Found Deceased CA - Juliani Cardenas, 4, Patterson, 18 January 2011 - #2

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I've followed along pretty closely and don't remember reading about a waitress so I tend to agree with darlin gal, I think it was meant to be witness.


~jmo~
 
I just can't imagine deliberately choosing this as a method to kill oneself. I don't buy it.
 
belimom said:
I just read that full article and noticed two things I didn't know before (bbm):



I see many JR's as RSO's but none that I can match up to this one. Would 'unlawful intercourse' qualify someone as a 'sex offender' or not?

I looked up the law online and California's 'unlawful intercourse' offense appears to be for statutory rape. But it sure does have some broad guidelines, such as outlining fines for a perp over the age of 21 and a 'victim' under the age of 16. But how much younger than 16 could the victim be and still have it be 'unlawful intercourse'? I didn't see a 'floor' for the age limit, kwim?

Anyone have any better knowledge of this law?

California Penal Code: Section 261.5 Unlawful Sexual Intercourse
http://www.sexlaws.org/california_statutory_rape_laws
Click to expand...

Not sure about the charges, but the part about him going to the house Monday and hanging around the school Tuesday leads me to believe the entire thing was premeditated. If he had the wherewithal to premeditate the kidnapping, I wonder if he had enough forethought to set up a hiding place?
 
quoting sorta. the farmer and the waitness.................. grrrrrrr. could have been a typo, but there was talk before about him ordering a pop I think. that is a bad chat line, its hard to read what they are saying vs what they are cussing:)
 
I would like to know if the car was in neutral or drive when it was found.
And I agree with Meagain about choosing drowning as his method.

Could he be holding her son as a bargaining tool to try to get his baby from her?

I understand anyone in their right mind would know they could not get away with this, but IMO he is not in his right mind.
 
Why would mom be with a guy like this in the first place???
geez, another mom puts child in harm's way.........
I feel so bad for her, but women THINK before you date!
Esp a criminal and if you have a child!
 
belimom said:
Something I was wondering is that maybe he had planned on jumping out of the car and escaping.... Two windows were down - they didn't say 'broken', they said 'down' - like he had them rolled down. Considering he had abducted little Juliani, I doubt he was buckled into a carseat or anything. So may he was holding him so he wouldn't get out of the car after being abducted, and IF he planned on ditching the car to scare the mom and then go hide or try to go somewhere like Mexico, then maybe he had Juliani in his lap so they could get out? Then when they hit the water, maybe the force of the water prevented them from getting out, or they did get out on their own but just couldn't surface or get out.

I still think this was a murder-suicide, but the windows being down have me stumped. So I'm trying to think outside the box about what could have taken place.
Click to expand...

Well if I was planning on suicide by driving a car into the canal I would have the car windows down so that the car would sink faster and make my death a bit quicker.
 
lonetraveler said:
Well if I was planning on suicide by driving a car into the canal I would have the car windows down so that the car would sink faster and make my death a bit quicker.
Click to expand...

That was kind of my take on it too, and that he didn't expect that they'd get sucked out the windows.
 
lonetraveler said:
Well if I was planning on suicide by driving a car into the canal I would have the car windows down so that the car would sink faster and make my death a bit quicker.
Click to expand...

I used to have a fear of being trapped under water in a vehicle with all electric windows/locks. I went through a stage about 15 years ago where I would roll down my windows before going over big bridges, just in case. Then I progressed to where having my hand on the window control button was enough (so I could let it down as I went falling through the air - LOL!). Now I laugh about all of that, but it was a real fear for awhile.

That's what made me think of him letting the windows down before going in.

Personally, I think they're both in the canal. :(
 
belimom said:
I used to have a fear of being trapped under water in a vehicle with all electric windows/locks. I went through a stage about 15 years ago where I would roll down my windows before going over big bridges, just in case. Then I progressed to where having my hand on the window control button was enough (so I could let it down as I went falling through the air - LOL!). Now I laugh about all of that, but it was a real fear for awhile.

That's what made me think of him letting the windows down before going in.

Personally, I think they're both in the canal. :(
Click to expand...

LOL belimom I have one of those tools in the side pocket of my car door that one can use to cut the seatbelt & break the window!
 
Rhyme & Reason said:
LOL belimom I have one of those tools in the side pocket of my car door that one can use to cut the seatbelt & break the window!
Click to expand...

Oh I have one, too. And I have given them all to my family for Christmas presents... ;)

The funny thing is: DH burst out laughing when I gave him one, as he has a soft-top Jeep Wrangler.
 
lonetraveler said:
Well if I was planning on suicide by driving a car into the canal I would have the car windows down so that the car would sink faster and make my death a bit quicker.
Click to expand...

If I was trying to hide from LE I would not want them to find my car thingking I was not in it so I would roll the windows down and try to sink it fast so witnesses did not see it go down.

I hope that is what jose is thinking as well. I am praying Tabitha is correct in not thinking Jose could cause harm to her son.
 
In the past, he has been charged with unlawful sexual intercourse and drunken driving, and he was convicted of manslaughter in 1999, Singh said.

http://www.pattersonirrigator.com/v...s-arms?instance=secondary_stories_left_column

I think this is the distinction here. He was CHARGED with unlawful sexual intercourse, it doesn't say he was convicted. It does say he was CONVICTED of manslaughter.

Yes, statutory would qualify for registration. It could have been long enough that he doesn't need to register anymore.

There is also always the chance it could have been bargained down but it'd be tough to plead it down enough to not require registration.


belimom said:
I just read that full article and noticed two things I didn't know before (bbm):

I see many JR's as RSO's but none that I can match up to this one. Would 'unlawful intercourse' qualify someone as a 'sex offender' or not?

I looked up the law online and California's 'unlawful intercourse' offense appears to be for statutory rape. But it sure does have some broad guidelines, such as outlining fines for a perp over the age of 21 and a 'victim' under the age of 16. But how much younger than 16 could the victim be and still have it be 'unlawful intercourse'? I didn't see a 'floor' for the age limit, kwim?

Anyone have any better knowledge of this law?

California Penal Code: Section 261.5 Unlawful Sexual Intercourse
http://www.sexlaws.org/california_statutory_rape_laws
Click to expand...
 
Does anyone know if searching will resume today or tomorrow, thanks.
 
On HLN NEWS this morning, a diver said that nothing was found at the end of the canal.
I guess they will keep looking, but my understanding that the dive search is over.
Not to be mean but wouldn't both bodies float to top if they are in the canal?
The diver said the cars would be the objects that would keep a body under.
Now cars are all removed.
 
passionflower said:
On HLN NEWS this morning, a diver said that nothing was found at the end of the canal.
I guess they will keep looking, but my understanding that the dive search is over.
Not to be mean but wouldn't both bodies float to top if they are in the canal?
The diver said the cars would be the objects that would keep a body under.
Now cars are all removed.
Click to expand...

Because of the water temperature, LE estimated that it would take approximately 14 days for a body to reach the surface, so they have to wait a bit longer to determine if that will happen.
 
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