NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #20

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There was something that I personally did do about six months after Steven was missing. I personally researched the neighborhood to see if there was anyone on Evening Lights who had any kind of employment agency and there was one house that did place people for some kind of technical jobs. I got the phone number of the person on Evening Lights and called them. I asked a couple of questions about employment and the man became immediately defensive and suspicious. He sounded so upset that I ended the call, and unfortunately I did not keep the information on the person whom I spoke with, but I could probably look it up again and find out. I wonder if the police spoke to them. From the best of my memory the man lived at the end of Evening Lights and specialized in placing technical people in a specific area of employment. He absolutely did not sound like he was over 55 either. Souned much younger like maybe 30.

Kelly

Seriously? Did you notify LE about this encounter? Seems it would be important. You don't remember the name of this individual? The address? Phone number?

I'm curious how you wouldn't think this might have been important to the investigation.
 
Jobu - thanks for your insights and welcome to Steven's thread!

I have always been a proponent of the "walk-away" theory, just based on what was happening (or not happening) in Steven's life when he went missing. Some of us here have explored the underground world and, if I'm not mistaken, laytonian remains in contact with someone who has connections to that world. It has been argued that even the homeless would turn up on the radar somewhere after this length of time. I'm not so sure I agree.

That said, I have to take issue with some of your Vegas observations, having lived here for 36 years. I also worked at the MGM Grand for 17 years and can tell you that the public parking garage does not have manned security booths nor would it be possible to access a "VIP" parking area there. In addition, there are literally thousands of public places to park a car here for free and without risk of being towed. A residential neighborhood in a retirement community on the farthest southeast side of town isn't the most logical, no matter how you look at it. Heading anywhere, from that point, on foot would have been quite a hike.

I'm quite sure the seedy characters your friends came across are plentiful in Vegas, though I'm happy to say, I have not met them. But the very fact that they do exist causes me to question why someone would have to "lure" a nice Mormon boy from Utah here for anything; and that has always been one of the reasons I find it difficult to get on board with the "lured for murder" theory.

IDK, I still question everything about this case, everyday. So many possibilities. :banghead::banghead::banghead:


I can see that there are some people who think that Steven walked away and may have ended up homeless. I am not a proponent of that at all. One of the reasons that I am not is that I had direct experience with street people and homeless when my sister became hooked on crystal meth for years. It was a total nightmare in that she brought her homeless friends over to my parents house who in turn stole from my parents. Thankfully she is clean and sober now and has been for 10 years.

However, the truth ist that most of the people who are homeless are either drug addicted or are alcoholics and the severe mentally ill. That is not to say that there are just average people who end up down on their luck and end up on the street but they tend to be on the street temporarily and get back on their feet or have the wherewithall to seek out services for help.

I get back to the fact that it is exceedingly difficult to stay completely under the radar. Does that mean that the the exact location of someone on the streets can be pinpointed? No it doesn't but it does mean that if someone is actively trying to confirm whether a person is still alive, then even a total homeless person will leave some kind of a trail even if that means that the exact location cannot be found. You could still with reasonable certainty in most cases confirm that they are alive somewhere, even if it is within in a couple of weeks of their last known location.

Steven Koecher was obviously going through some trying times attempting to find employment and behind on the rent, but in this economy and the fact that things got so bad for awhile, this was pretty common for many people.

Now some people will completely break down over financial problems and others handle it better. Steven Koecher's personality doesn't fit into the person who would either walk away, or become homeless. I mean anything is possible, but the probability is not very likely.

Finally it is not against the law to walk away as an adult, so to me it makes absolutely no sense that if he was leaving that he would just abandon his car when using a car makes traveling and moving around so much easier. If he walked away he knows that he would not be breaking the law,so there is no logical explanation in not using one's car to get away. I mean why make it so hard on yourself, it makes no sense.

Again anything is possible but it is best to look at probabilities and not possibilities.

Although I don't know Steven Koecher, never met the man he has no characteristics that would make one conclude that he is on the streets. He was not on drugs, he is not an alcoholic, he is not mentally ill, maybe stressed out a bit but not mentally ill. He also returned phone calls and said he would be back. These are not behaviors of someone who willfuly disappears.

Kelly
 
Seriously? Did you notify LE about this encounter? Seems it would be important. You don't remember the name of this individual? The address? Phone number?

I'm curious how you wouldn't think this might have been important to the investigation.



Fairy, I emailed the private eye about it when it happned and I did not get a response from him other than to say that he would check it out. I don't remember the exact address, but I believe the person whom I spoke to lived on Evening Lights at the very end of the street. The man whom I spoke to didn't sound like he was over 55 and I only asked some very generic questions and he became agitated and suspicious immediately. That has kind of always bugged me but I figured he may have thought that it was some kind of sales call or something.

But there is no doubt that the man who answered the phone sound annoyed and began sounding suspicious immediately. I promise I am telling the truth and I did notify the P.I. by the name of Craig (?) at the time.

I believe that I posted that indident on here too and to the best of my knowledge I don't think it caused anyone to ring any bells.

I can try and find the address again. The information on Google did say that the people at that residence did do some kind of employment recruiting and taht caught my eye.

I will go back on google and see if I can remember and find the address.

Sincerly,

Kelly
 
I can see that there are some people who think that Steven walked away and may have ended up homeless. I am not a proponent of that at all. One of the reasons that I am not is that I had direct experience with street people and homeless when my sister became hooked on crystal meth for years. It was a total nightmare in that she brought her homeless friends over to my parents house who in turn stole from my parents. Thankfully she is clean and sober now and has been for 10 years.

However, the truth ist that most of the people who are homeless are either drug addicted or are alcoholics and the severe mentally ill. That is not to say that there are just average people who end up down on their luck and end up on the street but they tend to be on the street temporarily and get back on their feet or have the wherewithall to seek out services for help.

I get back to the fact that it is exceedingly difficult to stay completely under the radar. Does that mean that the the exact location of someone on the streets can be pinpointed? No it doesn't but it does mean that if someone is actively trying to confirm whether a person is still alive, then even a total homeless person will leave some kind of a trail even if that means that the exact location cannot be found. You could still with reasonable certainty in most cases confirm that they are alive somewhere, even if it is within in a couple of weeks of their last known location.

Steven Koecher was obviously going through some trying times attempting to find employment and behind on the rent, but in this economy and the fact that things got so bad for awhile, this was pretty common for many people.

Now some people will completely break down over financial problems and others handle it better. Steven Koecher's personality doesn't fit into the person who would either walk away, or become homeless. I mean anything is possible, but the probability is not very likely.

Finally it is not against the law to walk away as an adult, so to me it makes absolutely no sense that if he was leaving that he would just abandon his car when using a car makes traveling and moving around so much easier. If he walked away he knows that he would not be breaking the law,so there is no logical explanation in not using one's car to get away. I mean why make it so hard on yourself, it makes no sense.

Again anything is possible but it is best to look at probabilities and not possibilities.

Although I don't know Steven Koecher, never met the man he has no characteristics that would make one conclude that he is on the streets. He was not on drugs, he is not an alcoholic, he is not mentally ill, maybe stressed out a bit but not mentally ill. He also returned phone calls and said he would be back. These are not behaviors of someone who willfuly disappears.

Kelly

So your theory is......what?
 
Fairy,

It has been awhile, does the timeline have a copy of the map of the street evening lights? I think that is how I first found the information. If I can find it again, I will be more than happy to email the information to you or call the police and give it to them.

Please keep in mind that the police were asking that any information be forwarded to the P.I. at the time.



Kelly
 
So your theory is......what?

I don't have theory per se, but I would say that the probablity is that Steven met with foul play and is no longer with us.

I'm sorry, I hope I am wrong, I really do, but I doubt it.

Kelly
 
Fairy, I emailed the private eye about it when it happned and I did not get a response from him other than to say that he would check it out. I don't remember the exact address, but I believe the person whom I spoke to lived on Evening Lights at the very end of the street. The man whom I spoke to didn't sound like he was over 55 and I only asked some very generic questions and he became agitated and suspicious immediately. That has kind of always bugged me but I figured he may have thought that it was some kind of sales call or something.

But there is no doubt that the man who answered the phone sound annoyed and began sounding suspicious immediately. I promise I am telling the truth and I did notify the P.I. by the name of Craig (?) at the time.

I believe that I posted that indident on here too and to the best of my knowledge I don't think it caused anyone to ring any bells.

I can try and find the address again. The information on Google did say that the people at that residence did do some kind of employment recruiting and taht caught my eye.

I will go back on google and see if I can remember and find the address.

Sincerly,

Kelly

No, I don't believe I have seen this information before. I'm not sure why you would notify the PI rather than LE???
 
Thanks. Like I said not real familar with that part of town. Usually stay in Summerlin. Actually going there next Friday for a few days.

Where the car was found, where the pings lead up to Russell/US 95 the most direct route would have had to Anthem Pkwy to the belt way and then up Veterans Hwy if I am looking at the map correctly. That would be a longway to walk. Are there buses on Anthem Pkwy? Someone could have picked him up also.

No buses on Sunday, and the nearest bus stop was on Eastern Ave.

There are also no bus routes on Anthem Parkway. The buses do not go further south than the last stop on Eastern.

CLICK HERE for RTC map.
 
Jobu, I had an admin weigh in on this tool-you can reference the parcel of land, such as T-12, but we cannot reference this is John Smith's property at T-12....unless they have been named in MSM or a verified source as a person of interest in the case.

Is that helpful?

When I said I can't post the the GIS tip in the tips area of the forum I meant I literally can not due to permissions. Perhaps I need a higher post count. I don't care really who puts it there, or if it should even be there, just wanted sleuthers to have access to as many tools as possible and figured I could share what I knew and didn't see already in that section.
 
Jobu - thanks for your insights and welcome to Steven's thread!

I have always been a proponent of the "walk-away" theory, just based on what was happening (or not happening) in Steven's life when he went missing. Some of us here have explored the underground world and, if I'm not mistaken, laytonian remains in contact with someone who has connections to that world. It has been argued that even the homeless would turn up on the radar somewhere after this length of time. I'm not so sure I agree.

That said, I have to take issue with some of your Vegas observations, having lived here for 36 years. I also worked at the MGM Grand for 17 years and can tell you that the public parking garage does not have manned security booths nor would it be possible to access a "VIP" parking area there. In addition, there are literally thousands of public places to park a car here for free and without risk of being towed. A residential neighborhood in a retirement community on the farthest southeast side of town isn't the most logical, no matter how you look at it. Heading anywhere, from that point, on foot would have been quite a hike.

I'm quite sure the seedy characters your friends came across are plentiful in Vegas, though I'm happy to say, I have not met them. But the very fact that they do exist causes me to question why someone would have to "lure" a nice Mormon boy from Utah here for anything; and that has always been one of the reasons I find it difficult to get on board with the "lured for murder" theory.

IDK, I still question everything about this case, everyday. So many possibilities. :banghead::banghead::banghead:

It was 16 years ago, don't know why we had so much trouble finding parking, but perhaps it was because we were looking around the strip and the old town area. As far as the parking structure. I could be wrong about it being the MGM but if memory serves it was, perhaps there is an employee lot or it was just another hotel. I was the driver and we went into a parking garage, up to the top level. I'd say the whole place was about 8 levels high maybe 10. Around 2-3 levels from the top there was a little booth with a guy in it, who had his head down, he was on the left as we passed. I slowed the car and when he didn't look up I kept going. Security was not playing. When I awoke all the cops/guards surrounding the car had guns drawn, I even remember looking into my rear view and looking down a barrel. The concern was who let us in, and what the hell we were doing up there. They hard a very hard time believing we just drove up there to sleep for a few hours. It took a long time to convince them. Once the guns were gone it was semi comical because we had really just driven up there.

I'm sure you know the area better than I. My visit was brief. I think the homeless can remain unknown for long periods of time. If they find a nice squat, keep their nose clean and a good source of food there is no reason anyone will see them. I am not sure if Steven had the common sense to adjust to life in the streets but anyone can learn, and we all have angels on our shoulders. Perhaps he will just reappear one day.

Thanks for all the work on the FAQ and time line sections folks. This would have been overwhelming to catch up on this case without it.
 
I keep coming back to check on Steven. You guys are continuing to do a great job sleuthing this case. How I wish he could be located.....
 
I'm curious, hollyblue, with the information we have, what do you feel has not been sleuthed here? There are 20 threads and a meticulously constructed timeline related to Steven and based on what has been learned in the past 16 + months. Other than Steven, what do you feel is missing?

I replied to their post of wanting justice for "who" did this to SK. A timeline doesn't tell you who....or why. The sleuthing stopped at "someone" in the thoughts of those who believe harm came to him simply because there is no evidence.

For those that think he has been harmed...do they have a person in mind... have they tried to connect them to the timeline?
 
Fairy,

It has been awhile, does the timeline have a copy of the map of the street evening lights? I think that is how I first found the information. If I can find it again, I will be more than happy to email the information to you or call the police and give it to them.

Please keep in mind that the police were asking that any information be forwarded to the P.I. at the time.

Kelly

What??? I don't remember this at all. Do you have a link where LE stated this? His flyers and any articles on his disappearance listing contact info for tips were LE numbers and crime stoppers...and one article that I know of saying tips could be given to his FB...with the idea that it would anonymous...totally ridiculous because the IP addy could be traced.
 
I don't have theory per se, but I would say that the probablity is that Steven met with foul play and is no longer with us.

I'm sorry, I hope I am wrong, I really do, but I doubt it.

Kelly

Can you tell us the exact conversation? What you asked and this man's reply? What questions made him upset?
 
Sophieness your correction was not actually a correction. Based upon the numbers you cited, males are killed more often by an individual of undetermined association, 37%, with acquaintance murders occurring second to that at 35%.

As far as my reference to volitle relationships, you presumed that I meant intimate relationships. The only quality I ascribed to this risk factor was a relationship of any making that had potentially violent characteristics. This is not limited to romantic relationships but can include all types of relationsips, i.e. familial, business, recreational, social, etc.

With regards to the fatalities caused by coconuts, the rebuttal provided didn't compare apples to apples. It didn't address the statistical occurrence of fatalities attributed to serial killers vs. that of fatalities cause by dropping coconuts.

Your reference to "40%" of murders go unsolved is likely correct. I've been in attendance at training conferences where studies have been presented that reflect that approximately only 17-42% of all crime (property and violent) are solved and successfully prosecuted. However, with that being said, better training of investigators and advancements in technology should gradually start to improve the successful closure rate.

And lastly, the fact that taxi cab drivers are at greatest risk for homicide doesn't correct anything that I put forth in my post. If you were demonstrating that wealth or monetary reasons for possible homicide were invalid based upon the murder rate by occupation, that also isn't quite reflective of what I was stating.

Taxi drivers typically will have cash on hand, their career is transient in nature, they travel to high risk areas, they can have passengers who may have a high level of dangerousness or criminality, and taxi drivers work at all hours of the day and night. All of these factors would put taxi drivers at an elevated risk for opportunistic crimes, including murder.

When factoring money as a possible motive for homicide, SK cannot be compared to a taxi driver because he didn't have all of these same risk factors. He didn't have much money and wouldn't be expected to be carrying around large sums of cash, he didn't travel to high crime areas, he wasn't providing services to a possible criminal population, and he didn't work at all hours of the day and night. The other consideration for money driven murder is if someone would have benefitted monetarily from SK's death, which there wasn't or at least doesn't appear to be.

I stand by my original evaluation and assertions, though I do appreciate your willingness to utilize other resources and statistics. Research is almost always fruitful and beneficial in some way. One of the greatest mistakes that I have observed is when people are quick to come to conclusions or presumptions rather than objectively and carefully considering what is actually presented.

where did you prove your coconut link? the researcher is saying, those deaths amount to know more than a few worldwide over the course of years. so yes, I disagree, especially considering you lumped as serial killers anyone who kills for a sexual reason or kills randomly for the pleasure of killing.

I'm not saying wealth is never a factor in murder, it oftentimes is. what I am saying is you act like bc steven had little money, that money could not possibly be a motive, that someone would not kill him in an attempt to rob him etc. and I disagree. it happens all the time where people get killed for twenty bucks. I don't think this is why he disappeared or was killed, but who are we to say? if he wasn't killed in that neighborhood it is a possibility. we don't even know what he was doing in vegas. not a high crime neighborhood, but a very high crime general area.

most familes and friends of murder victims I have read about usually say what you said about steven- this person had no known enemies, I don't know how this could have happened. it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I have demonstrated, I believe, that it happens IMO more than willfull disappearances when you take into account the ninety percent of missing persons are found. no one has to agree with me, I'm glad all theories are being explored. but I don't want this one to be discounted based on "logic" when clearly most of the facts of stevens actions in his last few days are not even known.
 
I looked closely at it and had trouble discerning whether it was a scar or just the way his hair was combed. It looked too perfect to be hair/part though. Good eye. On another note, wow, that is one sad song he's singing. I felt like crying as I was listening to it. How well did anyone know Stephen? Clearly he is a good person and a kind and loving heart. What was he struggling with, I wonder? Did he need help for depression and not get it? I feel very sad each time I see his face; I can only imagine the suffering his family has been going through.
 
I looked closely at it and had trouble discerning whether it was a scar or just the way his hair was combed. It looked too perfect to be hair/part though. Good eye. On another note, wow, that is one sad song he's singing. I felt like crying as I was listening to it. How well did anyone know Stephen? Clearly he is a good person and a kind and loving heart. What was he struggling with, I wonder? Did he need help for depression and not get it? I feel very sad each time I see his face; I can only imagine the suffering his family has been going through.

His voice and the melody reminds me of Lennon in some ways.

Thanks for your opinion. I thought his hair was too short in that pic for parting and the line seems too thin for a part also; but, we have never heard from family that he had a scar here. It would definitely be an identifiable scar..if true. Also, could explain some behaviors if the injury was a serious one; maybe calling for a plate? IMO.

In early weeks of his case, didn't the parents have him catagorized as "endangered" to get LE to do some searching? Seems I remember something about that. Anyone?
 
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