Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #8

[Asker]

I've also read that the smell of a decomposing human body permeates clothings, hair and skin just from being near. That it takes several washes to get the smell out of clothing. I've heard LE who have come into contact with a decomposing body in the liquid stage say that. Let's just say if just standing near a decomposing body your hair and skin absorb the smell, why not a trunk liner? A trunk has minimal air circulation and it'd be harder to clean up?

It's true that you never get the smell of decomp out of anything. They had to tear down the apartment building where Jeffrey Dahmer lived and was killing and decomposing his victims for that very reason. To date (18 years later) nothing has been built on that land.

 

[GeekyGirl]

It's true that you never get the smell of decomp out of anything. They had to tear down the apartment building where Jeffrey Dahmer lived and was killing and decomposing his victims for that very reason. To date (18 years later) nothing has been built on that land.

I tried to find a reference for this fact, but a quick search came up empty. A few articles did seem to indicate the building was torn down to respect the victims. Do you have a link?

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/11/17/u...uilding-where-dahmer-kept-victims.html?src=pm

 

[Asker]

My theory is that the abuse of Caylee was long term and started when she was very young. I believe that at first Casey was able to get Xanax either from her parents' medicine chest or from friends...either they gave some to her or more likely she was stealing if from them. Perhaps Casey stole money to buy Xanax off of friends or I guess there are people who sell it on the street. The Xanax was used to sedate Caylee which in itself would be very dangerous. I only need a very small dose for sleep purposes and I have no idea what an infant/toddler/child would need or what would be too much.

Anyway this is where Zanny the Nanny came from. It was Casey's SICK way of doing a play on words. Xanax was in essence babysitting for Caylee. Perhaps at first she was doing this when she went to party's and had to take Caylee along because Cindy wouldn't babysit and during those times she dumped Caylee in a bedroom or on a sofa.

As time went on money perhaps got tighter for Casey and she couldn't buy the Xanax or steal it...perhaps her friends or parents stopped getting prescriptions for it. So that is when she took up cooking chloroform on the kitchen stove. The ingredients were all free to her (I've looked them up). Almost every home would have most of the ingredients and since they had a swimming pool she had the schocking solution available to her for free too.

At the same time Caylee was getting bigger and more aware of what her mother was doing and better able to tell all about it at home so having her at parties wasn't working so well anymore. Also that skeezy Tony L. made it clear he didn't want Caylee around his apartment at all and Casey seemed to need to have sex with him like the rest of us need air. So I think she came up with new arrangements that would work for getting Caylee out of the way when Casey was at clubs, parties, and having sex dates. I think she started using the chloroform on Caylee at night and putting her in the trunk of the car when she was "out" (asleep). It had to be the trunk because to leave her in the passenger part of the car would risk Caylee being kidnapped or the police being called.

One problem...what happens when a toddler wakes up in a dark and unfamiliar place all alone? They scream like crazy. Hence, the duct tape on the mouth for an extra "measure" of security for Casey. Casey believes she is smarter than the average bear and wiser than God so she would have considered this to be a "perfect" plan.

However, I have talked to an elderly lady who grew up in India and she said she used to be given chloroform there when she was young and had surgeries and the chloroform always made her very sick when she was coming out of it to the point that she usually vomited. Now, suppose duct tapped Caylee votmited...she would likely either choke on the vomit or aspirate it into her lungs. But we can't know any of this because skeletonized remains will never let us know precisely how Caylee died but it very well could have happened in this manner.

So suppose that Casey gets back to the trunk after she's done partying, clubbing, having sex or what ever and is surprised to find that Caylee is dead but she certainly isn't going to call the police or her parents. This is the start of the 31 day odyssey and the lie after lie after lie.

I don't think the body was in the car very long because little decomp residue is seen there. The yard and the playhouse is more likely the place because of the dog hits and the fact that grass won't grow there now but the Anthony's have a dog and ANY dog will smell dead stuff whether it is from people or from other animals. My dogs do and neither are trained....it is just natural to dogs.

So I don't think Caylee was in that yard any longer than it took Lazy Casey to realize it was "too hard" to dig a hole amongst the bamboo shoots. My feeling is the body was moved around and back and forth several times over before Casey pitched that poor baby's remains into that overgrown garbage hole. That's my opinion anyway.

 

[Nova]

I simply cannot get my mind around dosing a 2-year-old with chloroform or putting duct tape over her mouth.

I'm not saying Casey Anthony didn't do those things. I'm just saying I can't imagine myself doing it to any child, much less my own.

 

[DeadCat]

...she began to devise her methodical plan to remove Caylee from her life and from the life of her parents as well.



IMO

I'm with you, Ocean Blue. I think it was premeditated. Has anyone presented the theory that ICA knew she'd either be caught or confronted on Caylee's 3rd Birthday? Maybe she figured CA and GA would demand to be a part of her birthday celebration so at that point she'd have to have a REALLY good story. Anyway, based on the following: "Diary of DAYS" , "my baby's been missing for **31 DAYS**", and Timer55 password story (55 days until Caylee's bday), I wonder whether her partying and check cashing wasn't known by her to be temporary.

And, that maybe she was challenging her mom to finally CALL her on something. When she states, "Really, you don't know my involvement?" during the jail visit, it's (to me) almost like a cry for "help" or rather acknowledgement that all is not the pretty facade that this family tried to maintain.

 

[cloud9]

Remember when the tow truck driver took GA to the car and they opened the trunk, there were many many flies that came out. Also, in spite of the cleanup of the trunk back at the A's home, the stain is still there enough to reveal the shape of the body of a child under the fluoroscopic light. The car still had the odor two years later. She was there for 3 to 5 days as testified to by the professionals.

Exactly. And GA said he could hear maggots munching.

 

[The Shoat]

On Father's day night as Caylee slept next to her, she smothered her and placed tape over her mouth...between texts and calls from TL.

ITA - I never believed that GA saw Caylee on 6/16. I always thought the death ocurred on the night of 6/15. I think KC left the house in a rage over the fight, texted Tony who reiterated that Caylee was not welcome. With no place to go and hating Caylee more than ever -- she went back home and killed her.

I never before thought that it happened in KC's bed -- but, yes, I can see her with Caylee, caged in there, her rage building until she killed her.

 

[GeekyGirl]

I'm with you, Ocean Blue. I think it was premeditated. Has anyone presented the theory that ICA knew she'd either be caught or confronted on Caylee's 3rd Birthday? Maybe she figured CA and GA would demand to be a part of her birthday celebration so at that point she'd have to have a REALLY good story. Anyway, based on the following: "Diary of DAYS" , "my baby's been missing for **31 DAYS**", and Timer55 password story (55 days until Caylee's bday), I wonder whether her partying and check cashing wasn't known by her to be temporary.

And, that maybe she was challenging her mom to finally CALL her on something. When she states, "Really, you don't know my involvement?" during the jail visit, it's (to me) almost like a cry for "help" or rather acknowledgement that all is not the pretty facade that this family tried to maintain.

Interesting points. IIRC I've read other theories that point to the timer55 thing being more likely to be about the trip to Puerto Rico, but I could be wrong. I can't remember offhand what day the password changed. I can't get past the feeling that we're giving Casey too much credit for being a good planner. IMO she seems to fly by the seat of her pants, making up lies to cover up other lies. I do think maybe she was starting to unravel towards the end of the 31 days, partying harder, engaging in riskier behavior (stealing from a friend as opposed to family). She may very well have being challenging her mother to call her out. As always, MOO.

 

[GeekyGirl]

I've tried and tried and tried to make all the evidence and facts work out a plausible scenario that I like, but it just doesn't work. I don't like any of them.

My mind just does not want to go to cold calculated, duct tape to the face murder. I keep going over every kind of accidental theory I can such as drowning in the pool, accidental OD from chloroform or Xanax, I even thought for a while that she backed in the garage with a sleeping Caylee in the car and thought because it was so hot out, she'd let the car run for air conditioning and accidentally killed her with carbon monoxide and when she found an overheated Caylee, she plunged her into the pool, but it was too late, she pulled her out and layed her in the back yard, thus the dog hits. I could go on and on, but they never sit well with me.

I really really tried to find a plausible scenario. Three years later, I still can't find anything accidental to fit. It ALL comes back to the duct tape.

The only thing that works for me, is a very angry Casey, either because of the fight with CA or because she called all kinds of people the afternoon of the 16th and not one of those so called people who love her will take Caylee so she could be with Tone that night. I think this was a slow boiling rage that built over the almost 3 years of Caylee's life.

I think she just flipped a switch and said "oh ya, all you so and so's who think Caylee is so sweet and just love her, where are you when "I" want to go out and do something for myself. Nobody wants to help ME when I want to do something. It's all about Caylee Caylee Caylee. Well if nobody will babysit then FINE!" I think she very calmly and quickly, went in to the garage, grabbed the duct tape, covered her mouth so there would be no noise, maybe chloroformed her first. I do have my suspicions that chloroform may be a red herring here. She may have made some and it may have leaked or spilled in her trunk or maybe she used it on Caylee, not sure, but for me the key piece is the duct tape. I think she very calmly tossed her in the trunk so as not to see or hear. Out of sight, out of mind, and went on her date with Tone.

I honestly do not believe that there was ever a plan to stage a kidnapping or say the nanny did it. I believe she just did it on the spur of the moment. I think she fantasized what life would be like without Caylee and Tone wanted boys anyway, so all those things that made Caylee a noose around ICA neck came to a peak at that time. CA threatening a custody fight, her new friends, Tone, it just peaked and without thinking it through she did it.

I think that telling people in the begining that Caylee was with the Nanny was just a way to explain her absence. I really don't think she thought more than a day at a time. She just kept hedging her parents, trying to deal with each thing that cropped up, like the smell in the car and so on.

The idea of the Nanny came to her over the month of repeating again and again that the Nanny had her. Who better to blame her disappearance on than the Nanny who supposedly had her all this time anyway. It was just an extension to her lie that was already in place. Caylee was with Zanny.

I don't believe there was alot of thought or planning, I think she just did it and went day by day, knowing all the while that something was gonna give, so she enjoyed every second she had before it all hit the fan. I firmly believe that she would never have reported her missing and that she was starting to formulate a plan on how to get away from her parents so they would never know Caylee was missing. I think she was going to move to California to Mark Hawkins, but she really really liked Tone so kept staying just a little longer, just a little longer thinking soon, I'll figure it all out soon, but then she got caught.

I do believe she is a sociopath and I believe that the A's have been through hell with her. So much so that they just "let sleeping dogs lie" If she wasn't hurting them or Caylee and things were running smoothly they just turned a blind eye to her "job" and other things they suspected were lies. I have no sympathy for the A's because they added the fuel for Casey's fire, but living with a true Sociopath is punishment enough. Unless you've had the distinct experience of dealing with a sociopath it's hard to understand. You do NOT want to rock the boat, it's like walking on eggshells. You try and keep the peace at all costs. Unfortunately for the A's the cost was Caylee.

JMOO, sorry it was so long. I've spent 3 years thinking about this and as much as all these long twisty theories have gone through my mind. I think it was just very simple and unplanned. I honestly think people are disecting it too much and are reading way to much into the most minute thing. Occam's Razor.

I've been reading this over and over. I keep coming back to it, because I think you're right, it's the simplest explanation that takes all of the evidence into account, and is consistent with what we know about Casey's behavior. You summed it perfectly, Occam's Razor.That being said, I still tend to think the chloroform is a red herring. I'm not quite to the moral certainty stage, but I think this as close to the truth as we may ever get. I don't know that I would reach this conclusion if I were a juror, but I appreciate all the thought that went into your post, because although it gave me nightmares, it's helped to settle my mind a bit.

 

[New1]

I just never have bought the Chloroform and duct tape theory of how Caylee died. For one thing, Chloroform is not a very accessible chemical and is not easily and quickly made. There are a lot more accessible drugs to put a child to sleep with than using Chloroform. I don't see Casey going to all that trouble to make her own Chloroform when something else would have been easier and quicker to obtain and would have kept Caylee asleep just as long if she was using the trunk of her car as a babysitter. I read that Chloroform can be used for dry cleaning to remove stains. I believe those high levels of Chloroform were in the trunk because of someone trying to clean the decomposition stains, not for putting Caylee to sleep if, in fact, they were as high as the state claims. Chloroform dissipates rapidly, and if Casey used it to put Caylee to sleep, and she died from it on June 16th, would the levels of Chloroform still be that high after a month of dissipation? Someone cleaned that stain with Chloroform to the point that it became "a unidentifiable stain" instead of a stain identifiable as decomposition. It didn't take the smell of decomposition out, but it took out enough of the stain to make it unidentifiable and left a strong level of Chloroform. Too strong to have been in that trunk a month. :twocents:

 

[darnudes]

I've been working on this theory for a while and would like to hear opinions on it. I'm not going to include every detail for the whole day but the ones I think are important.

June 16

8.03am - IM whiteplayboi - Casey states she is moving into her house at the end of the mouth (she already told him 4 days ago the house/apt will at Andover or around her parents place)

So far this is the story as normal, moving out into a place with Amy and Caylee at the end of the mouth.

11.47pm - Tony calls Casey 19mins - Casey's made up her mind that she's staying at Tony's and Caylee will never be coming home again.

12.50pm - Casey and Caylee leave the house
Casey has told her father that they will be staying overnight at Zany's.
Caylee's backpack(once recovered) contains no extra clothes and is found in the trunk.

12.53pm - Casey texts Tony
12.55pm - Tony texts Casey
1.00pm - Tony calls Casey 14mins

1.14pm End of call - Casey and Caylee are in the car somewhere, she could be driving but doubtful as no money for gas - Tony does not mention hearing Caylee on this phone call

1.26pm - Casey texts Jesse - I think Caylee was killed or chloroformed -before or after this text.

1.44pm - Casey calls Amy 36mins

2.20pm - End of Call - Casey and Caylee still in the car, Amy does not mention hearing Caylee on this phone call. If Casey parks car just down the street this is the approx time George is leaving and Casey sees him, ends call with Amy as she knows the coast is clear to go back to the house.

2.15pm-2.30pm - George is leaving the house

2.30pm - Casey must be back in the house as computer usage is high again - Did she duct tape Caylee to finish the job at this point, there really is no time to do that and also be on the computer.

2.52pm - Jesse calls Casey 12mins
This is the first time the story now changes and Casey's mother has changed her mind and it is now Casey that has to move out, tells Jesse she can't stay at home. There would only be one reason that Casey can no longer stay at home because Caylee is no longer alive or Casey has made the decision that she will finish Caylee off.

2.00pm-3.00pm - High computer usage, suggesting that Casey is in the house and on the computer.

3.04pm - End of call with Jesse
3.30pm - George calls the house
3.04pm - George calls Casey

3.35pm - Casey calls Tony 22sec

3.00pm-4.00pm - Low computer usage, suggesting that Casey is getting some stuff together and tidying house to make it look like she's not been there - there is time available here for her to duct tape Caylee - if there is no post mortem banding on the hair in the duct tape and Caylee was still alive when it was put on it would have to be on this day that she does that - if Casey had just chloroformed Caylee and left her in the car until 2pm the next day I believe Caylee would have been dead already by that point - Also Casey backs her car into the garage the next day so she knew that Caylee was dead in the back.

4.10pm - Casey calls George 34sec - Casey notices missed call on phone from George and she wants to know where George is and why is he calling.

4.11pm - 4.13pm - Casey calls Cindy 4 times - I suspect to find out where George is and is he on his way home.

4.14pm - Casey calls George 98secs - Casey is still trying to find out where he is.

4.14pm - Casey leaves the house and starts driving towards Tony's place

4.19pm - Casey calls Tony 1min

4.21 pm - Casey calls Jesse 2 times 75secs

4.25pm - Casey calls Cindy

6.31pm - Casey calls Cindy
6.32pm - Casey calls Cindy
6.32pm - Casey calls Home

7.06pm - Casey calls Home 83secs

Crisis averted

7.50pm - Casey and Tony at Blockbuster Video

I suspect it is George's call to the house and then to Casey that sets off the flurry of calls from 4.10pm. I think she tries to find out from Cindy why he is calling her then says what the hell and leaves the house at 4.14pm.
After she left house I think some panic may have sent and so there are numerous calls to set up alibis/stories and to let Jesse/Tony/Cindy know that all is good in Casey world.

- I think the doll was left in plain view in the car so that Casey had something there of Caylee's to show people.
- I think the backpack was tossed in the trunk because that would have looked suspicious without Caylee
- Thinking about Caylee's clothes and Casey's comment "they haven't even found her clothes yet" - I think Casey took off those well known clothes (and perhaps shoes) and put her in the ones less well known to Cindy, the big trouble tshirt and shorts (which may have been the sleeping clothes she kept in her trunk for when she and Caylee would stay at Ricardos) and I think Casey dumped the clothes somewhere, perhaps even in the dumpster at Amscot.

Amended due to feedback from Irisheyes, thank you

Quoting myself which is bad form, but I thought this might be relevant in light of Linda's comments in court today re 16 June and a timeline they will be presenting to the jury in their rebuttal case. Woohoo! Of course we were all hoping they would do this as it can be clearly shown that there is no way Caylee drowned in the swimming pool in the "early morning hours" as the defense stated.

My timeline did not concentrate on the early morning - so I will be updating this later with more information.

Finally, I am absolutely STUNNED!! that Baez did not break down the activity on the computer on this day to see that his clients "story" was bogus and could not possibly be true.

 

[darnudes]

Also, if anyone spots any errors could you please let me know? Thanks

 

[bookworm474]

I think that Casey Anthony has only told the truth twice in the last five years.

1. "OMG! I'm such a good liar."
2. "I'm a spiteful b*tch."

I believe once Cindy stopped Casey from robbing her bank accounts in March 2008 she began to devise her methodical plan to remove Caylee from her life and from the life of her parents as well.

She began to think of what method she would use and picked chloroform as the knockout chemical to render Caylee unconscious. The duct tape was used as the murder weapon to make sure Caylee could no longer take a breath of air ever again.

Her motives were two pronged imo.


Caylee was a burden that she did not want to carry any longer. Caylee was getting older and more verbal. Caylee was a threat to Casey because she held the secret to her mothers grandiose lies and faux life.

The hate for her mother was so vengeful and spiteful she would have never given Cindy the satisfaction of giving her full custody of Caylee. Making other people truly happy is not what Casey is all about. Her life consist of only one person who matters. Everyone else /was/is collateral damage.

The fight with Cindy the night before was the triggering factor that put her predefined master plan into action.

IMO

If George moved back into the house in March and Cindy closed her banking account, Casey would have two issues. Compare Casey's reaction in the trial when she had a meltdown because her mother did not look at her and went to George in the back of the court room, compare to what Casey would think or feel in March when George is back and the money is cut off.

See, Cindy chose George and I will bet that has been Casey's problem---wanting and needing to control her mother. I will bet that when a toddler, she was clingy. For Casey to show all that emotion in the trial about her mother's rejection, fake or not, it is a core theme in her mind, such as it is.

It helps others feel sorry for her, but it is still there and irrational.

If she can't have her mother totally, then does she look for a way to punish?

 

[Anais]

Exactly. And GA said he could hear maggots munching.

:sick:

 

[GiantPickle]

I would be OK with this if there weren't 84 hits to the How to Make Chloroform site.

I just never have bought the Chloroform and duct tape theory of how Caylee died. For one thing, Chloroform is not a very accessible chemical and is not easily and quickly made. There are a lot more accessible drugs to put a child to sleep with than using Chloroform. I don't see Casey going to all that trouble to make her own Chloroform when something else would have been easier and quicker to obtain and would have kept Caylee asleep just as long if she was using the trunk of her car as a babysitter. I read that Chloroform can be used for dry cleaning to remove stains. I believe those high levels of Chloroform were in the trunk because of someone trying to clean the decomposition stains, not for putting Caylee to sleep if, in fact, they were as high as the state claims. Chloroform dissipates rapidly, and if Casey used it to put Caylee to sleep, and she died from it on June 16th, would the levels of Chloroform still be that high after a month of dissipation? Someone cleaned that stain with Chloroform to the point that it became "a unidentifiable stain" instead of a stain identifiable as decomposition. It didn't take the smell of decomposition out, but it took out enough of the stain to make it unidentifiable and left a strong level of Chloroform. Too strong to have been in that trunk a month. :twocents:

 

[2door73chevy]

ICA has been in jail for 3 years, she's had a lot of time to tell the truth or come up with a better story than the one in JB's OS..If *you* can put yourself in her mind, what would you say happened?


This is my first thread....TIA

 

[Nova]

I just never have bought the Chloroform and duct tape theory of how Caylee died. For one thing, Chloroform is not a very accessible chemical and is not easily and quickly made. There are a lot more accessible drugs to put a child to sleep with than using Chloroform. I don't see Casey going to all that trouble to make her own Chloroform when something else would have been easier and quicker to obtain and would have kept Caylee asleep just as long if she was using the trunk of her car as a babysitter. I read that Chloroform can be used for dry cleaning to remove stains. I believe those high levels of Chloroform were in the trunk because of someone trying to clean the decomposition stains, not for putting Caylee to sleep if, in fact, they were as high as the state claims. Chloroform dissipates rapidly, and if Casey used it to put Caylee to sleep, and she died from it on June 16th, would the levels of Chloroform still be that high after a month of dissipation? Someone cleaned that stain with Chloroform to the point that it became "a unidentifiable stain" instead of a stain identifiable as decomposition. It didn't take the smell of decomposition out, but it took out enough of the stain to make it unidentifiable and left a strong level of Chloroform. Too strong to have been in that trunk a month. :twocents:

You may very well be right. And I'd probably agree 100% except that chloroform and duct tape are both associated with movie/TV kidnappings.

I know people say KC isn't a planner, but it's quite a coincidence that both chloroform and duct tape should be found in a case along with a fictitious kidnapping story.

 

[lovegrace21]

The TRUTH!!!!

(My first post as well)

 

[2door73chevy]

The TRUTH!!!!

(My first post as well)

I want her to tell the truth..I wonder, if the jury comes back with the DP vote, if she will blurt out the truth? One can only hope...

 

[mimmy03]

I would have told the truth so that I could live with myself and hopefully spare my life (plea deal). But b/c I believe she intentionally killed Caylee if *I* were dysfunctional ICA I would try to get off as lightly as possible so I would have claimed that she drowned accidently in the pool and staged it to look like a kidnapping for fear of how grandparents would react.