2011.07.01 Sidebar Thread (Trial Day Thirty-Three)

[Socprof]

If you want to get technical, I think ICA is more of a Sociopath than a Psychopath. She has no conscience or empathy with others. Not quite the same as that complete lack of emotions of the true psychopath. She can most certainly feel and show fear. But it will only be self centered fear. She is fearful she will be caught, convicted, sentenced. She is not fearful that her daughter is missing, or she may be hurting her father, etc. It's all self centered.

I disagree; I see psychopathy there. She hasn't shown fear during this trial; she jokes around and flirts when the jury leaves the room; this shows that the stoic look is a presentation intended to benefit herself. And she didn't have her head down because she was fearful at the end of the day today; she was reading a document intently, and it was on her lap. Somehow, the HLN pundits missed that. JMO.
fftobed:

 

[darnudes]

I don't know about this. Can you explain what this is about? TY!

Well one time, very long ago, probably when all of Lee's phone calls and visits were being released, Lee allegedly said to ICA...

"Is this like the last time"

That phrase has gone on and entered mythical status because many, many people (myself included) believe that they heard it but no one and I mean no one, has ever been able to find a clip of Lee saying that. I too thought I had heard him say that because even to this day I can hear his voice saying it but at that time there was so much information floating around and so many shows covering the story and a multitude of interviews being done by all the players. I've wondered if he said something like that in an interview that was never uploaded and that is why no one found it. Many people thought it had been edited out of his phone/jail calls and visits but really no one has an answer.

 

[Amster]

After reading about these women, I do NOT think ICA will get the DP.

Why?? What she did to Caylee is right up there with the worst of the worst. She'll fit right in with the inmate who killed her 3 yr. old son.

 

[Carnie]

I lolled at the part in JP instructions that the prosecution may not ridicule the defense's theory.

 

[Nova24]

I think that's one of the things that bothers me the most...all the unanswered questions...the biggest one being...WHY?

I think they knew early on something wasn't right with her story but were in denial. They were fearful they wouldn't be able to hide their real feelings in the test and worried they would get ICA in even more trouble. I wonder now if GA and LA wished they had after the allegations slung their way.

 

[ljs713]

Well one time, very long ago, probably when all of Lee's phone calls and visits were being released, Lee allegedly said to ICA...

"Is this like the last time"

That phrase has gone on and entered mythical status because many, many people (myself included) believe that they heard it but no one and I mean no one, has ever been able to find a clip of Lee saying that. I too thought I had heard him say that because even to this day I can hear his voice saying it but at that time there was so much information floating around and so many shows covering the story and a multitude of interviews being done by all the players. I've wondered if he said something like that in an interview that was never uploaded and that is why no one found it. Many people thought it had been edited out of his phone/jail calls and visits but really no one has an answer.

I agree. I remember hearing him say this too in one of his jail visits with ICA. I did not know that no one can find it now, that is strange, real strange.

 

[gngr~snap]

I thought Lee said that when he was visiting her in jail.

I thought it was on a call home from jail? When she was telling LA close to "home", p"laces familar to us", "ask mom she knows" and "bottom right (or left) I forget! Guess it's not on a transcript.
Odd

I just read on another site that the picture that was not allowed where we thought ICA was at her baby shower... was CA holding "Teddy". Caylee got him as a gift at the baby shower. They said CA told Greta on her first interview.
How did I miss that? hmm :waitasec:
guess I will find out when all the sidebars are released...

 

[txsvicki]

I'm not sure I believe that all true psychopaths acted horribly as children or that parents had to cover up their bad behavior. Nothing has been said about Casey's childhood or Cindy covering for her until around the time she had Caylee. There have been psychopath serial killers where their family had no idea that they ever had a problem until caught, and families claim they were normal acting kids. It could be the same with Casey. Something caused her to become a thief and accused killer instead of becoming a white collar sociopath. If a true psychopath has a problem as a kid maybe they learn very early how to manipulate so that people don't know just how much of a problem they do have. If Cindy always covered for Casey there should be people coming forward to say how horrible she was, how she stole their kids' lunch money, got their kids in trouble, stole from neighbors, hurt other children, damaged property, etc. There should be a string of middle school and high school girls and boys coming forward saying bad things about Casey and what she did to them. Maybe that will happen after this is all over, because she most likely made a lot of enemies and didn't have very many girlfriends at all. But, she could have kept that contained at school and not let her family know.

 

[Sandfordfan]

I DO know what you mean! This is what I have thought for a long time and I, too, thought of Paris Hilton and her dog in a purse. I wonder what became of Paris' little dog when she didn't need it anymore --- probably not what became of Caylee!
(I hope!)

If you can watch the whole video (with the sound) of Casey playing on the floor with Caylee, pay close attention. From the very first time I saw that video (long time ago) I felt Casey was planning for SOMETHING to happen to Caylee. I remember Cindy saying at one time that Casey and Caylee were home alone and she and George came home in the midst of the video being shot. Listen to what Casey says to them about interrupting the video. Look at the way Casey is NOT really involved with Caylee. It gave me chills because I felt then and I feel now that she was making videos and taking lots of pictures to make herself look like a loving mother for when the time came that SOMETHING happened to Caylee. (I probably haven't explained this very well.)

JMO

I posted on this before..but look at the frantic nature of Casey's "play" with Caylee in the video ...and not only is she not into her daughter, Caylee looks somewhat confused about her mother's manic behavior. ..and not that happy.
I would guess that she had rarely or never engaged in that kind of "on the floor" antics with her mother before.

 

[RR0004]

http://eggtreenews.wordpress.com/2011/07/01/the-whirling-dervish-chronicles/#entry

They've done it again.

OMG! I'm crying I'm laughing so hard!!!!

PS- it wasn't just me, that lady was loopy (in a good way, of course!).
PPS- I never really looked at Casey's chair, but she does kinda look like Edith Ann (in a good way, of course!) I do believe she's shrinking.

 

[butwhatif?]

Has this been posted yet? A passive aggressive ICA at the end of the day .

Calling all lip readers


http://www.wftv.com/video/28424275/index.html

 

[gngr~snap]

I agree. I remember hearing him say this too in one of his jail visits with ICA. I did not know that no one can find it now, that is strange, real strange.

righ after that she said not to discuss it err.
something close to that..

 

[RR0004]

I think they knew early on something wasn't right with her story but were in denial. They were fearful they wouldn't be able to hide their real feelings in the test and worried they would get ICA in even more trouble. I wonder now if GA and LA wished they had after the allegations slung their way.

The As are gonna have to live with every bad decision they made along the way.
I really wish we could hear Casey's story. I want to know why she murdered precious Caylee. There are some things we'll never know.

 

[kant]

I've always felt Cindy covered things up because of her guilt. I think they DID have a huge fight that night and horrible things were said. Maybe something like "You'll never see Caylee again". (hence, the MySpace posting). I don't know if Cindy really thought Casey would kill Caylee, probably not, but I do think she thought Casey was keeping Caylee from her because of that fight. At some point, I DO think Cindy realized Caylee was never coming home and why. I think Cindy loved Caylee VERY much, however, I also think Cindy has a huge ego and cares VERY much about presenting a perfect loving All American family to the world.

We all google weird stuff, that being half the magic of the internet. However, searching for neck breaking and how to make poison demonstrates that ICA was looking for ways to murder her child. That she settled on something other than neck breaking is meaningless, the point is that she was PLANNING ahead of time. And in this case, as it happens, the evidence shows that mom was searching for the poison that might well have been used to kill her child, so it supports both the conclusion of murder and that this murder was premeditated.

And that's the really important thing to keep in mind when considering this case. This is not just a mom who killed her kid in a fit of rage, nor was it a chronic child abuser who went too far, this is the WORST kind of monster on trial here. This woman researched how to murder her child. Imagine that. She gave her baths and played and told her stories and kissed her at bedtime and fed her dinner and all the normal mommy stuff, and all the while she was looking into these little trusting eyes and thinking, "Should mommy snap your neck baby? Should I drown you in your bubblebath? Maybe tonight, while you sleep, I should smother you with your teddybear? Or should I make the poison? What the easiest way for mommy to kill her little angel?"

Think about that.

THAT'S why these computer searches matter.

Forgive me for saying this, but how do we know that ICA wasnt contemplating killling her mother?... AND SHE JUST DIDNT PULL IT OFF for some reason... known only to ICA?

If so, (hypothetically, of course) what stopped her?

Was it bc of the argument or whatever?

Some unknown interference/person? Something else transpired?...fear?... change of heart..? IDK

IDK what Im saying...

I do think that ICA killed Caylee in a fit of rage, as opposed to a plan.

and im half on the fence on the accidental dosing thing too,

....but sort of... not really;

Im honestly more in the rage-at-cindy box.

if I had to put myself in a box.


poor syntax and all

and PS

didnt at some point, ICA tell some girlfriend that she and that friend could live in the Ant family home?

Was ICA planning for the family home's parents to be.... no longer with us? Sorry I guess in this instance (theory looose as it is) Im going all shades of Menendez brothers on you guys.

nevermind.[/Roseanne Roseanna-danna]



.


moo

 

[MissJames]

I'm wondering if June 9 could be what LA is referring to when he asks KC is this like the last time. Could something have happened to baby CayLEE except maybe with CA being a nurse she was able to save baby CayLEE, that time. And when KC says, "don't worry I didn't say anything" was KC referring to something that happened on June 9????

I don't believe I've ever heard a theory like that ,but it's as plausible as anything else . Wow,it never occurred to me ,that something like this might have happened before,but she was saved. :maddening: I don't know about being so close in time,though .I think the A's would have moved mountains if they really believed Caylee was in danger.

 

[egnarts]

I've read all of the legal opinions, here and elsewhere, as well as researched some cases, but honestly, I do not see how this particular defense cannot be deemed "ineffective". I cannot imagine a less effective defense. Regardless of the experience of CM, for instance, or the credentials of DS, this was a horribly assembled defense, made no sense at all and more often than not, her own lawyers pointed out incriminating facts to the witnesses. To watch this case with an open mind, one would could be forgiven in concluding that her defense was "throwing" the case. I often felt like I was watching an athlete intentionally losing a game or shaving points to cover the spread.

As much as I hate the idea of another trial three years from now I will lose some respect for the system if this defense is deemed effective.

JMO

OTOH - If all they had to go on, was the magical mystery tour by their client, what's 8 atty's to do? I should also note, tho, less time in the media by DT would have allowed them to be a bit better prepared. Their gamesmanship & narcissism got in the way of their / DT's job. IMO :seeya:

 

[darnudes]

I agree. I remember hearing him say this too in one of his jail visits with ICA. I did not know that no one can find it now, that is strange, real strange.

If you ever find it I'd put it up on ebay, you'd make a fortune!

I wouldn't like to guess how many hours have been spent by people trying to track that down.

 

[gngr~snap]

"Is this like the last time?"
Remember ??? initially they were released as AUDIO files!
we didn't get video or transcripts for awhile! here it is I'm listening!

<SNIP> wrong link!

 

[darnudes]

Everyone has probably already seen it but in case you missed it, this one is for all the "Team Ashton" peeps!.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RniXQ3UBrac&feature=related"]YouTube - &#x202a;Jeff Ashton - Here Comes Your Man&#x202c;&rlm;[/ame]

 

[MissJames]

Forgive me for saying thius, but how do we know that ICA wasnt contemplating killling her mother?... AND JUST DIDNT PULL IT OFF...


bc of gthe argument or whatever interference transpired...fear... change of heart.. IDK what Im sahying...

I do think that she killed Caylee in a fit of rage, as opposed to a plan.

and im half on the fence on the accidental dosing thing too.

moo

I think it's both.I suspect she thought about killing Caylee and her parents for awhile. I also think she carried out killing Caylee when she was confronted by Cindy.
While listening to the computer analyst talking about neck breaking and shovel ,I had this vision of ICA waiting in the garage on July 18th ,with the neighbors borrowed shovel,waiting for her parents to get home.I do believe she intended to kill them ,also. TonE probably texted her and she put it off.
That's completely in my imagination,but I it's not a stretch to believe,IMO.