Casey and Family Psych Profile #11

[kimmera]

I am so glad this question was posted. I am a clinical psychologist and am totally obsessed with KC's psych profile. I think when the trial is over we will hear a lot about prior antisocial behavior. It may not have risen to the level of serious criminal behavior, though problems like shoplifting, rule-breaking, speeding tickets, lying, cheating, etc. is all very likely. The problem with sociopathy is that most of us (even trained professionals) have an impossible time wrapping our heads around how a person can lack some basic human emotions and impulse controls. Usually the parents do everything they can to protect their child from consequences, which of course just reinforces the antisocial behavior so that by late adlecnce, early adulthood, it is permanent. It would take a VERY strong family with great familiarity in setting limits and consequences to raise a child with sociopathic tendencies to grow into a productive, integrated member of society. I really hope the psych evals and any testing done is one day published because I am trying to understand as well.

Wow! Thanks for dropping by, Dr. Linda! So you think that there would have been SOME signs in adolescence, right? I imagine there would have been a lot as well. In your experience, do you think that sociopathy can be treated?

 

[Granna6]

I am so glad this question was posted. I am a clinical psychologist and am totally obsessed with KC's psych profile. I think when the trial is over we will hear a lot about prior antisocial behavior. It may not have risen to the level of serious criminal behavior, though problems like shoplifting, rule-breaking, speeding tickets, lying, cheating, etc. is all very likely. The problem with sociopathy is that most of us (even trained professionals) have an impossible time wrapping our heads around how a person can lack some basic human emotions and impulse controls. Usually the parents do everything they can to protect their child from consequences, which of course just reinforces the antisocial behavior so that by late adlecnce, early adulthood, it is permanent. It would take a VERY strong family with great familiarity in setting limits and consequences to raise a child with sociopathic tendencies to grow into a productive, integrated member of society. I really hope the psych evals and any testing done is one day published because I am trying to understand as well.

I've been wanting to ask a psych this question, so here goes: Does a sociopathic/psychopathic person KNOW something is wrong with him- or herself? I notice that even when Casey is confronted with incontrovertible PROOF that she has lied, she STILL denies! Are they incapable of understanding logic and admitting wrong? Does she really believe all the muck floating around in her head? Is she actually sitting there thinking, "I am innocent of this"?

 

[angelainwi]

I am so glad this question was posted. I am a clinical psychologist and am totally obsessed with KC's psych profile. I think when the trial is over we will hear a lot about prior antisocial behavior. It may not have risen to the level of serious criminal behavior, though problems like shoplifting, rule-breaking, speeding tickets, lying, cheating, etc. is all very likely. The problem with sociopathy is that most of us (even trained professionals) have an impossible time wrapping our heads around how a person can lack some basic human emotions and impulse controls. Usually the parents do everything they can to protect their child from consequences, which of course just reinforces the antisocial behavior so that by late adlecnce, early adulthood, it is permanent. It would take a VERY strong family with great familiarity in setting limits and consequences to raise a child with sociopathic tendencies to grow into a productive, integrated member of society. I really hope the psych evals and any testing done is one day published because I am trying to understand as well.

I think that she was not born a sociopath but became one based on her family dynamics. Curious on your view?

 

[SaltyTexan]

I am so glad this question was posted. I am a clinical psychologist and am totally obsessed with KC's psych profile. I think when the trial is over we will hear a lot about prior antisocial behavior. It may not have risen to the level of serious criminal behavior, though problems like shoplifting, rule-breaking, speeding tickets, lying, cheating, etc. is all very likely. The problem with sociopathy is that most of us (even trained professionals) have an impossible time wrapping our heads around how a person can lack some basic human emotions and impulse controls. Usually the parents do everything they can to protect their child from consequences, which of course just reinforces the antisocial behavior so that by late adlecnce, early adulthood, it is permanent. It would take a VERY strong family with great familiarity in setting limits and consequences to raise a child with sociopathic tendencies to grow into a productive, integrated member of society. I really hope the psych evals and any testing done is one day published because I am trying to understand as well.

Interesting, 30 years ago I was married to a sociopath, and the scores of psychologists and psychiatrists I tried to talk to were not interested at all in any insight I had to offer. They were interested in talking to his mother, his sister, etc. but why I don't know. They were covering his behavior all along, and as you can see with the A family, I think that's pretty typical. Maybe I am not qualified to give advice to a professional, but I could sure as heck tell you some stories that would give you goosebumps. And from all that I gathered, with my ex, it started when he was about 6 years old.

 

[rotterdam]

I am so glad this question was posted. I am a clinical psychologist and am totally obsessed with KC's psych profile. I think when the trial is over we will hear a lot about prior antisocial behavior. It may not have risen to the level of serious criminal behavior, though problems like shoplifting, rule-breaking, speeding tickets, lying, cheating, etc. is all very likely. The problem with sociopathy is that most of us (even trained professionals) have an impossible time wrapping our heads around how a person can lack some basic human emotions and impulse controls. Usually the parents do everything they can to protect their child from consequences, which of course just reinforces the antisocial behavior so that by late adlecnce, early adulthood, it is permanent. It would take a VERY strong family with great familiarity in setting limits and consequences to raise a child with sociopathic tendencies to grow into a productive, integrated member of society. I really hope the psych evals and any testing done is one day published because I am trying to understand as well.

Tks for your post. Unless we think like KC , we can not comprehend her behavior. I surely do not. And I suspect that her average normal parents could not either. It appears that her circle of close friends constantly changed. Makes you wonder why she has stuck with JB for three years. Guess he continued to be useful. I just wonder when the verdict arrives and it is not to her liking , she will drop JB like a hot potato.
IMO, she murdered Caylee on impulse for selfish reasons, because Caylee was a current obstacle in her bella vita. Not a long term premeditated plan but still premeditated. The chloroform search, months prior, might have been for temporary sedation only.

 

[txsvicki]

I'll be interested and hope we find out if Casey was an elaborate liar as a teen. She could have acted very nice around the home, planning her future while sneaking around drinking, partying, running around with boys, etc. Since she lived in the same neighborhood all her school years, you'd think she'd have had a group of very good longtime girlfriends who stood by her at first. I've heard of no one except KioMarie who didn't seem to even be a friend at the time. Casey probably made some enemies in high school. It would also be interesting to find out if she made herself a victim around school and made up lies about teachers or other kids. Also, from what I've seen, it's impossible to get any real meaningful help for kids who have sociopathic tendencies because they won't be diagnosed with one thing other than ADD or mood disorder NOS. Even getting locked up in Juvie doesn't get any help for that sort of thing unless they get sex offender therapy or into a drug program.

 

[indicajane]

slightly ot- but in regards to Ann Rule writing the book...I saw her on the Diane Downs special recently, and I fear there aren't a lot of book in her future She looked awful. It broke my heart.

 

[mombomb]

http://www.skcentral.com/articles.php?article_id=24

": With the advice of his lawyers - including even Mr. Farmer, who supposedly Mr. Bundy greatly respected and admired - and that he would take the guilty plea, because it was my view that he would not, because that would terminate the show, his ability to be the celebrity would come to an end, he would be just someone who was spared from the death sentence, and the show would be over. Whereas, his need was to have the proceedings go on and on in order to gratify his pathological needs. "

Thank you so very much for the above link! With the trial winding down, I found my self even more perplexed - no explanation, no better understanding of what happened or HOW this could have happened! I know there is another poster who has a picture of Bundy and ICA with the same sinister look, but I had know idea how similar they are!

This article has shown me why I couldn't make sense of what ICA did before. I knew she had to have had serious mental issues, but on the surface she could appear reasonably normal. After watching every minute of the trial - I was totally flabbergasted by her stone cold expression and inappropriate giddiness. Now I have a better understanding!

Don't throw things at me please - but, after reading that article, I have to wonder what effect she has had on JB and the rest of the defense team. 3 years of her has got to take it's toll - and can't be something one would get over very quickly.

This trial has got to be the ultimate reward for her - an international audience, and the possibility of years of appeals. What more could she want? I used to think she thought she would walk, but now I'm not sure she even cares about that.

 

[Granna6]

I think that most sociopaths continue to operate until they run up against a force bigger than they are. With ICA, it was a criminal act that absolutely could not be ignored. I think that this courtroom is the first time in her entire life that she has been held accountable for anything. It is the first time she has been unable to yammer and yell her way out of something. Some sociopaths probably lie their way through life, but perhaps their actions are just offensive, not criminal. Only when they run smack up against the law are they exposed.

I believe that if poor Kronk had not chosen to urinate in that particular spot, this whack job would still be on the loose after killing the toddler, possibly having knocked off both her parents.

 

[GeekyGirl]

slightly ot- but in regards to Ann Rule writing the book...I saw her on the Diane Downs special recently, and I fear there aren't a lot of book in her future She looked awful. It broke my heart.

That's funny, I was just reading today about how she was contacted by the daughter Diane Down gave up for adoption... I had NO idea she was 74! I remember reading "The stranger beside me" for the first time and just being blown away by her.

 

[ColdDayIn]

slightly ot- but in regards to Ann Rule writing the book...I saw her on the Diane Downs special recently, and I fear there aren't a lot of book in her future She looked awful. It broke my heart.

I hate to hear that. She is one of my favorite authors. I might be wrong, but didn't she attend every trial of the perps she wrote about? I have not seen any mention of her being present in this trial, so that would be another indicator that she would probably not write about it. It's a shame because she really puts in the work to make sure she has every fact and detail laid out, unbiased, and you really feel as if you are living through it.

 

[Never4GetCaylee]

There was a poster who talked about some things from a book called"Mommies Little Girl." on another thread. But I cannot find it. But you can find that book on Amazon though. So it may help with some questions you have.

Amazon.com: Mommy's Little Girl: Casey Anthony and her Daughter Caylee's Tragic Fate (9780312365141): Diane Fanning: Books

I have read this book. It's a pretty concise timeline of what happened, but it doesn't give much if any insight into ICA. I think I already knew everything in the book from reading here and from news reports...the book just really puts everything together in one place, but didn't have any new info.

 

[marlap]

http://www.skcentral.com/articles.php?article_id=24

": With the advice of his lawyers - including even Mr. Farmer, who supposedly Mr. Bundy greatly respected and admired - and that he would take the guilty plea, because it was my view that he would not, because that would terminate the show, his ability to be the celebrity would come to an end, he would be just someone who was spared from the death sentence, and the show would be over. Whereas, his need was to have the proceedings go on and on in order to gratify his pathological needs. "

Thank you so very much for the above link! With the trial winding down, I found my self even more perplexed - no explanation, no better understanding of what happened or HOW this could have happened! I know there is another poster who has a picture of Bundy and ICA with the same sinister look, but I had know idea how similar they are!

This article has shown me why I couldn't make sense of what ICA did before. I knew she had to have had serious mental issues, but on the surface she could appear reasonably normal. After watching every minute of the trial - I was totally flabbergasted by her stone cold expression and inappropriate giddiness. Now I have a better understanding!

Don't throw things at me please - but, after reading that article, I have to wonder what effect she has had on JB and the rest of the defense team. 3 years of her has got to take it's toll - and can't be something one would get over very quickly.

This trial has got to be the ultimate reward for her - an international audience, and the possibility of years of appeals. What more could she want? I used to think she thought she would walk, but now I'm not sure she even cares about that.

I had the exact same question of the toll her bullying would have on her defense team...I am betting they are drained and inwardly thrilled to be almost rid of her...

 

[Never4GetCaylee]

Does anyone remember the woman in the beginning of the case...Lauren Gibbs I believe, that babysat for Caylee when Casey was supposedly working? She was on Larry King one night in the very very beginning. She went on and on about what a wonderful person ICA was, she even said ICA babysat for her two little boys. She said there was absolutely no way ICA would hurt Caylee. That was the one and only time I saw her and then she totally disappeared, never to be heard from again. It was so weird. Same with the girl on the jailhouse tape, the one that begged ICA to tell her what was going on. Christina. Whatever happened to her? I think ICA used, manipulated and made a fool out of any friend she ever made and when they realized that they just walked away. It is odd though that you never hear anything from any of these people. Especially now with it on the news so much and the HLN shows trying to interview anyone possible. No Kio Marie, No Annie Downing, No Lauren, No Christina, No boyfriends, nada.

 

[sleutherer]

Interesting though, from a clinical perspective, she would have to be showing signs of APD or NPD before the age of 15 IIRC... I know there's something about stealing a check from Lee when she was in high school, but other than that... Nada.

ETA: I stand corrected, only antisocial personality disorder has the age requirement

http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/antisocialpd.htm

Yeah, remember Betty Broderick. NPD and all was okay as long as things were going her way. Once her life took an unwanted turn, she decompensated.

 

[monique]

If you look at the evidence list and watch the "Lee with Tony" video tape, where Tony was asked to wear a wire while meeting with Lee, there's some insight into Casey there. Lee mentions that Casey's lying has been going on since adolescence, which was interesting.

http://www.wftv.com/news/23080678/detail.html

Thanks for pointing this out. I had read all of DC's e-mails and wondered where the whole drug king-pin theories had come from. Now I know. I went through this list of evidence before but somehow missed this link until now.

Poor Lee. He was trying so desperately to find Caylee and bring some relief to himself and his parents. Sadly, he was grasping at straws...led down a fairy-tale lane by his sister's lies. And what did he get for all his trouble? Painted as a molester in her trial. The place that those of us not thoroughly educated in the case...those who have only heard bits and pieces...might actually believe he and George did something horrendous during ICA's youth.

ICA is a selfish monster. She has tortured everyone that ever cared for her. Sadly, her beautiful, innocent daughter paid the highest price. I try to find comfort in knowing she is now with the angels. Forever protected.

I'll pray for the rest of the A's. I know what it is to be caught in the web of a sociopath. Luckily for me, I escaped.

 

[sleutherer]

I am so glad this question was posted. I am a clinical psychologist and am totally obsessed with KC's psych profile. I think when the trial is over we will hear a lot about prior antisocial behavior. It may not have risen to the level of serious criminal behavior, though problems like shoplifting, rule-breaking, speeding tickets, lying, cheating, etc. is all very likely. The problem with sociopathy is that most of us (even trained professionals) have an impossible time wrapping our heads around how a person can lack some basic human emotions and impulse controls...

And Casey's history will be even more interesting because she is female and we seem to have a much smaller database for women vs. men regarding those early behavioral markers.

I'd think female behaviors will appear more benign compared to the male's due to cultural/biologic norms. It'd be an intriguing study.

 

[1tasha]

slightly ot- but in regards to Ann Rule writing the book...I saw her on the Diane Downs special recently, and I fear there aren't a lot of book in her future She looked awful. It broke my heart.

I think Thomas French should do it. He covered the Oba Chandler murders. Bookmark this for later--excellent read:
http://www2.sptimes.com/Angels_Demons/

 

[lajones81]

Does anyone remember the woman in the beginning of the case...Lauren Gibbs I believe, that babysat for Caylee when Casey was supposedly working? She was on Larry King one night in the very very beginning. She went on and on about what a wonderful person ICA was, she even said ICA babysat for her two little boys. She said there was absolutely no way ICA would hurt Caylee. That was the one and only time I saw her and then she totally disappeared, never to be heard from again. It was so weird. Same with the girl on the jailhouse tape, the one that begged ICA to tell her what was going on. Christina. Whatever happened to her? I think ICA used, manipulated and made a fool out of any friend she ever made and when they realized that they just walked away. It is odd though that you never hear anything from any of these people. Especially now with it on the news so much and the HLN shows trying to interview anyone possible. No Kio Marie, No Annie Downing, No Lauren, No Christina, No boyfriends, nada.

In all honesty, I have prayed for (and continue to pray for) anyone who is involved with ICA. I can only hope that these individuals continue to move on with their lives and leave this confusing, frightening, etc. portion of their lives alone.

 

[zachs mema]

Ablow's book IMO was a complete rip off. A waste of time snd money. I vote for Ann Rule to do the book!!

Ann Rule said she would not do the book. Said too many people are gonna write about it. Many of her fans have asked her. I read this on her website a year ago. I love Ann Rule