Caylee's Civil Rights

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Kat said:
If you will and do come back to this thread please help explain the differences between civil and constitutional rights. Which is what you outlined above and I have absolutely no knowledge about constitutional law. :) I deeply understand the grassroots movement on Caylee's behalf but if there is to be a movement it must an argument that can be supported by law. JMHO. This would have to be supported by constitutional law. We need a constitutional lawyer or someone that a good deal of knowledge to explain this. JMHO.



Snipped from petition:



Again, this isn't a violation of civil or constitutional rights. If it's a violation IMHO it might (using the word might very liberally) be a violation of Universal Declaration of Human Rights by the UN. If the creator of the petition is referencing Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act of 1986 that particular act is directed towards medical care providers. JMHO



Again way out of my realm. To my knowledge there is no general federal homicide statute. The way the (again I haven't had college classes in over 20 years) our justice system is set up is that homicide is handled at the state level. Unless there is a federal element. For example: murder takes place on federal land or building or the murder victim is a federal employee, or a couple of other caveats that wouldn't apply here.

I would sign a petition in a heart beat if it were one I thought really stood a chance at being brought before the proper legislative body.

I am not shooting this down. I want to hug every person that is searching for a way to make this right. I just don't see the above happening, we really do need some expert advice on this though. JMHO
Click to expand...

OK, so would the "federal element" include whether the FBI was involved with the initial investigation? I mean, if it's not federal why were they there & involved in the questioning, etc?
 
I sure wish/hope there is some other way to charge ICA with something so she can get few years behind bars. I hope Karma is so bad to her and everything she tries to do turns out wrong, she is just plain evil and does not deserve anything good in life IMO.
 
To explain a bit about civil rights - civil rights are those enumerated by the Constitution. As pointed out by MidAtlanticNative, "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" is not a part of the Constitution.

While I don't think this will fly for a variety of reasons, in the interest of discussion, here's a list of civil rights:
- First Amendment: freedom OF religion; freedom of speech, assembly, the press, and petition.
- Second Amendment: right to bear arms.
- Third Amendment: cannot quarter soldiers in private homes.
- Fourth Amendment: "probable cause" needed for searches, arrests, and seizures. You can also sometimes infer a right to privacy.
- Fifth Amendment: no double jeopardy, requires due process, and cannot be compelled to testify. Also, eminent domain issues.
- Sixth Amendment: guarantees a speedy public trial for criminal offenses. Also, to know your accuser.
- Seventh Amendment: assures trial by jury in civil cases.
- Eighth Amendment: forbids excessive bail or fines, and cruel and unusual punishment.
- Eleventh Amendment: you can't sue the states.
- Thirteenth Amendment: abolishes slavery.
- Fourteenth Amendment: this is a biggie! Deals with citizenship and prohibits states from abridging citizens privileges/immunities/right to due process - also, requires equal protection under the law (Unless you're Scalia, and apparently women don't count).
- Fifteenth Amendment: Can't keep a former slave or black people from voting, basically.
- Nineteenth Amendment: Women have the right to vote.
- Twenty-sixth Amendment: If you're over eighteen, you're good to vote.

I didn't include more procedural amendments, such as presidential succession. So, which of these civil rights of Caylee's did Casey violate?
 
Kat:

I completely agree with you; I was replying to another poster (just one of many quoting the Declaration of Independence as "rights" which confused me, for the same reasons you outlined) and looking for the same sort of answers you are. My post was much shorter and my questions not nearly as detailed - that'll teach me. Honestly, I was hyper-concerned about how my post would be perceived. Emotions are running a little close to the surface, as I'm sure you know. :)

I will be watching this thread, and checking the 'Lawyers' thread, too.

-Mid


Kat said:
If you will and do come back to this thread please help explain the differences between civil and constitutional rights. Which is what you outlined above and I have absolutely no knowledge about constitutional law. :) I deeply understand the grassroots movement on Caylee's behalf but if there is to be a movement it must an argument that can be supported by law. JMHO. This would have to be supported by constitutional law. We need a constitutional lawyer or someone that a good deal of knowledge to explain this. JMHO.



Snipped from petition:



Again, this isn't a violation of civil or constitutional rights. If it's a violation IMHO it might (using the word might very liberally) be a violation of Universal Declaration of Human Rights by the UN. If the creator of the petition is referencing Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act of 1986 that particular act is directed towards medical care providers. JMHO



Again way out of my realm. To my knowledge there is no general federal homicide statute. The way the (again I haven't had college classes in over 20 years) our justice system is set up is that homicide is handled at the state level. Unless there is a federal element. For example: murder takes place on federal land or building or the murder victim is a federal employee, or a couple of other caveats that wouldn't apply here.

I would sign a petition in a heart beat if it were one I thought really stood a chance at being brought before the proper legislative body.

I am not shooting this down. I want to hug every person that is searching for a way to make this right. I just don't see the above happening, we really do need some expert advice on this though. JMHO
Click to expand...
 
The retrial in federal court after acquittal in state court is supported by the dual sovereignty doctrine

Read more: http://www.faqs.org/abstracts/Law/D...g-and-constitutional-amend.html#ixzz1RZYMiFJv


I don't know whether this is anything or not.

Double jeopardy litigation revolves around four central questions: (1) In what type of legal proceeding does double jeopardy protection apply? (2) When does jeopardy begin, or, in legal parlance, attach? (3) When does jeopardy terminate? (4) What constitutes successive prosecutions or punishments for the same offense? Although courts have answered the second and third questions with some clarity, they continued to struggle over the first and last.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/double+jeopardy
 
JusticeSeeker1960 said:
OK, so would the "federal element" include whether the FBI was involved with the initial investigation? I mean, if it's not federal why were they there & involved in the questioning, etc?
Click to expand...

Not from what I learned and read. I could always be wrong. But wasn't the FBI called in initially because this was reported as a kidnapping? One of the other members will probably remember not only when but why they were requested to assist Orange County in the beginning.

I also looked real hard and I don't see a reference for KC having been interviewed by the FBI during the month (July 08) that her parents were interviewed. But hadn't she already retained Baez? Surely he wouldn't let her interview with them?

By the federal element phrase I was referencing--- like for example: A murder that takes place on a military instillation, or tribal lands or high seas. Then that could fall under federal jurisdiction for prosectution. Or a fed employee gets murdered.

JMHO :)
 
Doesn't casey have to lie to the feds though to be prosecuted? As far as I know her charges were for lying to LE. She never talked directly to the FBI once Jose appeared on the scene. If I'm wrong, can someone please correct?

Thx.

Mel
 
From what I can see she didn't talk to the feds melanie. IF she had and she had lied then she could have been prosecuted by the feds. But I don't think she did talk to them. JMHO
 
Kat said:
From what I can see she didn't talk to the feds melanie. IF she had and she had lied then she could have been prosecuted by the feds. But I don't think she did talk to them. JMHO
Click to expand...

That's what I though. If she had lied to the feds, she would probably be in their custody by now (or upon release).

MOO

Mel
 
Kat said:
From what I can see she didn't talk to the feds melanie. IF she had and she had lied then she could have been prosecuted by the feds. But I don't think she did talk to them. JMHO
Click to expand...


She did talk with the feds. I have seen video of her talking with the fbi.
 
While I am not at all sure of what federal charges KC violated, I do have first hand knowledge of this happening in 2010. I am in South Carolina, and remember it well.

There was a double murder of a couple Linda Poole Hilton and her husband William Hilton Jr.
The murder happened in August 2006. This was in Pawleys Island S.C. A very wealthy couple. Murder charges were filed against Mrs. Hilton's adoptive son Timothy Poole.

A Florence s.c. magistrate decided there was not enough evidence to pursue the murder charges and dismissed them. Keep in Mind Timothy Poole had been a deputy in Florence county.
I am sure they all just fiddled along for the next 3 years , but in May 2009, the feds indicted Timothy Poole on 20 charges a list that included wire fraud mail fraud and conspiracy not sure what each charge was.

In March of 2010 this case was tried in the federal court system and Timothy Poole was sentenced to 400 years he was found guilty on all 20 charges and sentenced to 20 years for each charge.
 
JusticeSeeker1960 said:
OK, so would the "federal element" include whether the FBI was involved with the initial investigation? I mean, if it's not federal why were they there & involved in the questioning, etc?
Click to expand...

IIRC, AZ's answer to a similar question in the most recent 'Lawyer' thread was that the FBI was just "helping out". HTH!
 
AnaTeresa said:
To explain a bit about civil rights - civil rights are those enumerated by the Constitution. As pointed out by MidAtlanticNative, "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" is not a part of the Constitution.

While I don't think this will fly for a variety of reasons, in the interest of discussion, here's a list of civil rights:
- First Amendment: freedom OF religion; freedom of speech, assembly, the press, and petition.
- Second Amendment: right to bear arms.
- Third Amendment: cannot quarter soldiers in private homes.
- Fourth Amendment: "probable cause" needed for searches, arrests, and seizures. You can also sometimes infer a right to privacy.
- Fifth Amendment: no double jeopardy, requires due process, and cannot be compelled to testify. Also, eminent domain issues.
- Sixth Amendment: guarantees a speedy public trial for criminal offenses. Also, to know your accuser.
- Seventh Amendment: assures trial by jury in civil cases.
- Eighth Amendment: forbids excessive bail or fines, and cruel and unusual punishment.
- Eleventh Amendment: you can't sue the states.
- Thirteenth Amendment: abolishes slavery.
- Fourteenth Amendment: this is a biggie! Deals with citizenship and prohibits states from abridging citizens privileges/immunities/right to due process - also, requires equal protection under the law (Unless you're Scalia, and apparently women don't count).
- Fifteenth Amendment: Can't keep a former slave or black people from voting, basically.
- Nineteenth Amendment: Women have the right to vote.
- Twenty-sixth Amendment: If you're over eighteen, you're good to vote.

I didn't include more procedural amendments, such as presidential succession. So, which of these civil rights of Caylee's did Casey violate?
Click to expand...

well, technically....all of them?
 
dizzychick said:
Look what happened to Misty Croslin. Why cant the same thing happen here? We can always pray, hope and suggest to the appropriate entities LOL
Click to expand...

Misty Croslin is exactly the reason that I hope FCA stays in Florida. She got 25 years for selling a handful of pain killers...and if IIRC, she was a first time offender. But to be honest, that was because Florida has mandatory minimum sentencing for distribution of narcotics.

One thing I know for sure...FCA will be watched carefully by LE for a long time to come. She will break the law again. I just hope that she will re-offend and be sent back to jail before she has a chance to kill someone else and/or have another child. :twocents:
 
Kat said:
It looks like FBI was called into the investigation because KC wouldn't talk to the Orange Co. LE.

Does anyone remember was it CA that asked LE to bring in the FBI to talk to KC?

http://www.wesh.com/r-video/17010817/detail.html
Click to expand...

From what I've read, George and Cindy talked to an FBI agent but Casey never did. She had agreed to do so, but her lawyer said otherwise. So she did not lie to FBI...
 
In the instance of the Poole murders it was not any civil right pursued it was the wire fraud, mail fraud, Wire fraud simply states the a scheme was hatched and carried out thru the telephone tv internet ect. Might be that the false info given on the telephone could be federal.
 
Angelocracy said:
The Civil Rights thing is not going to happen. What about charges for Casey's mother and father.

As a former cop, can anything be done to take his pension away?

Can the mother be charged with conspiracy to cover up a crime?

Also I hear that Texas EquuSearch might sue.

http://www.mi7.co/2011/07/round-2-federal-charges-and-civil.html
Click to expand...

Just a thought re: George...

Was he a "career" cop? For some reason I remember hearing that he worked as an officer/dectective for 9 or 10 years. If that's the case (and I may very well be wrong), he probably would not have vested fully in his pension benefits. Most defined benefit plans assume a 20, 25, or 30 year period of employment before considering the EE fully vested and eligible for benefits.

Even if George is receiving pension benefits, it's *highly* unlikely they would be discontinued as a result of anything that's happened in this case to date.

FWIW.
 
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