2011.05.20 On a Scale of 1 to 10 How do you Feel About this Jury?

[IfIMay]

I wish they would all be forced to watch how Offender Anthony was when they were not in the room. How easily she could turn off her act. That, if it were me, would make me sick. How easily I was "played". Of course, I would have stuck to my beliefs and hung the jury, though.

 

[2goldfish]

..i truly believe that the "hold-out" juror #2 thought (or was convinced?) that either he had to join the 11 Not Guilties---or----get all of them to join his 1 Guilty.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20521892,00.html



..so they could bring an unanimous decision (only) back to the judge, as interpretted by the jury foreman (?) when reading the jury instructions.

http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/04/jury-instructions-in-the-casey-anthony-trial/
---Jury Instructions---Casey Anthony Trial---


RULES FOR DELIBERATION

5. Your duty is to determine if the defendant has been proven guilty or not, in accord with the law.
6. Whatever verdict you render must be unanimous, that is, each juror must agree to the same verdict.

if juror number two told the truth, (I believe he was the first to speak out, not giving his name) he was the last holdout for manslaughter. in that interview, he is said to be very upset, actually in tears.

if that is true, and what you said up there was true, then this one juror....well....ok, I will just say it....him I have empathy for. because if all this is true:

1. he was the last holdout
2. the following day he was actually in tears about it
3. he believed he HAD to agree with them, or they with him, ie he didnt know a hung jury was a possibility

then he must be the most miserably guilty so and so on earth. it's got to be eating him alive. I know if it was me I could never, ever, ever forgive myself for letting them push me against what I knew was right.

 

[JSR]

I wish they would all be forced to watch how Offender Anthony was when they were not in the room. How easily she could turn off her act. That, if it were me, would make me sick. How easily I was "played". Of course, I would have stuck to my beliefs and hung the jury, though.

I do too!!!! I would love to force them all into a room and watch the footage of her watching the video of Caylee's smiling face be covered with duct tape. But when the video was played again minutes later she put on quite the show for them when they were in the Courtroom with her. But she scornfully watched that video when they weren't there.

Casey Anthony is a con artist and the Pinellas twelve were totally duped by her.

 

[Chilly Willy]

if juror number two told the truth, (I believe he was the first to speak out, not giving his name) he was the last holdout for manslaughter. in that interview, he is said to be very upset, actually in tears.

if that is true, and what you said up there was true, then this one juror....well....ok, I will just say it....him I have empathy for. because if all this is true:

1. he was the last holdout
2. the following day he was actually in tears about it
3. he believed he HAD to agree with them, or they with him, ie he didnt know a hung jury was a possibility

then he must be the most miserably guilty so and so on earth. it's got to be eating him alive. I know if it was me I could never, ever, ever forgive myself for letting them push me against what I knew was right.

I have a very difficult time believing that any American adult who was not raised by wolves is unaware that a hung jury is always a possibility. If I strongly felt that a defendant was guilty, no way would I agree to go along with the rest of the jury and vote not guilty, especially when the crime is the murder of a toddler.

 

[scotslass]

I can barely bring myself to think about how I feel about this jury never mind rate them on a scale. I'm still so angry and frustrated by the verdict. It blindsided me so badly that i'm actually shocked by how much it has affected me.

I thought if i distanced myself, didn't post here, read any media related post verdict just keep it to minimal headlines that those intense feelings would ease. However they haven't. I'm still as mad as hell!!

The jury voting against the DP i could live with, hell i could even live with no murder 1 but absolutely nothing??? I cannot for the life of me understand how the jury could put little Caylee aside and not have justice fall on her side. In the end they only found KC guilty of lying well surprise surprise...:banghead:


sorry guess i'm better off staying silent i do not think i could ever reconcile with this jury :sick:

 

[lauriej]

I have a very difficult time believing that any American adult who was not raised by wolves is unaware that a hung jury is always a possibility. If I strongly felt that a defendant was guilty, no way would I agree to go along with the rest of the jury and vote not guilty, especially when the crime is the murder of a toddler.

..i quite agree with you "chilly"----doesn't everyone KNOW that a mistrial IS a possibility??? isn't that COMMON knowledge????

..well-----apparently not, in this "unique", "different" case...

..all of the jurors that HAVE spoken have said--we had to follow "the law"--what could we do???(sob!) not guilty, isn't innocent! but "the law" said.....

..what "law" are they speaking of?

..obviously they aren't lawyers---versed IN "law"---the only 'law' they are talking about is--the jury instructions given to them...that they MIS-interpreted---?????-----and DIDN'T bother to ask for clarification on...

..it doesn't say--in the jury instructions that someone can "hold-out"---and i honestly believe the jury foreman ( or someone! ) insisted that they could NOT---in "this" case...b/c it wasn't spelled out in "these instructions".

http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/04/jury-instructions-in-the-casey-anthony-trial/
--Jury Insructions---Casey Anthony Trial---

SUBMITTING CASE TO JURY
In just a few moments you will be taken to the jury room by the court deputy. The first thing you should do is elect a foreperson...

Your verdict finding the defendant either guilty or not guilty must be unanimous. The verdict must be the verdict of each juror, as well as of the jury as a whole.

In closing, let me remind you that it is important that you follow the law spelled out in these instructions in deciding your verdict.

There are no other laws that apply to this case. Even if you do not like the laws that must be applied, you must use them.

...it's sad, that judgeP and the SAO gave this jury the professional version of things ( which went right over their heads ) when all they wanted was baez and the easel with markers.

..i guess judgeP should have gone down to the chalkboard too to explain deliberations to them.

 

[Concerned Papa]

I have a very difficult time believing that any American adult who was not raised by wolves is unaware that a hung jury is always a possibility. If I strongly felt that a defendant was guilty, no way would I agree to go along with the rest of the jury and vote not guilty, especially when the crime is the murder of a toddler.

Eleven people, capable of intimidating a change in my vote, do not exist on this planet. That's been tried in every election I've ever voted in.

 

[2goldfish]

Eleven people, capable of intimidating a change in my vote, do not exist on this planet. That's been tried in every election I've ever voted in.

I totally agree with this, that's why I said perhaps that juror just didnt know.


after all, they DID have to find a crowd of people who didnt watch the news, so it isnt out of the realm of possibility some of them really are that clueless.

I just dont get it otherwise. that'd be the day jennifer ford pushed me into letting a babykiller loose :|

 

[PeteyGirl]

I have a very difficult time believing that any American adult who was not raised by wolves is unaware that a hung jury is always a possibility. If I strongly felt that a defendant was guilty, no way would I agree to go along with the rest of the jury and vote not guilty, especially when the crime is the murder of a toddler.

Me too, Chilly. But that is apparently what happened.

I can' t help but think of the results of a survey done with high school kids some years ago, where it was evident many of them did not know states from cities or how to find countries on maps.

There is astounding ignorance in the world. It is not rare at all.

The jury instructions were interpreted in the most concrete way possible. There was no mention of a "hung jury" in the instructions. All it said was everyone must agree. And apparently this was strongly "encouraged" by the foreman.

If you put one hundred monkeys in a room full of typewriters, you probably won't get the Gettysburg Address, but you'll get something.

Is this jury's conduct a "slice of life"? A glimpse of the state of Joe and Mary America's ability to cope with complexity and responsibility? I think it is. And it is terrifying , but not RARE.

Maybe it was as simple as collecting a jury of relatively uneducated and simple minded, concrete thinkers.

 

[Skully]

I am still upset with this outcome. I too decided not to post, read, or listen to anything related to FKC but I still come here once a week to read. I long ago realized that we are not here to get Justice. There just isn't Justice here for all of us. I think that only gets resolved in the here after. The jury didn't understand the law, plain and simple, they could have had a mistrial, but no, they decided to interpert the law themselves instead of asking for help. So no Justice for Caylee. But FKC will get some kind of karma here, she is the most hated woman in USA. This is a woman who wanted everyone to like her, and thinks she was pretty and she was the party girl, so now how does it feel to be the most hated in the USA? The jury didn't give the justice we wanted, but I have faith, that Karma will help it along before she gets her's in the end.

 

[seeing_eye]

I call BS on they "didn't have the evidence" to convict from the evidence provided at trial. They didn't look at the evidence, they didn't really deliberate afaic. I watched the trial without having followed along past December of '08. I thought there was a strong case for felony murder due to aggravated child abuse. Yesterday I read the autopsy report that I know was available to them. The conclusion of the forensic anthropologist as to when the duct tape was placed on the face was clear. And besides that was her behavior in that 31 days, clearly pointing to her concealing Caylee's death-that alone was worth a manslaughter conviction. This jury consisted of the 12 dullest knives in the drawer-the prosecution would have done well to put things in a way that shallow people would understand. Hindsight is 20/20.

The prosecution should have presented it's most abundant evidence in braille --<modsnip>.

 

[seeing_eye]

Me too, Chilly. But that is apparently what happened.

I can' t help but think of the results of a survey done with high school kids some years ago, where it was evident many of them did not know states from cities or how to find countries on maps.

There is astounding ignorance in the world. It is not rare at all.

The jury instructions were interpreted in the most concrete way possible. There was no mention of a "hung jury" in the instructions. All it said was everyone must agree. And apparently this was strongly "encouraged" by the foreman.

If you put one hundred monkeys in a room full of typewriters, you probably won't get the Gettysburg Address, but you'll get something.

Is this jury's conduct a "slice of life"? A glimpse of the state of Joe and Mary America's ability to cope with complexity and responsibility? I think it is. And it is terrifying , but not RARE.

Maybe it was as simple as collecting a jury of relatively uneducated and simple minded, concrete thinkers.

I think you may have hit on an eye-opener here. I've wondered about this ever since Jay Leno started the feature on his show, "The Jaywalkers." They're mostly college students and, from their answers to Jay's questions, one would think they all lived in caves! Another indication of the "dumbing of America" is our experiences whenever we deal with the average employee in a large corporation. It's pretty obvious to me the problem is not a lack of intelligence, but is a lack of education. I don't know how this problem will ever be solved since our current uneducated students are our future teachers! The Pinellas 12 I think are just further proof of this condition in our country. (Is it the same in the world?)

 

[Boytwnmom]

about whether this was correct? If any of them had questioned the confident <modsnip> Foreman's complete misreading of the law. It was only two days, not like they had spent weeks deliberating. No one asked the judge anything-they just believed what, I presume, the Foreman told them the law was and happily voted NG and went home after not even two days of deliberating.

if juror number two told the truth, (I believe he was the first to speak out, not giving his name) he was the last holdout for manslaughter. in that interview, he is said to be very upset, actually in tears.

if that is true, and what you said up there was true, then this one juror....well....ok, I will just say it....him I have empathy for. because if all this is true:

1. he was the last holdout
2. the following day he was actually in tears about it
3. he believed he HAD to agree with them, or they with him, ie he didnt know a hung jury was a possibility

then he must be the most miserably guilty so and so on earth. it's got to be eating him alive. I know if it was me I could never, ever, ever forgive myself for letting them push me against what I knew was right.

 

[deanna82437]

Me too, Chilly. But that is apparently what happened.

I can' t help but think of the results of a survey done with high school kids some years ago, where it was evident many of them did not know states from cities or how to find countries on maps.

There is astounding ignorance in the world. It is not rare at all.

The jury instructions were interpreted in the most concrete way possible. There was no mention of a "hung jury" in the instructions. All it said was everyone must agree. And apparently this was strongly "encouraged" by the foreman.

If you put one hundred monkeys in a room full of typewriters, you probably won't get the Gettysburg Address, but you'll get something.

Is this jury's conduct a "slice of life"? A glimpse of the state of Joe and Mary America's ability to cope with complexity and responsibility? I think it is. And it is terrifying , but not RARE.

Maybe it was as simple as collecting a jury of relatively uneducated and simple minded, concrete thinkers.

Bold by me. This is indeed terrifying. I guess I was not aware that jury instructions did not contain a reference to a hung jury. Is this always the case? Is it not common knowledge? I am totally stunned !! :waitasec:

 

[Baxter]

Bold by me. This is indeed terrifying. I guess I was not aware that jury instructions did not contain a reference to a hung jury. Is this always the case? Is it not common knowledge? I am totally stunned !! :waitasec:

I think the prosecution in their closing, should have gone over the jury instructions. I don't know if this jury would have listened, but maybe at least
one would have for a hung jury.

This jury took every word spoken by JB,CM and DS as facts. They didn't have to prove anything. Also, all of the defenses witness were right in the jury's mind. How did this case get like this? IMO CA and JB are not likable people.
How did they win this jury over?

 

[Concerned Papa]

Although I certainly agree with the contention of this jury's inability to mentally process the evidence presented, I tend to think this verdict is also indicative of a complete absence of any semblance of a work ethic. They clearly were not willing to work at the task of analytically processing all they had heard and seen to a personal conviction and vote of guilt or innocence. In short, they took the easiest and fastest way out.

Their verdict is proof positive that it takes longer to slow roast a side of beef than to set a murderer free.

 

[Carolina Girl]

I think I can finally add my two cents, and not get banned for life. I wish there was some way to send those twelve people to jail for not doing their duty. They were to examine evidence and they did not even do that. All they wanted at that point was to go home. So a precious child lost her life for nothing, and her own Mother got away with murder. I give them a -1 (minus one).

 

[LCoastMom]

I know but I guess it goes back to this jury just being lazy. They believed she was guilty but there was no smoking gun and they didn't want to spend anytime going through the evidence, etc. It was just the easy way out.

But honestly, whatever they say in the press, I don't believe anyways. I think a lot of their comments are just for the public... they feel bad, they think she is guilty, it's the state's fault, etc.

There was a smoking gun! THREE PIECES OF DUCT TAPE WRAPPED AROUND THAT PRECIOUS FACE!! (Sorry not yelling at you just sick, sick, sick over this verdict and how it was achieved.)

If (BIG IF) Caylee had been found at the bottom of some ditch, walking distance from home, no duct tape, no decomp in the car, not triple bagged, no neck breaking/chloroform searches, no chloroform in the car - maybe, just maybe I could see how this jury reached the decisions they did.

CA and FCA were having discussions (read fights) over Caylee's care. CA said FCA was a lousy, rotten mother and CA was going to take custody. One day FCA wasn't watching Caylee closely and she discovered Caylee was missing, couldn't be found in the house or outside. FCA decided CA/GA was pulling something on her, they took Caylee to teach her a lesson, so FCA (in all her glory) decides to turn the tables and take off herself! She can't admit to her friends her mother says she is a horrible person so she lies about Caylee being with the nanny. Only trouble is 31 days later mom catches up with her and wants to know where Caylee is! So she tells mom the same lie she's been telling her friends, "She's with the nanny" but now adds "I've been looking for her, they've disappeared!"

LE is called, CA and FCA are not admitting to their fights, they both go with "the nanny" story. No nanny is ever found and her addresses are all bogus!

FCA is arrested! She is even offered a deal! Tell us where Caylee is, we'll take A.B.C. off the table! But FCA has no clue what became of Caylee.

6 months go by before Caylee's remains are found down the street, in what had been a wet, muddy, swamp. No telling from the remains as there are no visible injuries but it could have been child abuse/murder, after all her mother partied like it was 1999 for 31 days while her child was "missing".

FCA is not willing to admit she was not watching her child, she lets a jury of her peers decide her fate.

There's no smoking gun, FCA is acquitted.

In the real world; a mother that lied to the cops who wanted to find her child, lied to everyone she knew for a month, boozed, screwed and got tattooed. Went out and rented movies in the hours following the last time her child was seen alive. Yeah, pretty suspicious but maybe not enough to convict her of murder...

THREE PIECES OF DUCT TAPE WRAPPED AROUND THAT TINY FACE, computer searches, decomp in the car, chloroform in the car are all the smoking guns a reasonable person should have needed to convict FCA of murdering her child.

This jury rates an epic FAIL!

 

[LCoastMom]

..about the only thing that keeps me sane some days----regarding this wretched WRONG verdict-----is the thought...the hope...

..that the 3 prosecutors were reading the juror comments---livid at 1st of course, and then as more and more came out-----one day they spontaneously burst into laughter!!! the doubled over "laughter-is-good-for-the-soul" knee-slapping All or Nothing !!

..realizing----there WAS nothing else they could have done---or said---or presented---this jury was simply too STUPID to have "got it" anyway..!

..and then once the giggles subsided---frankG got to work on their response to the probation issue...

...LDB got to work on their "costs for investigation"....

...and hopefully jeffA is penning their experience in a book somewhere-----now that i would read-----and PAY for to do so.

BBM - His wife is keeping him pretty busy remodeling, doing maintenance on the house and he's spending a lot of quality time with the kids. Maybe once he has caught up from 3 years of letting things go as he worked to get justice for Caylee we will see this happen.

State's attorney's and LE I still believe you gave your all and presented a fine case. It's not your fault this jury had their own agenda.

 

[Well Done 99]

I think you may have hit on an eye-opener here. I've wondered about this ever since Jay Leno started the feature on his show, "The Jaywalkers." They're mostly college students and, from their answers to Jay's questions, one would think they all lived in caves! Another indication of the "dumbing of America" is our experiences whenever we deal with the average employee in a large corporation. It's pretty obvious to me the problem is not a lack of intelligence, but is a lack of education. I don't know how this problem will ever be solved since our current uneducated students are our future teachers! The Pinellas 12 I think are just further proof of this condition in our country. (Is it the same in the world?)

Believe me, it's not only an American problem. I rarely come across a counter attendant these days who is able to calculate my change unless the till tells him/her what it is. I also doubt most people under 30 could tell me what the capitol of Greece is, or in which century WW2 took place ... without Googling it first. Sadly, it's because their teachers don't teach it to them.
Sorry, strayed o/t a little but my point is that humans are becoming dumber, not smarter. Everything's become too easy and there's really no need to use one's brain anymore.
The jury is no different - the only problem is, the outcome of their ignorance had very serious consequences.