TN TN - Karen Swift, 44, Dyersburg, 30 Oct 2011 - #2

[otto]

But didn't the eldest brother say his 9-year old sister went to a doctor and she remembered her mom walking her to the sister's bed at some point during the night? I think it is possible she never went to sleep. She laid down with her daughter until the daughter fell asleep and either a.) went back to the party or to meet up with whatever she wanted to share with her friend or b.) as she was laying with her daughter noticed her stuffy nose and decided to run out and get medicine since she was not sleeping yet anyways.

I may have missed more information. What I understand at this point is that Karen went home with her daughter and went to sleep/bed with her. When the daughter woke up the following morning at 6 AM, her mother was not there. I don't know anything about the children being in the same room in the morning or shopping for medicine. I understood that the 9 year old woke up at six and was surprised, or thought it unusual, that her mother was not still there sleeping beside her.

Do you remember where you read that both children were in the same bed in the morning? If the children were put in the same bed, why would the 9 year old be surprised that her mother was not there at 6 ... wouldn't Karen have slept in the other bedroom rather than squish three in a bed?

 

[ginert]

I may have missed more information. What I understand at this point is that Karen went home with her daughter and went to sleep/bed with her. When the daughter woke up the following morning at 6 AM, her mother was not there. I don't know anything about the children being in the same room in the morning or shopping for medicine. I understood that the 9 year old woke up at six and was surprised, or thought it unusual, that her mother was not still there sleeping beside her.

Do you remember where you read that both children were in the same bed in the morning? If the children were put in the same bed, why would the 9 year old be surprised that her mother was not there at 6 ... wouldn't Karen have slept in the other bedroom rather than squish three in a bed?

This is the interview, or one of them, that I was referring to:
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ijvm.html

It is under November 22, 2011
*********
VELEZ-MITCHELL: There are many, many questions about the night Karen went missing.

Let`s look at the timeline. The night of the 29th, Karen went to a Halloween party. At 11:40 p.m. that night, she calls and texts her friends two times in a row. Then at 1:30 in the morning, Karen picks up her daughter from a Halloween sleepover. The child had said she wanted to go home, and they went home. And they apparently go to sleep together.

Between 1:30 and 5 a.m., Karen gets up and moves her daughter to her little sister`s bed. And then at 5 a.m., there is a Google search, a mysterious Google search made from Karen`s phone. And then at 6 a.m., Karen is gone.

Now I don`t know about anybody else, but I don`t make Google searches at 5 in the morning for no reason. What was she looking for? Was it even her using her phone?

Straight out to my exclusive guest, the missing woman`s son, Preston Swift.
***********

I am sorry I must have wrote that wrong, I don't know for a fact that she went to get medicine but if she walked the 9-year old to her sister's bed, I think she put her there for a purpose and may in fact have been leaving the house for some reason known at this point, only to her.

 

[otto]

I've added the sidewalk that can be seen in the aerial photo, as well as a car to give a sense of scale (don't have a Nissan). There should be stairs at the front porch, shutters and the bushes should be bigger. Not sure where the people-door is near the garage, but I think there could be one. Is there a picture of the back on the house anywhere?

 

[otto]

This is the interview, or one of them, that I was referring to:
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ijvm.html

It is under November 22, 2011
*********
VELEZ-MITCHELL: There are many, many questions about the night Karen went missing.

Let`s look at the timeline. The night of the 29th, Karen went to a Halloween party. At 11:40 p.m. that night, she calls and texts her friends two times in a row. Then at 1:30 in the morning, Karen picks up her daughter from a Halloween sleepover. The child had said she wanted to go home, and they went home. And they apparently go to sleep together.

Between 1:30 and 5 a.m., Karen gets up and moves her daughter to her little sister`s bed. And then at 5 a.m., there is a Google search, a mysterious Google search made from Karen`s phone. And then at 6 a.m., Karen is gone.

Now I don`t know about anybody else, but I don`t make Google searches at 5 in the morning for no reason. What was she looking for? Was it even her using her phone?

Straight out to my exclusive guest, the missing woman`s son, Preston Swift.
***********

I am sorry I must have wrote that wrong, I don't know for a fact that she went to get medicine but if she walked the 9-year old to her sister's bed, I think she put her there for a purpose and may in fact have been leaving the house for some reason known at this point, only to her.

Thank you! I didn't know that. That changes things. I don't quite understand ... she went to bed with one daughter, then woke up the daughter, moved her to a different bedroom, or then she went to sleep with her daughter, but why would the daughter expect to wake up with her mom next to her at 6 AM if she was put into bed with her sister? Why did Karen move her daughter when she wasn't feeling well (could have been too much halloween candy)?

It also means that Karen was up and alone in the house in the middle of the night when the children were sleeping. Then we have the husband saying that he spoke to her when she was at the bottom of the stairs. Did they normally use the front door when they came home with groceries, late at night, etc?

 

[ginert]

Thank you! I didn't know that. That changes things. I don't quite understand ... she went to bed with one daughter, then woke up the daughter, moved her to a different bedroom, or then she went to sleep with her daughter, but why would the daughter expect to wake up with her mom next to her at 6 AM if she was put into bed with her sister?

From the interview I heard which I can't find but am still looking for, the son said the 9-year old was taken to a therepist and told them at that point she remembered being moved in the middle of the night to her sister's bed. It sounded like it was a later recollection.

 

[Nana46]

It's always good to try and find a link, even if it isn't the one you remember. That way rumors don't get started and others don't get confused.

In this case, you are mis-remembering because the costume was in the car, according to Sheriff Box.

http://www.kfvs12.com/story/15967589/loved-ones-hold-second-vigil-for-missing-mother-of-four

Dyer County Sheriff Jeff Box said Swift's Halloween costume was still in the car, but not her purse. More than 40 officers from across the state have searched for days in the rural area and have discovered some items, including clothing.

"There's some items that could possibly be tracked to her," said Box. "But we definitely need to be sure before we say they are hers."

Box said DNA tests are being done on the items


Also this article mentions clothing:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/09/karen-johnson-swift-missing-clothing_n_1084468.html

Police trying to solve the disappearance of Karen Johnson Swift have recovered her clothing, the woman's friend reports. Swift, a mother of four, has been missing since her car was found abandoned on a rural Tennessee road on Oct. 30.

"They found her Halloween costume in the car. Some other articles of clothing that belonged to her -- a pair of jeans and a gray zip-up -- were found in some brush not far from her car. They confirmed [the clothing items] belong to her. They took DNA from her mother and compared it to DNA on the clothes," Swift's friend Laura Jane told The Huffington Post.




Her friend was quoted in Huffington Post.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/09/karen-johnson-swift-missing-clothing_n_1084468.html

"Their relationship was pretty volatile," Jane said. "She wanted to leave with the kids and start over. She wouldn't leave her kids behind. That was the only reason she was still in that marriage. She wanted them to have a stable environment until she got all her stuff together."



Can't find the link to that article, but you had written that in an earlier post according to my google search. Do you remember if that was something from a TV interview or from the newspaper?


It wasn't Karen's father, it was her brother. The transcript:
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1111/21/ng.01.html

JOHNSON: The dog where her vehicle was didn`t pick her scent up out of the -- out of the area. I`m thinking that somebody else drove that vehicle there.

GRACE: That is entirely possible. Karen may never have even been in that car when it was dropped on the side of the road.

Have you learned, Jeffery Johnson, whether the car tire had the air let out of it or was it actually punctured?

JOHNSON: That`s what we haven`t gotten no answers on.



Sure, if they were asleep and he didn't want to wake them up.

Thank you Thought Fox! I don't believe anyone, especially the police here have stated any clothes that have been found are hers. There have been no reports that I am aware of from LE. They are still keeping everything they have under wraps and I understand why now. So many reports from so many people and who knows? No one does for sure except LE. I am positive they are fully aware of what clothes are or are not hers and possibly what if any clothes are missing. We cannot always rely on news reports or friends to be accurate I am sad to say. We just have to wait. Sigh. I certainly wish for the family's sake she could be found.
Sometimes I am reminded of that old telephone game...one tells the story, another hears it and then it gets added to. Hopefully we will learn something soon.This is my prayer.
Keep up the good work folks!
Edit: I also don't think we will know when or where or what the last conversation these two folks had...except when everything comes out. Some have made issue with when the report was made to the police about her being missing......I can only wonder if this has happened maybe before and that is why folks were not too alarmed at first thinking she might show up later in the day. Who knows?

 

[belimom]

I've added the sidewalk that can be seen in the aerial photo, as well as a car to give a sense of scale (don't have a Nissan). There should be stairs at the front porch, shutters and the bushes should be bigger. Not sure where the people-door is near the garage, but I think there could be one. Is there a picture of the back on the house anywhere?

Otto, you've given this a lot of thought so I'm sure you've thought of this before. But I wonder where the bedroom is that the girls were sleeping in when they woke up? I believe that if Karen were moved out of the home, it would not have been directly near the window where a child could have heard something and taken a peek, kwim? Whether is was someone leaving with Karen, or returning later.

I know there's talk about the daughter saying that *her mother* moved her, but I wonder if it were the father...? Particularly if the child were in a downstairs bedroom and he wanted her upstairs and away from the doors, etc.

We have moved our children at night and they hardly ever remember in the morning. Children sleep hard and deep, so I'm not sure that any recollection in the middle of the night of who moved her would necessarily be correct. It may be, but it may not be.

I believe that:
1) if moved by Karen, then she more than likely wanted to leave or she wanted her daughter elsewhere b/c of arguing/talking with the STBX. Perhaps she were going to leave but never made it out on her own?
2) if moved by the father, then I think it was for the reasons mentioned above.

MOO

 

[otto]

From the interview I heard which I can't find but am still looking for, the son said the 9-year old was taken to a therepist and told them at that point she remembered being moved in the middle of the night to her sister's bed. It sounded like it was a later recollection.

How unusual. How many parents put a sick child to bed and then get them up and move them? Maybe she wasn't really sick, but just wanted to come home. Why would Karen move her daughter to a different bed in the middle of the night ... why would she think that was a good idea? Is that what she usually did with a sick child in the middle of the night? Furthermore, if the child was moved to her sister's bed, then she shouldn't be surprised that her mother isn't there at 6 AM. Obviously the 9 year old was moved to a different bed and mom would sleep in a different room ... especially if she was going out and coming in really late. It doesn't add up for me.

 

[tarabull]

More from JVM transcipts 11/22:

Between 1:30 and 5 a.m., Karen gets up and moves her daughter to her little sister`s bed. And then at 5 a.m., there is a Google search, a mysterious Google search made from Karen`s phone. And then at 6 a.m., Karen is gone.

Now I don`t know about anybody else, but I don`t make Google searches at 5 in the morning for no reason. What was she looking for? Was it even her using her phone?

What do you think? I am going to take your calls: 1-877-JVM-SAYS.

Straight out to my exclusive guest, the missing woman`s son, Preston Swift.

Preston, I want to thank you for joining us. I know that you are doing everything in your power to find your mother, and I know this is extraordinarily difficult for you. Our hearts go out to you and everyone in your family. Your two kid sisters who are going through a lot. How are you and your two kid sisters holding up?

SWIFT: We`re doing pretty good. We`re doing everything we can to be together right now. They`re actually doing well. My father and I have been doing everything we can to help them deal with the situation and also to help us deal with the situation. We`ve had them in therapy. We`ve also been to some therapy. But we`re doing everything that we can to help us in this situation right now.

trying to find the video to add in here and i will when i find it...here it is compliments of Patty G: http://www.youtube.com/Sierra1947#p/u/7/TmpYCFZyk0Q

 

[Cheewawa007]

I would struggle carrying a 9 year old in my arms while trying not to wake them - maybe I'm just a weenie.

 

[otto]

Otto, you've given this a lot of thought so I'm sure you've thought of this before. But I wonder where the bedroom is that the girls were sleeping in when they woke up? I believe that if Karen were moved out of the home, it would not have been directly near the window where a child could have heard something and taken a peek, kwim? Whether is was someone leaving with Karen, or returning later.

I know there's talk about the daughter saying that *her mother* moved her, but I wonder if it were the father...? Particularly if the child were in a downstairs bedroom and he wanted her upstairs and away from the doors, etc.

We have moved our children at night and they hardly ever remember in the morning. Children sleep hard and deep, so I'm not sure that any recollection in the middle of the night of who moved her would necessarily be correct. It may be, but it may not be.

I believe that:
1) if moved by Karen, then she more than likely wanted to leave or she wanted her daughter elsewhere b/c of arguing/talking with the STBX. Perhaps she were going to leave but never made it out on her own?
2) if moved by the father, then I think it was for the reasons mentioned above.

MOO

I've been looking at Cape Cod style houses to figure out the plan, but there are a few different plans that fit into the same house footprint. I suspect that the kitchen is at the back, stairs are near the centre. Floorplans often show two bedrooms on the mainfloor on the outside sections of the house (left and right), sometimes the master bedroom on one side, two bedrooms on the other. I understand that the master bedroom is upstairs and that there are additional bedrooms upstairs. It's a toss up whether the bedrooms are on the right or the left ... a backview photo of the house would help figure it out.

I agree ... she would have had a good reason to move a child to a different bedroom in the middle of the night ... and perhaps the daughter slept through it ... perhaps the daughter knows more than she has said. For me, the reality is that there is no real reason to move a sick child out of her bed to a sister's room if one is stepping out to buy medicine or take off for a drive in the middle of the night. It wasn't like they were staying at a relative's house ... they were at home and should have been able to sleep in their own beds regardless of being sick ... even if mom stepped out for a bit. Dad was home so it wouldn't be like she was leaving children unattended.

 

[cluciano63]

Gosh, all these cases with sick children...Aliayah was sick, and supposedly moved by her mom, or her sibling was, to mom's bed...Baby Lisa was sick, yet left unchecked while Mom claims to remember checking the non-sick children...and now maybe another child moved in the night?

Just coincidences, probably, or are sick children causing some kind of extreme stress reaction in various adults??

 

[belimom]

I would struggle carrying a 9 year old in my arms while trying not to wake them - maybe I'm just a weenie.

My DS is almost 9 (in less than a week!) and I can still carry him when he's sleeping. I don't think I could carry him up a whole flight of stairs, though... at least not without waking him. I'm not in good shape right now, however, and I think that Karen is/was. For some reason, though, I still wonder how accurate that account is - that Karen moved the daughter?

 

[otto]

About the phone pinging at 5 in the morning, I don't have cell phones pinging me but my daughter does. When the internet feature is turned on in a phone, it pings with updates that depend on what you have set to ping, or automatically, update ... at least that's my understanding. I didn't think anything was unusual when I heard that the phone pinged, possibly automatically.

 

[tarabull]

Also on the subject of phone pings....

IF I am understanding correctly - an "update" from an app or server (checking email) and a "google search" would all result in a "ping"...

Correct?

 

[otto]

Also on the subject of phone pings....

IF I am understanding correctly - an "update" from an app or server (checking email) and a "google search" would all result in a "ping"...

Correct?

That's my understanding ... and it pinged on one tower, making it difficult to locate ... triangulation wasn't possible. A daily horoscope update could cause the phone to ping.

 

[dovebar]

All the posts here have been really productive for thinking this through. I agree with those who believe that

- a mother would likely not leave a sick child, except for an emergency
- we don't have any evidence of that
- it's odd that she would move a sick child into bed with her sister...

Was this because they were all staying together because she somehow felt there was more safety in numbers? Did she want them together for some reason? When sick, most kids want their own beds.
- did she plan to talk to the father, or had he said he wanted to talk with her? Was there a noise reason why she wanted the girls together - in case it got heated?

For those who are mothers, can you think of a reason for this sleeping arrangement?

 

[tarabull]

Thanks otto - so can we agree also that accept for the result of a ping - in the case of a missing persons last cell phone activity there is a HUGE difference between an update and a google search???

:furious:

 

[dovebar]

Was she in the habit of getting a morning weather update? Many morning joggers are.

 

[bendrn]

Agree, he wouldn't be away from home for long. What if both children woke up and couldn't find either parent? And they are old enough to talk to LE.

MOO

Of the many things that bothers me about this case, this one keeps creeping back to the top of the list:

My child at that age NEVER woke up at 6 am, unless it was Christmas morning. I especially can't imagine him waking up at 6 am after getting only maybe 4 hours sleep, tops, when sick to begin with.

So what woke her up at 6am?

I don't like it.