TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #12

[confused]

I just looked again and they do appear to be relatively big, however I do recall reading neighbors thought vandals perhaps moved it and IIRC MSM was reporting at one time it was possible for a person to move it..
I just don't know how there wasn't evidence of a rock that size being dragged from that point to where the jeep went off the mountain...JMHO

I saw the interview with the homeowner last night. He said they thought vandals had pushed the rock over the edge, which would explain the rock being missing and any marks or tracks that were present. He even went as far as to say he went and looked over the edge to see if he saw it, but could not because of the leaves.

Also, do we have info that proves the rock went over with Gail??? Being in a Jeep, she could have gone over, NOT taking the rock with her, and then a vandal could have been the reason the rock was moved. More coincidence, yes, but true life is normally stranger than fiction.

 

[confused]

Thank you so much. That is very interesting. Not a common last name to say the least.

It may not be a common name, but I can think of at least 5 people I personally know, with the name Helton. Somehow I don't think this lady named Helton is as big an issue as some are trying to make it.

 

[confused]

As I see it IF there is a petty "FRAY going on at other sites between people who are not even signed up to post here at WS, IMHO it doesn't belong here.
IMHO....Discussing disagreements going on somewhere else is not productive to finding out what really happened to Gail or who/what is responsible for what happened to Gail, IMHO it shouldn't be brought here..JMHO

I don't think anyone was really discussing a 'fray' going on elsewhere. We weere discussing the fact that Arlene seems to demand other people do what she wants them to. The fray was an example of this behavior.

But thanks for your opinion.

 

[Joe Friday]

Great chart, Joe Friday! Thank you.

It's hard to know the exact scale of those rocks by the road. I wonder if the one that fell was removed from the crash site? Hope so.

I would think the rock will be removed and weight to determine the force necessary to move it. That might give some indication as to how fast the Jeep had to be traveling at the time of impact.

The rock in question might also have been broken into smaller pieces from impact. You would surly think some of those pieces would be left in the grassy area and would have provided some evidence that something other than theft occurred. I know if I was the one that owned the rock and mowed that grass where it was sitting, I would have noticed the marks in the grass and maybe the smaller pieces of rock that would have broken off on impact lying in the grass after the rock disappeared. I think it is very possible that a lawn service mows that area for the land owners and perhaps they would not really care or notice if the rock was missing or pieces were now lying in the grass. The lawn service might of just pitched the broken pieces over the side of the cliff as to not damage their equipment and never gave it much thought or told the land owners. Just one less thing to trim around. It would be interesting to know if the people that live there are residents there year round or maybe use the house as a cottage, summer or vacation home.

I drive the same route home and to work everyday. I notice things out of the ordinary such as fresh tire marks were someone went into the ditch the night before or skid marks where someone had to apply the brakes to avoid an accident at one of the cross roads. If I drove the stretch of road where Gail's Jeep left the road everyday I would have noticed the rock missing. I would have also likely noticed the fresh tire tracks in the grass. I can't believe that out of all the people that live on that road no one thought it was strange or questioned that one of those rocks suddenly disappeared.

JMO

 

[confused]

One thing Confused, you have to agree that this whole situation does not make sense at all, no matter who's view you look at it from. Even with all the circumstances, if a few days after this happened and the jeep was found I would be more inclined to think this to be just one tragic accident. It just may be a tragic accident...but there are again too many red flags. 7 months to find her??????

I can't see how taking 7 months to find her has anything to do with how or why she died. If she had been buried somewhere, or found mixed into a concrete slab 7 months later, it would point to foul play, but not in this case. Car accidents happen every day. Just because there hasn't been one there before, doesn't mean there can never be one there. Also, people commit suicide daily. It's a sad fact, but it does happen, and many times the family and friends had no idea it was coming, no clues.

 

[Cuoco7]

It may not be a common name, but I can think of at least 5 people I personally know, with the name Helton. Somehow I don't think this lady named Helton is as big an issue as some are trying to make it.

It's actually a man, different address and person than what I believe you are referring. Am I allowed to mention it here?

 

[Joe Friday]

I saw the interview with the homeowner last night. He said they thought vandals had pushed the rock over the edge, which would explain the rock being missing and any marks or tracks that were present. He even went as far as to say he went and looked over the edge to see if he saw it, but could not because of the leaves.

Also, do he have info that proves the rock went over with Gail??? Being in a Jeep, she could have gone over, NOT taking the rock with her, and then a vandal could have been the reason the rock was moved. More coincidence, yes, but true life is normally stranger than fiction.

One of the reporters twittered yesterday that the homeowner also seen tire tracks when they noticed the rock missing.

Did the homeowner have an explanation for the tire tracks in the interview???

TIA

The only explanation I can think of as to why there might not be tire tracks going all the way from the road and continuing over the side of the bluff is that when the Jeep hit the rock with such great force it became airborne and flew over the grass, though the hedge and then down the mountain where it landed almost upside down, apparent from the rear end damage to the Jeep.

This would mean that perhaps there were tire tracks from the roadway up to were the rock was positioned. Giving the impression that someone backed up to the rock and possibly stole it. But who can pick up a rock that size or even roll it over the hill? IF vandals are going to get their kicks out of rolling rocks off the sides of mountains, why didn't they roll the rest of the rocks off as well? When vandals break windows they seldom only break one. There will be many cars in a neighborhood with broken windows, same goes for buildings.

 

[realdeal]

Yes, yes and yes to all of the above.

If you take just one of MP's actions, then you can justify it, but not if you look at everything as a whole.

Why would the girlfriend get a lawyer, too? I can't think of a single reason unless she was involved somehow.

Exactly!

I have a lot of acquaintances, and there is not a single one of them whose disappearance would compel me to hire a defense attorney. If TH could account for her whereabouts at the time of GP's disappearance, what possible reason would she have for one? Attorneys aren't cheap. This is a GIANT red flag, and I hope the mysterious car purchase is scrutinized carefully as a tie-in.

There was a lot at stake here. Two marriages on the rocks (yes the Heltons were still married) due to adultery and a lot of money at stake, and a lot of anger.

BTW, does anyone remember Tammy's maiden name? I am sleuthing a possible connection.

 

[Joe Friday]

I can't see how taking 7 months to find her has anything to do with how or why she died. If she had been buried somewhere, or found mixed into a concrete slab 7 months later, it would point to foul play, but not in this case. Car accidents happen every day. Just because there hasn't been one there before, doesn't mean there can never be one there. Also, people commit suicide daily. It's a sad fact, but it does happen, and many times the family and friends had no idea it was coming, no clues.

If Gail had been found within days an autopsy (more extensive than what was) could have been preformed to determine if Gail was possibly under the influence of some stimulant or perhaps had a medical issue that caused the accident such as a seizure or heart attack.

Suicide could have maybe been ruled out if it was known she died from something other than the impact, exposure to the elements or starvation.

JMO

 

[confused]

It's actually a man, different address and person than what I believe you are referring. Am I allowed to mention it here?

OK, now I am truly confused (ha ha) I thought we were talking about the lady, Diane Helton, who was quoted talking about how scary driving was on the brow when it was raining or foggy. What man are you talking about?

 

[confused]

One of the reporters twittered yesterday that the homeowner also seen tire tracks when they noticed the rock missing.

Did the homeowner have an explanation for the tire tracks in the interview???

TIA

The only explanation I can think of as to why there might not be tire tracks going all the way from the road and continuing over the side of the bluff is that when the Jeep hit the rock with such great force it became airborne and flew over the grass, though the hedge and then down the mountain where it landed almost upside down, apparent from the rear end damage to the Jeep.

This would mean that perhaps there were tire tracks from the roadway up to were the rock was positioned. Giving the impression that someone backed up to the rock and possibly stole it. But who can pick up a rock that size or even roll it over the hill? IF vandals are going to get their kicks out of rolling rocks off the sides of mountains, why didn't they roll the rest of the rocks off as well?

My understanding of what the man said was that he thought someone had either pulled in or backed in and pushed it off, just to be mean and vandalize. He said he noticed it missing and did see the tracks, but looked over and didn't see anything abnormal looking, so pretty much didn't persue it any further. He didn't state when he noticed...if it was a day later, a week later or a month later.

 

[MsFacetious]

If Gail had been found within days an autopsy (more extensive than what was) could have been preformed to determine if Gail was possibly under the influence of some stimulant or perhaps had a medical issue that caused the accident such as a seizure or heart attack.

Suicide could have maybe been ruled out if it was known she died from something other than the impact, exposure to the elements or starvation.

JMO

Or of course strangulation... which might not be possible to rule out with her remains being scattered.

 

[realdeal]

Why does everyone think if she stopped at the store, she went in and shopped??? Could be she was sitting there making her mind up to do ??? Or, she could have been talking on the phone, writing a note to the children, or just crying. No one has said (that I have seen) that she got out, grabbed a cart and started shopping.

This is why I asked do we have a tape? You are correct; she may not have been shoppng; that would be helpful info. If she were sitting in her car crying, that would also be helpful info.

 

[realdeal]

I believe that Matt has been much more open and forthright with the LE than any of us knows. They continue to state that he is cooperating fully and my guess is that they have worked together thus far. We, the public, are the ones who are not owed any explaination or information, although most of us seem to expect it and get very bent out of shape that we are not getting it.

"he had such anger and disdain for" where did you get the idea that he had anger and disdain for Gail? My guess (and I could be wrong, please let me know if so) is that you are basing your statement on the words Arlene repeats each time she's on tv. Let me ask...has anyone else, any of Gail's friends or Matt's friends said anything similar?? We have several on this forum who know both or them, and have even had them as guests in their homes. NO ONE else has said that they EVER heard Matt utter a hateful word to Gail. NO ONE.

As for your last statement...I agree. I desperately wish that Gail was still with us, with her children.

No, he has not been cooperative. Refusing to let the children talk is far from cooperative. If he had truly wanted Gail found, he should have begged the children for clues.

And you seriously don't know about the anger? Somehow I hd gotten the impression you were somewhat local. Yes indeed MP was livid, and not only MP but his family. All of them were hoping GP would just roll over in submission while he took her to the cleaners. When he realized he would not be allowed to keep GP and her money along with the woman on the side, he was not a happy camper. He and his little crew went out of their way to paint her in a bad light, with very misleading info, to anyone and everyone, including the press. This is common knowlege on the mountain, with or without Arlene's input.

 

[Emeralgem]

Here is a video with a neighbor from yesterday... This gentleman also stated in a blip that was aired on tv (that for some reason is not in this report) that he didn't understand how this could have happened unless it was intentional..

http://www.wrcbtv.com/global/catego...d=6518443&topVideoCatNo=123979&autoStart=true

 

[OldSteve]

Would like to know if the large rock had gone over the cliff sometime before (days, weeks) before her car went over... in other words do we know the rock was really there to act as a barrier, or was the spot simply unsafe because it wasn't there?

 

[confused]

If Gail had been found within days an autopsy (more extensive than what was) could have been preformed to determine if Gail was possibly under the influence of some stimulant or perhaps had a medical issue that caused the accident such as a seizure or heart attack.

Suicide could have maybe been ruled out if it was known she died from something other than the impact, exposure to the elements or starvation.

JMO

Yes, I understand that, but that is not really what the original comment said. Here is the copy/paste of a portion of it.

"Even with all the circumstances, if a few days after this happened and the jeep was found I would be more inclined to think this to be just one tragic accident. It just may be a tragic accident...but there are again too many red flags. 7 months to find her?????? "

Why would having a tragic accident make the Jeep more easily found? No matter the reason for it going over the side there, it was difficult to find, and I don't think it would have been easier had Gail just lost control and went over. That was the reason for my original comment.

 

[Joe Friday]

Would like to know if the large rock had gone over the cliff sometime before (days, weeks) before her car went over... in other words do we know the rock was really there to act as a barrier, or was the spot simply unsafe because it wasn't there?

I think damage to the Jeep and the rock from impacting each other will be able to prove that the Jeep was what caused of the rock to be moved, signifying that the rock was present at the time the Jeep went over the side of the mountain.

There should be paint transfer on the rock and scuff marks on the Jeep making it very easy to determine they in fact collided with each other.

JMO

 

[believe09]

It's actually a man, different address and person than what I believe you are referring. Am I allowed to mention it here?

No, we dont name people who have not been clearly identified as case players.

 

[believe09]

Then he didn't, and it was just a freak accident.

But long before this we had the fact that MP allowed his attorney to (a) say to the press that Gail was "f--d up" and to (b) have computers removed and wiped clean that should have been included in the home search. Those are puzzling actions. I assume MP sanctioned whatever his attorneys did and said.

http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_203652.asp

He also said he spoke to a couple in Hoover, Ala., who said Ms. Palmgren "had a psychotic episode" while at their house a week before she disappeared.

Attorney Davis said Ms. Palmgren "showed up uninvited" and spent two nights with the family friends.

He said the husband, an attorney, told him, "Gail was flat f----- up. She was out of her mind."


http://timesfreepress.com/news/2011/jul/08/missing-palmgren-computers-turned-over-defense-att/

When Hamilton County Sheriff’s Office detectives entered the Signal Mountain home of a missing woman a couple of weeks ago, the family’s computers were missing.

The computers instead had been turned over to Lee Davis, an attorney representing Matthew Palmgren, the husband of Gail Palmgren, the 44-year-old mother of two who has been missing since April 30.

Davis said in an interview Thursday that the computer hard drives have been sent to technicians to see if any files or history can be recovered that might lead to Gail Palmgren.

“We’ve sent them off to see what’s on them,” he said. “Obviously, if files have been deleted, they’ve been deleted.”

:waitasec:

Not to put too fine a point on it, but we have Gail's friend AD pretty much confirming that Gail was being treated with medications, seen by a therapist of some kind and was decimated by the state of her marriage.

I think we have seen a tremendous data dump of personal information all the way around. I am certain many will see AD's data dump as noble and MP's ATTY's data dump as dastardly.

The thing is, all sides have played this out in the media with the exception of Gails immediate family.

There is too much we dont know, imo. Who deleted the files if files were deleted. I mean, what if it was Gail who deleted files? What if MP deleted files that pertained to things outside of his wife's disappearance? What if no files were deleted at all?

We still have the blackbox of a DVR/Security System Recording that was supposed to be the missing link.

Since reading the media about the refusal to turn it over, I havent heard anything more about it.

The prelim reports are completed I expect. HCSO will make sure that they have an accurate idea of what happened.

I think Matt was a rotten husband, but I (personally) think it is quite a stretch to believe that he had her killed or killed her himself.


I cannot think of a good reason why she was still laying out there. My heart breaks for those who are going to miss her terribly until the end of time...especially her children.