General theory thread and motives rehashed #5

[lonetraveler]

Probably not because what really happened to Haleigh and what Tommy and Misty know isnt the REAL truth. jmo

Let me see if we are thinking the same. I have always thought that Tommy and Misty only know what they have been told by someone who does know the real truth. This, IMO, is why this case is totally stalled. LE is still waiting to get "blood from a turnip" ie., getting Misty and/or Tommy to lead them to Haleigh and it ain't going to happen because they can't. They don't know where Haleigh is or really what happened to her. It is way past time for LE to investigate the real perps in Haleigh's death and disposal.

Am I close?

It would be nice if LE were willing to hear that someone on Ron's side of the blanket gave them the information that they do have.

 

[lonetraveler]

Did we ever hear what was in that box? (it was referred to in this article).

I've read an explanation that the blue box seen floating on the water during the dive search is used to put any objects or evidence while searching the bottom.

 

[4Jacy]

Does anyone know why Tommy Croslin was moved to another prison? Protection maybe? Should I dare hope that he might want to give some credible information about who was involved in Haleigh's death and disposal? Will he spill the beans on the Cummings side of the blanket?

Dear lone, after all this time, I just don't think so. I truly believe that TC is extremely mentally disturbed. I just don't think anyone will believe him anymore.

 

[cobiabanks]

Does anyone know why Tommy Croslin was moved to another prison? Protection maybe? Should I dare hope that he might want to give some credible information about who was involved in Haleigh's death and disposal? Will he spill the beans on the Cummings side of the blanket?

I see he was moved to Lawtey. I didn't know that. Thanks for the info.

 

[cobiabanks]

I'm going to have to disagree with the portion of this post that I have bolded. I'm not so sure that there is that much difference between these two. Steven K. Brown, in his own way, caused untold agony on both of the families of Haleigh Cummings by presenting what he should have known were lies from someone he knew for a fact had miserably failed a polygraph examination FIVE DAYS before the Shell Harbor search fiasco began. According to a press release from James Werter, he and/or Steven K. Brown met with Tommy Croslin on two different occasions to discuss the results of this failed exam.



Both James Werter and Steven Brown KNEW Tommy Croslin had miserably failed a polygraph exam, but they did NOT reveal this information to the FDLE, FBI, PCSO or the SA at the meeting they set up for Tommy Croslin to spin his web of lies under their "guidance".



Even with a full and much discussed knowledge of their client’s story being a LIE, this attorney and his “investigator” played central roles in relaying his tale to Law Enforcement. Do you really think the Shell Harbor search and it’s massive expense would have ever happened had the miserably failed polygraph results ever been revealed by “THEM”?

As a direct result of the presentment of these lies by Tommy Croslin, an officer of the court, and an ex FBI agent, the Shell Harbor search began at 10:00 AM, Tuesday, April 13, 2010.

More importantly, THIS would have never happened:

Prior to the search beginning, the families of Haleigh Cummings were called into the Sheriff of Putnam County's office and were told that Haleigh was dead and that their investigation was now one of homicide.



I'm sorry that I didn't save the picture of a distraught Teresa Neves coming out of that meeting, but I do have this one of Haleigh's mother, Crystal Sheffield, moments after exiting the door. This picture defines agony.

What you are unable to see in this picture is the cell phone in the lady's hand who is trying to console Crystal. What I have told no one prior to this is that I was on a call from the person this lady called. Her call was answered on a speaker phone and I heard the chilling words that haunt me to this day from Crystal Sheffield. "JOE KILLED MY BABY".

At almost the exact moment I was hearing those words, Steven K Brown was in front of a television camera proclaiming he had "Solved The Case". He even tried to state a case of deserving the reward while he was on the witness stand during Tommy Croslin's sentencing hearing!

My anger and disgust with this attorney, his “investigator”, and their lying client knows no bounds.

Well, Concerned Papa. It's too bad you're so misinformed about the facts that led up to the Shell Harbor search. Perhaps if you knew that the FDLE, FBI, PCSO, States Attorney's Office, Werter, and Brown all sincerely believed that the basic story that Tommy told which led to the Shell Harbor search was true, and the question that Tommy flunked on that lie detector test pointed also to the truthfulness of Tommy's Shell Harbor story then maybe your opinion would change. All of those experienced law enforcement and legal professionals believed the basic story that Haleigh had gone into the water at Shell Harbor. And there is no proof that she didn't. The fact that she wasn't there a year and a half later doesn't mean she wasn't put in that water on Feb 10 2009.

As for Werter and Brown thinking Tommy's story was a lie and they mislead LE. That's just a pure fabrication. They bought into Tommy's story just as much as LE did. And Tommy's story may be true. Certainly parts of it are if not all of it. Although in my opinion I doubt that all of it was true, just because I don't think Tommy is capable of being completely honest.

As for me, I'd say at this point it is 50/50 as to whether Haleigh went into the water or not, but that's just my opinion. As to actually who killed her? Well, take your pick. I think maybe you should redirect your "anger and disgust" toward those who actually killed Haleigh, and away from those who have been working pro bono to find these killers.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

:seeya::seeya:

 

[dodie20]

Well, Concerned Papa. It's too bad you're so misinformed about the facts that led up to the Shell Harbor search. Perhaps if you knew that the FDLE, FBI, PCSO, States Attorney's Office, Werter, and Brown all sincerely believed that the basic story that Tommy told which led to the Shell Harbor search was true, and the question that Tommy flunked on that lie detector test pointed also to the truthfulness of Tommy's Shell Harbor story then maybe your opinion would change. All of those experienced law enforcement and legal professionals believed the basic story that Haleigh had gone into the water at Shell Harbor. And there is no proof that she didn't. The fact that she wasn't there a year and a half later doesn't mean she wasn't put in that water on Feb 10 2009.

As for Werter and Brown thinking Tommy's story was a lie and they mislead LE. That's just a pure fabrication. They bought into Tommy's story just as much as LE did. And Tommy's story may be true. Certainly parts of it are if not all of it. Although in my opinion I doubt that all of it was true, just because I don't think Tommy is capable of being completely honest.

As for me, I'd say at this point it is 50/50 as to whether Haleigh went into the water or not, but that's just my opinion. As to actually who killed her? Well, take your pick. I think maybe you should redirect your "anger and disgust" toward those who actually killed Haleigh, and away from those who have been working pro bono to find these killers.

I've been wondering if Tommy's failed question(s), was part of what led to the search. Since we don't know what he was asked, it's impossible to guess. But, if LE or FBI wanted a 100% honest story, before they searched, they could have retested him. The fact that they didn't, shows, IMO, that there was something to his story. It's close, IMO.

 

[Concerned Papa]

Well, Concerned Papa. It's too bad you're so misinformed about the facts that led up to the Shell Harbor search. Perhaps if you knew that the FDLE, FBI, PCSO, States Attorney's Office, Werter, and Brown all sincerely believed that the basic story that Tommy told which led to the Shell Harbor search was true, and the question that Tommy flunked on that lie detector test pointed also to the truthfulness of Tommy's Shell Harbor story then maybe your opinion would change. All of those experienced law enforcement and legal professionals believed the basic story that Haleigh had gone into the water at Shell Harbor. And there is no proof that she didn't. The fact that she wasn't there a year and a half later doesn't mean she wasn't put in that water on Feb 10 2009.

As for Werter and Brown thinking Tommy's story was a lie and they mislead LE. That's just a pure fabrication. They bought into Tommy's story just as much as LE did. And Tommy's story may be true. Certainly parts of it are if not all of it. Although in my opinion I doubt that all of it was true, just because I don't think Tommy is capable of being completely honest.

As for me, I'd say at this point it is 50/50 as to whether Haleigh went into the water or not, but that's just my opinion. As to actually who killed her? Well, take your pick. I think maybe you should redirect your "anger and disgust" toward those who actually killed Haleigh, and away from those who have been working pro bono to find these killers.

Which part am I misinformed about?

-The FACT that TC miserably failed a polygraph five days before the Shell Harbor search began, according to his own attorney's press release?

-The FACT that both Werter and Brown had met with Croslin on two different occasions, discussing his polygraph, AFTER his miserable failure but PRIOR to telling his tale to LE under their "guidance", according to his own attorney's press release?

-The FACT that, according to the link I provided, neither an officer of the court nor an ex fbi agent TOLD LE about this failed polygraph?

-The FACT that Steven K. Brown was in front of a television camera claiming he had "solved the case" practically before the first diver hit the water at Shell Harbor?

As for my anger and disgust, according to Steven K. Brown himself, I'm apparently not alone in that sentiment:

http://handcuffedtotheocean.com/?p=485#comment-1170

 

[Dr. Know?]

I think it has taken a whole lot of posters to provide what info we do know. I don't take many things at face value though because most is rumor. Depends on the source and some have connections that could sway my op but that was about 2 years ago, I see nothing towards progress other than?

As far as this PI, Steve Brown, trying to solve Haleigh's murder, jumps in what 10 months after she's missing, might have ridden the coatails of some with a wittle bit of info. Wittle bit of info from anyone connected to this case high or low has not found Haleigh nor proved who is responsible yet! So stomp your foot, it's old news. jmo

ah, ego.

 

[Concerned Papa]

Am I the only one it strikes a bit odd that, out of several parents at the bus stop on February 9, 2009, someone who had no children even riding the bus is the ONLY person stating they saw Ronald Cummings at the bus stop?

Is it just me, or does it seem even more strange that this person would be Chelsea Croslin?

 

[Chablis]

Am I the only one it strikes a bit odd that, out of several parents at the bus stop on February 9, 2009, someone who had no children even riding the bus is the ONLY person stating they saw Ronald Cummings at the bus stop?

Is it just me, or does it seem even more strange that this person would be Chelsea Croslin?

Anything Chelsea says is not credible, shes a known stoner. If she knew anything about what happened to Haleigh she would be in prison, targeted, in no matter what state she "fled" to. People who abuse marijuana, have bad memory, it affects alot of things. Shes a lot of things but shes not a baby killer and no way she would keep info or cover for Ron, no way. Unless she was pregnant with his child at the time, and had some weird agenda, which I HIGHLY doubt. jmo

 

[dodie20]

Am I the only one it strikes a bit odd that, out of several parents at the bus stop on February 9, 2009, someone who had no children even riding the bus is the ONLY person stating they saw Ronald Cummings at the bus stop?

Is it just me, or does it seem even more strange that this person would be Chelsea Croslin?

Yes, I find it odd, and she's one of the main reasons, I don't believe the story. Ron's lawyer said he still had several people putting Ron at the bus stop...so, I guess those people were CC, Misty, Ron himself, and TN? They're the only ones I've heard this version from. I don't really see CC protecting Ron...so, that leaves Misty, for some reason. When Ron made his deal, this is some of the informarion that LE was after, IMO...and when LE made their statement about Ron not being truthful, this is what I think they were referring to. Some people think who picked Haleigh up is beside the point...I disagree. MOO.

 

[Whisperer]

I think Mr. Brown had a working theory and believed tommy. He was most likely convinced they would find some evidence of the crime at Shell Harbor. Hardy thought the same, as he said, "This could very well be the scene of the crime".

Sheriff Hardy and an ex-FBI man may be correct. If that rope was found there, there is a good possibility that tommy told the truth regarding the disposal. We just don't know what they found in that water. If nothing was found in the water, all they have are working theories. Apparently both men expected to find evidence in that river. That means to me that tommy may have passed the question concerning Haleigh in the river.

 

[Whisperer]

Now I'd like to figure out what made Chelsea go to the bus stop. She claims to have seen rc behind the wheel but did she? The windows were heavily tinted. She wants to put misty there...but she didn't see her. She tries to tell us she was hiding in the back.

Ron says he was outside and Haleigh came "running and jumped into his arms'. He likes to create drama so I give that picture no credence and chalk it up to his "Walton Family Moments" scenarios that he loves to paint. Ron gives way too much detail in the hours 3:30pm to 4:30pm that day...

Chelsea said RC never got out of the car. misty says she was home with a sleeping Jr.

Every single fact in this case has three stories...all conflicting. Polygraph machines must shiver and choke when rc, tommy or misty get hooked up.

I'm betting Chelsea was at the bus stop. I bet they couldn't find misty and she was there to pick up tommy's kids. It was mistaken identity by the witness that swears he saw misty. It was probably Chelsea.

 

[KSH352]

Does anyone know why Tommy Croslin was moved to another prison? Protection maybe? Should I dare hope that he might want to give some credible information about who was involved in Haleigh's death and disposal? Will he spill the beans on the Cummings side of the blanket?

I have no idea why he was moved to Lawtey. I know a correctional officer that worked there. I understand this is a religious type prison and a work release type prison. From what I was told quite different from the prison he was in. This prison is about an hour to Palatka. So looks like his family, if still in this area, could visit often. I do know the Florida prison system does not move prisoners so they can be close to family.

I did some asking about transfers to different prisons and was told a prisoner can request a change but that usually never happens. So I am a bit courious as to why myself.

 

[dodie20]

I'm acquainted with a lady whose bf got a 30 year sentence, and he was transferred for the sole purpose, of being closer to home...but this is Texas. What you said about this new prison being religious, piqued my interest. In a jail tape, Tommy said he had found religion and was corresponding with some group, I think. Also, when he was sentenced, he said something about God, being with him. Maybe I'm gullible, but I believe he was serious. Could he have been moved to accomodate his religion? Would Florida give a hoot? If a Florida inmate gets sick, do they care enough to transfer him? According to his mugshot info, his weight seems ok, but he could be suffering from something, I guess. But, considering the way I view Tommy, this is what I think is possible...LE hasn't forgotten him, and they want him closer to them. MOO

 

[4Jacy]

I'm acquainted with a lady whose bf got a 30 year sentence, and he was transferred for the sole purpose, of being closer to home...but this is Texas. What you said about this new prison being religious, piqued my interest. In a jail tape, Tommy said he had found religion and was corresponding with some group, I think. Also, when he was sentenced, he said something about God, being with him. Maybe I'm gullible, but I believe he was serious. Could he have been moved to accomodate his religion? Would Florida give a hoot? If a Florida inmate gets sick, do they care enough to transfer him? According to his mugshot info, his weight seems ok, but he could be suffering from something, I guess. But, considering the way I view Tommy, this is what I think is possible...LE hasn't forgotten him, and they want him closer to them. MOO

dodie, that's what I love about you, you have so much faith. God bless you. I have a lot of faith also, but not in Tommy. I truly believe he will say, do, sway, anyone and everyone to a get out of jail free card. Sorry!

 

[dodie20]

Anything Chelsea says is not credible, shes a known stoner. If she knew anything about what happened to Haleigh she would be in prison, targeted, in no matter what state she "fled" to. People who abuse marijuana, have bad memory, it affects alot of things. Shes a lot of things but shes not a baby killer and no way she would keep info or cover for Ron, no way. Unless she was pregnant with his child at the time, and had some weird agenda, which I HIGHLY doubt. jmo

You manage to get a chuckle out of me, more often than not, lol. I have to admit that I've wondered what her agenda was, more than once. In one interview, she talked about what a great father Ron was, and in the next, she cussed him, and said she couldn't stand him!!! In one interview, she said there were never any drugs around the house, but then in another interview, she said there were drugs in his drawers...drawers she later claimed were nonexistant. MOO.

 

[4Jacy]

You manage to get a chuckle out of me, more often than not, lol. I have to admit that I've wondered what her agenda was, more than once. In one interview, she talked about what a great father Ron was, and in the next, she cussed him, and said she couldn't stand him!!! In one interview, she said there were never any drugs around the house, but then in another interview, she said there were drugs in his drawers...drawers she later claimed were nonexistant. MOO.

Thank you dodie. May I barf now? This girl (Cc) is sooo out of touch. She is sooo delusional! However, I do believe she knows where her husband and Tommy were that night! REMEMBER: Lindsay telling Tommy that she (LC) got RID of Timmy/Tommy's boots. WHY would that ever be in a conversation?

 

[cobiabanks]

Now I'd like to figure out what made Chelsea go to the bus stop. She claims to have seen rc behind the wheel but did she? The windows were heavily tinted. She wants to put misty there...but she didn't see her. She tries to tell us she was hiding in the back.

Ron says he was outside and Haleigh came "running and jumped into his arms'. He likes to create drama so I give that picture no credence and chalk it up to his "Walton Family Moments" scenarios that he loves to paint. Ron gives way too much detail in the hours 3:30pm to 4:30pm that day...

Chelsea said RC never got out of the car. misty says she was home with a sleeping Jr.

Every single fact in this case has three stories...all conflicting. Polygraph machines must shiver and choke when rc, tommy or misty get hooked up.

I'm betting Chelsea was at the bus stop. I bet they couldn't find misty and she was there to pick up tommy's kids. It was mistaken identity by the witness that swears he saw misty. It was probably Chelsea.

Whisperer, you seem pretty level headed. Explain to me why it makes any difference if Ron or Misty were at the bus stop or not?