17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #7

[flourish]

Everybody - you need to calm down. You need to breathe. This thread has had so many alerts a team of mods cannot keep up.

We understand it is a hot topic and everyone feels passionately about their side of the fence.

When comparing this case to others - try to be sure you are comparing apples to apples. The major complaint in this case, that has caused it to be a case of national importance, is the fact that no one was arrested for the shooting. Comparing it to cases where the perp was arrested is comparing apples to oranges. Those cases don't make national news because LE did their jobs, investigated and arrested someone.

Also, comparing it to cases where there was a trial is comparing apples to oranges - there has not even been an arrest here, so it does not compare to a case that was decided by a jury.

Please try to post responsibly. This is an important discussion, for the entire country. Just pulling things out of thin air, spouting off to fan the flames, and linking to information, pictures, etc. that are clearly not of the parties in this case is just plain inflammatory - we don't need that. This case is emotional enough without looking for ways to make it even more sensational.

Breathe, think about what you are saying and posting. Be sure it is pertinent, linkable if it is not your opinion, and said respectfully. Everybody gets a voice, as long as they post their voice responsibly.

Thank you,

Salem

Just a randomly placed :bump: so this is in the forefront of our minds when posting

 

[Sensei]

As GZ was returning to his vehicle, TM came up behind GZ and SPOKE to him saying "do you have a problem?"

So it would seem logical that GZ turned to face TM when he answered that he did not, and TM said well you do now and punched GZ in the face.

Yes, if you believe this new sanitized version, and discount the earlier version made by Police Chief Lee. I don't believe either version without more actual evidence of the forensic sort, since that doesn't lie or have an agenda, sadly I am afraid that some of that was lost due to negligence and or intent. IMO JMHO and stuff

 

[jaxibear]

It's the only picture of GZ they were able to get ahold of because it is public record. The other one was released by his company. The media also released that one but not without permission as the picture belongs to the company GZ works for. I would think the media asked for a picture of TM, too and I can't imagine a family member having to sort through pictures to find one that would guarantee they would not have to deal with criticizm as to how they tried to deceive the public because their son looks young and innocent in the picture. Grief does not make you think that way. jmo

I agree. Most likely, his parents picked a picture that was easy to find. Perhaps it was a framed picture, a favorite, or one of the first ones in an album. I just looked around at the framed pictures in my house. Most of them are favorites and are a few years old.

 

[oh_gal]

Zimmerman lost any sense of being "reasonable" when he exited his vehicle and went after Trayvon with a gun.

It doesn't matter how you spin it, Trayvon is the victim here.

The Sanford PD failed its community when it started portraying itself as Zimmerman's defense team.

jmo

I am not comfortable calling anyone a victim, until I have more facts. It is unfortunate that we may never get all the facts.

 

[joedotnet]

The stand your ground law can play both ways. In my eyes, TM was "standing his ground" and GZ could have been seen as the aggressor by TM.

Sent from my SGH-i937 using Board Express

 

[m00c0w]

I hope that the police chief in charge of the investigation of a shooting is held to his publicly made statements about a case more closely than a grief-stricken family who has just lost a child. Moo

I would say that a gaffe in confusing "attacked" and "approached" would more more apparently a gaffe than clearly saying someone was suspended for reasons other than what was truthful. JMO

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Yes, if you believe this new sanitized version, and discount the earlier version made by Police Chief Lee. I don't believe either version without more actual evidence of the forensic sort, since that doesn't lie or have an agenda, sadly I am afraid that some of that was lost due to negligence and or intent. IMO JMHO and stuff

Right, and this latest version is being leaked by a PD that has had the case taken away from them by the state.

 

[miimaa]

BBM

Zimmerman said Martin had his hand in his waistband. He reported that to the 911

911 call http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL72w4xiTVU&feature=youtu.be

I meant these parts......... bolded by me

So Zimmerman thinking Martin might be armed runs after him chasing a teen he thinks might be armed.

I bet he was pumped up with adrenaline ready for Martin to pull that gun at any time.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I meant these parts......... bolded by me

It was purely speculation as evidenced in the post.

 

[HiHater]

The lead homicide investigator in the shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin recommended that neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter the night of the shooting, multiple sources told ABC News.

So much for a rock solid case, huh?

Police brought Zimmerman into the station for questioning for a few hours on the night of the shooting, said Zimmerman's attorney, despite his request for medical attention first. Ultimately they had to accept Zimmerman's claim of self defense. He was never charged with a crime.

So, now Zimmerman is alleging that he was denied medical care. I'm guessing there won't be a waiver produced...


Serino filed an affidavit on Feb. 26, the night that Martin was shot and killed by Zimmerman, that stated he was unconvinced Zimmerman's version of events. (sic)

:waitasec:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-ma...n-manslaughter/story?id=16011674#.T3IVXdU_LQ2

Red/bold by me...

 

[miimaa]

It was purely speculation as evidenced in the post.

oh sorry

 

[wishuwerehere]

I am not comfortable calling anyone a victim, until I have more facts. It is unfortunate that we may never get all the facts.

Continue to be uncomfortable then, Trayvon is the victim here.

Trayvon is NOT the one who followed Zimmerman around the neighborhood with a gun. It's the other way around. Zimmerman was supposed to "observe" and "report" according to neighborhood watch rules. No guns are supposed to be involved with neighborhood watchmen. And now Trayvon is dead.

jmo

 

[LambChop]

BEM: Is this meant to be facetious?

I've heard accounts from witnesses that Zimmerman was in shock after this happened, which would make perfect sense. He was handcuffed immediately, elected, as far as we know, not to be taken to the hospital - which would have helped his self defense pleading, but he was not thinking that way, IMO. Instead, he was taken to the station for questioning, and he cooperated - this *vigilante monster (*facetious).

Oh, if he were in shock the EMT would have never released him but called for an ambulance. You can die from shock, go into a coma. If his wound was that severe they would know if he truly was in shock. There is a difference between being shocked and being in shock. I think we need a nurse here to explain the difference. jmo

 

[oh_gal]

Yes, if you believe this new sanitized version, and discount the earlier version made by Police Chief Lee. I don't believe either version without more actual evidence of the forensic sort, since that doesn't lie or have an agenda, sadly I am afraid that some of that was lost due to negligence and or intent. IMO JMHO and stuff

One version coming out earlier and one coming out later does not make one more credible over the other. The fact that this young man's family is trying to get the "I am Treyvan"phrase registered (if true) would explain why they don't want any of the less palatable aspects of their son's life coming to light -- I know it would make me angry to see all that potential money going down the drain. Everyone wants to embrace them when they feel their son is a sweet, innocent young guy; less so when he's been shown to get into fights and is suspended from school for drugs. But some of those facts, if true, need to be made known, because they paint a picture of a young man, prone to confrontations, and possibly, violence, himself. Behavior that could support a self-defense plea.

 

[LillieBelle]

I don't think the path we see is the one he necessarily took. There could be backways, trails, cut throughs...without knowing the area, no one can really map that out accurately.

I also wouldn't expect a 13 year old to connect the dots (brother not home-ambulances outside-trouble)...He may have been told not to leave the house or to go outside..

JMO MOO IMO

Looking at the Google map, there doesn't really look like any cut throughs, since it is a gated complex, he would have had to leave via the front and-next door is another housing complex (gated also?), then looks like a waterway of some sort. When I take a look, I don't see any probable backways etc. Or maybe the map isn't showing the 711 he went to, seems like a really long walk, maybe there is one closer, maybe the opposite direction.

 

[rotterdam]

I'm curious, the police have said TM attacked Zimmerman from behind when Zimmerman was walking back to his truck, not toward TM. Why do you feel this is not a possibility? Why is it not possible that Zimmerman is telling the truth. This doesn't change the fact that Zimmerman had been following Trayvon or that Zimmerman had a gun, or even that he should have been arrested.

Unless it was captured by surveillance cameras or some still unknown (reliable)eye witness saw the whole thing, I am afraid we will never really know. All we have is GZ's account and Tray's GF from Miami that contradict GZ's account IMO.
And I suspect there is no surveillance tape that was usable. That community was on the decline. Half the folks were renters and property values dropped from 250K to 100K. Doubt if any money was spent on maintenance for fancy surveillance at multiple locations..

 

[flourish]

One version coming out earlier and one coming out later does not make one more credible over the other. The fact that this young man's family is trying to get the "I am Treyvan"phrase registered (if true) would explain why they don't want any of the less palatable aspects of their son's life coming to light -- I know it would make me angry to see all that potential money going down the drain. Everyone wants to embrace them when they feel their son is a sweet, innocent young guy; less so when he's been shown to get into fights and is suspended from school for drugs. But some of those facts, if true, need to be made known, because they paint a picture of a young man, prone to confrontations, and possibly, violence, himself. Behavior that could support a self-defense plea.

RBBM
Link supporting your assertions, please.

 

[Sensei]

:waitasec:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-ma...n-manslaughter/story?id=16011674#.T3IVXdU_LQ2

Red/bold by me...

There won't be a waiver produced, there won't be photographs of these awful injuries, and all that is left is the statement by a Police Officer who is going to say he actually had these injuries....and I don't trust Sanford PD, any of them as far as I could manage to throw all of them at once IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[m00c0w]

Oh, if he were in shock the EMT would have never released him but called for an ambulance. You can die from shock, go into a coma. If his wound was that severe they would know if he truly was in shock. There is a difference between being shocked and being in shock. I think we need a nurse here to explain the difference. jmo

Shock isn't necessarily easy to diagnose or see; this is why it's so dangerous. You can be in shock and not even realize it. With everything that was going on, it may have been easily overlooked.

 

[m00c0w]

:waitasec:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-ma...n-manslaughter/story?id=16011674#.T3IVXdU_LQ2

Red/bold by me...

I believe this is just as relevant:

But Sanford, Fla., Investigator Chris Serino was instructed to not press charges against Zimmerman because the state attorney's office headed by Norman Wolfinger determined there wasn't enough evidence to lead to a conviction, the sources told ABC News.

BBM