17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #14

[GrandmaTo4]

The word "need" means "to have need of; require." Don't do that = "Don't do that" but that is not what was said, the word "need" was added which changed the meaning, IMO, entirely. In a court of law, the fact that it was not a clear, direct order and that it could be open to interpretation will be on GZ's side.

Also, according to GZ he did stop following TM. He claims that he was on his way back to his car when he was attacked from behind. As far as I know, there is no evidence that proves otherwise.

FWIW, I agree with you, the dispatcher should have said "Stop and get back in your car, immediately." But I also believe that these SYG-type laws are giving so-called "loose cannons" free rein and the laws need to be revised ASAP.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

No matter the semantics of the dispatcher, the neighborhood watch rules are absolutely NO GUNS.

The watch coordinator stated that the rules are even clearly posted in the clubhouse.

Was Zimmerman patrolling, watching, stalking?

He sure wasn't in his truck on the way to Target.

imo

 

[MarthaM]

I am very bothered by how the media has portrayed this. Showing pictures of TM that were several years old but made him look childlike, young, innocent. Showing one picture of GZ that was several years old but made him look to be large, criminal, dangerous. In reality the two were 10 pounds different in weight and TM the taller of the two.

When it comes to pictures, I think the media showed what they had. With a breaking story, you go with whatever is available; you don't wait for better/current pictures. And it doesn't seem that there are a lot of pictures of Zimmerman out there, so showing that one picture of him shouldn't be surprising. It's what they have. This is not a concern for me.

Why does the media insist on referring to GZ as a WHITE Hispanic?

Again, not a concern for me. It's probably because 'white' is a race, and 'hispanic' is an ethnicity. I've had to check my race on a lot of forms over my lifetime, and I remember that many of them just said white, black, Asian, Other (maybe Native American was another).

The story coming from TM's father about the Skittles is gospel but things said by GZ's father, friend, brother are doubted. Everything GZ is doubted.

Well, he did have Skittles on him when he was killed. I'm not sure where you're going with this one--that they weren't for his brother or something?

But yes, there's a lot of doubt about things Zimmerman and his family, maybe-friend have said. When things don't add up, there's going to be doubt. We may not have as much evidence (yet) as we would like, but we do have some. Really, the evidence Zimmerman himself left (the 911 calls and his actions that night) is all I need. Whatever his family translates all of that to doesn't help him or hurt him for me--it's really not terribly important stuff, just people spinning.

GZ was on his way the store when he saw TM. He was not out that night looking to hunt anyone down 'like a dog' yet the media plays up.

I haven't really seen the media overall saying that he was out hunting anyone down. Maybe I don't watch the right channels; I don't have cable. I don't think Zimmerman was out to kill someone that night; but I do think that he took his usual over-zealous Watch stuff to the next level that night and did kill a young man out of some kind of need for power and control.

Could events have happened just as GZ claimed and that is why he was not arrested? LE did speak to an eyewitness at the scene that verified what GZ said happened yet people don't want to believe that. People want to believe that LE is engaging in a cover up.

Anything's possible, but that doesn't make it probable. I think his 911 calls are Zimmerman's biggest problem.

Regardless, I'd be concerned any time anybody shoots somebody else and gets to go home so quickly. Whether there's an LE coverup, I don't know, but it's certainly possible as that's hardly a new concept. It can and does happen. It could also be just some incredible incompetence; again, not a new concept in LE sometimes.

Why do so many want to think GZ is a liar? His story has not changed! What the media has put out has changed. Please don't listen to the likes of < mod snip >. They have an agenda and that is to incite racial divide.

I don't want to think anybody's a liar, but when things don't add up, I have to entertain that possibility. It's hard to say specifically at this point how his story has changed, since we haven't heard from him. However, listening to him on those 911 tapes... I think this is a guy prone to exaggeration.

Over the weekend I read that NBC edited the 911 recording to make GZ look even worse. Today I read that ABC enhanced the video showing GZ does have bruises and still people think it is untrue.

I haven't seen any proof that NBC edited the recording for that purpose.

I think one reason there is doubt about the ABC pics is because of the earlier video of him at the PD, the placement of the injuries in these new pics, and the degree of their severity.

Is it really beyond the realm of possibility that TM did act suspicious to GZ? It is not possible that TM did jump GZ? If GZ had stayed in his car nothing would have happened. Leaving his car was a mistake and no matter what he suspected to be going on, he should have waited and let LE handle whatever. He did not do that but it doesn't mean he hunted down anyone 'like a dog'.

It's very possible that to Zimmerman, Trayvon was acting suspiciously. Zimmerman seems to have had suspicions about a whole lot of people, based on his own calls to the PD. And it's possible that Trayvon 'jumped' (not a term I'd use, because evidence doesn't seem to support 'jumping' on him) Zimmerman. We need to know more about those specifics, and are not likely to because Trayvon is dead.

Let's wait for the Grand Jury decision before accusing LE of shady behavior.

Since this is a breaking/current story, I think people are likely to express their views and opinions about one element of it--LE's behavior. I wouldn't expect that dialogue to be stifled just because a Grand Jury hasn't met yet.

 

[mercuriod]

Where did you see or read about his ear?

Look at the photo, that poor man's left ear has been ripped to pieces, looks like a dog got ahold of it and shredded it.

 

[gxm]

Makes perfect sense to me. I just wanted to say I am glad you are okay and here posting with us.Sounds like it was a horrible attack you endured.

Thank you for your kind words. It happened a long time ago, and though I don't dwell on it, it's something you never forget.

 

[miimaa]

I'll see if I can find it in the mean time do you have a link????

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2012/03/trayvon-martin-girlfriend-hospitalized-following-death

According to this article she was unaware she was the last to talk to TM until she was contacted after the wake. jmo

You betcha.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/crime/trayvon-martins-girlfriend-details-final-moments-before-the-2249251.html

The girl said Trayvon must have been pushed because his headset fell off and the phone call ended.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I didn't even notice that until you mentioned it!

And still not a drop of blood anywhere on George or his clothing! And wasn't it so nice of those paramedic's to press his shirt so nicely for him so that he didn't have to walk into the police station disheveled from his life or death fight?

Well his shirt is a little wrinkled towards the top and he has the police officer pull that down for him before they go in the station. < mod snip> :rocker:

 

[LambChop]

bbm

Like possibly the butt of his gun?

imo

I don't know how that was happening unless TM was trying to get the gun away from GZ and the gun was above GZ's head. I think it looks as if he definitely hit something on the way down to the ground. jmo

 

[mikeysmommom]

No matter the semantics of the dispatcher, the neighborhood watch rules are absolutely NO GUNS.

The watch coordinator stated that the rules are even clearly posted in the clubhouse.

Was Zimmerman patrolling, watching, stalking?

He sure wasn't in his truck on the way to Target.

imo

If you are legally allowed to carry your gun , I would think that over rides the neighborhood watch program JMO.He also is a citizen and in FL has the right to carry.He said he was going to the store ,who can say he was not.JMO

 

[gxm]

No matter the semantics of the dispatcher, the neighborhood watch rules are absolutely NO GUNS.

The watch coordinator stated that the rules are even clearly posted in the clubhouse.

Was Zimmerman patrolling, watching, stalking?

He sure wasn't in his truck on the way to Target.

imo

ITA that GZ should not have been carrying a gun. Unfortunately, he had a conceal and carry permit and was not doing anything illegal.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Can't access photobucket right now so take a very close look at Papa's photo, not only were they able to stop the bleeding, they apparently closely shaved a perfect circle in George's hair. And either the paramedics and cops should all be fired for not declaring George incompetent to be able to make the determination if he should go to the hospital or someone has over exposed the film to make it appear that he has extremely deep scars. If that truly was George's injuries there is no way on earth the would not have been admitted into a hospital and more than likely required life saving brain surgery!

Someone OVER enhanced and played with that video!

So now there is a conspiracy to make GZ look like he was more injured than he really was?

 

[Concerned Papa]

Oh my God! Martin ripped off Zimmerman's left ear too! LOL LOL

Trouble maker, LOL.

Where'd that spotlight come from anyway?

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Kind of funny too how that first officer thought it was so important to put the condition of Zimmerman's back in his police report (wet and grass) and did not think it was important to note the condition of Martins back which was right there in his face not moving around.

 

[TonyGatto]

So now there is a conspiracy to make GZ look like he was more injured than he really was?

What do you think of the police report referring to GZ as white?

 

[joypath]

respectfully snipped by me....but of course that would not fit everyone's version of what they want to believe happened. I think it is reasonable that to GZ TM looked suspicious - a tall figure out in the rain possibly lurking between buildings, covering their head/face and not someone he recognized normally in the neighborhood??


does a medical examiner "clean" up the body at all?

BBM Simple answer, yep!
The body undergoes an EXTERNAL examination while clothed and observations are made regarding observable injuries AND trace evidence, which is carefully collected. BTW: NOTES/comments ARE taken & documented as either an on-going narrative and/or annotated on forms (some forensic pathologists do BOTH routinely, NOT just in "high profile cases")
Clothing is removed & packaged for examination OR packaged for the funeral director/family. Some jurisdictions will allow a diener to redress, case volume may dictate that situation.
The EXTERNAL examination continues on the body AFTER all trace evidence/material/"weird stuff" is removed, the body is rinsed down and observed EXTERNALLY again, in detail and a DESCRIPTIVE narrative is continued and/or "charted" regarding physical conditions (ie. scars, hematomas, lacs, distortions, etc.)

IMO,JME

 

[Beyond Belief]

i don't what to loose the great possibility that GZ was under the impression he was encountering a who might be armed. Had it been that situation GZ could have easily been the one pronounced dead because of a knife wound. Lots of unknowns. Would he have been called a racist then?
This is all just horrible and I pray we never have to see something like this in the news ever again.

 

[CathyinTexas]

You do realize that the initial police report describes GZ as white, not even white/hispanic. Is there some reason Sanord PD NEEDED him to be white?

Maybe because of his name and who his Dad is? He is part white.

 

[LambChop]

If you are legally allowed to carry your gun , I would think that over rides the neighborhood watch program JMO.He also is a citizen and in FL has the right to carry.He said he was going to the store ,who can say he was not.JMO

NWP has no right to tell him what to do, it's set up to try and persuade would be robbers that the people in the community may be watching their every move. LE asks that you not follow, it's just a watch only program. They clearly say "no guns" because they know some people will follow and will take their gun with them. They do not want you to do that. It is perfectly clear in their rules and guidelines for calling a report in.

It is not about carrying a gun.....it was about him following someone when he knows he should not and then using the gun on someone regardless of who did what to whom. He was not suppose to follow. He had already called LE, they told him they were on the way. His right to own and carry a weapon is not the issue. The issue is by following he created an incident. Two kids fighting and when you break them up one says Johnny started it. It's that simple. Only GZ is NOT a kid and he knew better. jmo

 

[TonyGatto]

Maybe because of his name and who his Dad is? He is part white.

I asked the question in reply to Horace Finklestein's post that the media NEEDED to refer to GZ as white as part of their narrative. I believe what you're saying makes sense.

 

[cityslick]

So now there is a conspiracy to make GZ look like he was more injured than he really was?

I don't understand it either, it's been pretty much agreed that there was a scuffle, people are going to get hurt in a fight.

I think some folks have this notion that TM was this defenseless kid where GZ just had his way with him, gun and all. I don't and never thought this was the case.

 

[suzihawk]

And his father is........? I don't think the DA came out because GZ called him. jmo

This is one of the burning questions in my mind. Why did he leave the comfort of his home on a rainy Sunday night and drive 50+ miles in order to overrule the detective's recommendation? There is something hinky stinky about that. IMO