Who was George Brody?- Part 2.

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There is a record ( on Ancestry)for the naturalisation of a George Brody born in 1901 and applied for citizenship at Boston, Mass on the 14th September 1923 apart from his signature no other important information is included
 
Hi all!
Cubby I for to find the ED, well, I no used http://1940census.archives.gov/
but I used http://stevemorse.org/census/unified.html that is more easy for me...
by that going on ancestry.com, I found it in 1940 census>California>Alameda>Oakland>ED 61-108 ... the address is right ...

Dear Annasmom that he was a russian, it is a surprise for me also, but no a big surprise.. and ditto abt elementary education... because the him philosophy, the numerology and all that he claimed of to be ... well I always thinked that he was a lying person... if he immigrated when a child, he lost the russian accent ... by 1940 we know that from 1 apr 1935 he was in Oakland; but before of this date?

Personally.. I always thinked that he was born in foreign country... MK parents coming from Hungary; Seka coming from ex Jugoslavia...
GB had also East Europe heritage...
the 1940 census give us some interesting input, but it is very possible that the surname was shortened in USA and/or maybe he used George first name in USA...

Regards,
raf
 
Cubby said:
Here is the link for the free 1940 census search. I am still not finding our GB on here.... I ended up with something that had an entirely different family on line 37.

raf, can you see if you can help us navigate this site? I see a lot of 12's but not a 12th street. A 12th av, 12th place..... If you can and it is not too much time it would be appreciated.

http://1940census.archives.gov/
Click to expand...

cubby its on page 5 on the ancestory website on the census
 
My files are so enormous that I wasn't sure I could find this, but I have something labeled "Brody signature" (attached) with a middle initial of "A". This handwriting is not like the other examples I have, which have capital letters interspersed with lower case letters. However, at least once the handwritten (wrinkled, obviously discarded after being typed but perhaps retrieved by GW) letters do slant into cursive and resemble this signature.

Maybe the addition of the "A" would help shed light on Brody's origins, if indeed this is his signature (I can't remember where this came from.) Also remember that Margaret called him "Bobby".

I still really do not believe GB was foreign born. As a musician, I have a very good ear for accents and languages. Remember that I actually heard Brody drone on hour after hour. It is impossible that he would never reveal any trace of an accent. The best speakers of American English as a second language (and I admit that Russian-born people sometimes speak almost perfect English), even British speakers, will at some point lapse...especially when counting, which we all do in our mother tongue. I believe he lied to the census taker.
 

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Annasmom said:
My files are so enormous that I wasn't sure I could find this, but I have something labeled "Brody signature" (attached) with a middle initial of "A". This handwriting is not like the other examples I have, which have capital letters interspersed with lower case letters. However, at least once the handwritten (wrinkled, obviously discarded after being typed but perhaps retrieved by GW) letters do slant into cursive and resemble this signature.

Maybe the addition of the "A" would help shed light on Brody's origins, if indeed this is his signature (I can't remember where this came from.) Also remember that Margaret called him "Bobby".

I still really do not believe GB was foreign born. As a musician, I have a very good ear for accents and languages. Remember that I actually heard Brody drone on hour after hour. It is impossible that he would never reveal any trace of an accent. The best speakers of American English as a second language (and I admit that Russian-born people sometimes speak almost perfect English), even British speakers, will at some point lapse...especially when counting, which we all do in our mother tongue. I believe he lied to the census taker.
Click to expand...

Hi Annasmom the signature.. it is on a petition for naturalization...
I am pretty sure abt that....
regards,
raf
 
annasmom he could be of russian decent but was not born in russia. maybe his parents came to the usa for a better life and had him in the states.? or he was born in russia and came as a baby and lost any trace of acent.
 
Hi Annasmom,

If GB was born in Russia and went to the US as a baby or even a young child he would more than likely not have an accent. I know people that were born in other countries and came to Australia as young children and they sound more "Ozzie" than me, even some Asian people and Asian accents are usually very difficult to loose.

In my experience, if a child goes to school in a country other than where they were born they pick up the local accent very quickly to fit in better. In a family I know, the mother was born in Lebanon and moved to the US as an adult, she has a Lebanese / American accent, the father was born in Australia and lived in the US for 12 years and now has an American/Australian accent. When their US born daughter was 4 they moved back to Australia and at the time she had an American accent but 4 years later you would think she was born here, no American accent at all.

With what we know about GB at this stage, I think the lack of an accent should not stop us thinking he was born in another country.
 
I'm working on a doctorate in foreign language and English as a second language education. There is tons of research out there about accents. If a person learns a second language before puberty (and uses that language as much as the first language), then they will most likely speak the second language without an accent from the first language (and vice-versa). If they learned the language post-puberty, it is still possible to lose an accent, but it depends on the similarities between L1 and L2 (for example, Danish and Norwegian are very similar languages; English and Japanese are not), and it also depends on the hearing ability of the person. If they are able to hear each of the sounds of the L2, which often takes years to accomplish, then they will be able to produce those sounds without a discernible accent from the first language. It is possible that he could have spoken English without a Russian accent, but if he learned it later in life, it most likely took years for him to accomplish this.
 
raf said:
Hi Annasmom the signature.. it is on a petition for naturalization...
I am pretty sure abt that....
regards,
raf
Click to expand...

I wish I could remember where that signature came from and wish we could see the date. I wonder if the middle initial would help us locate him. Your research is really amazing, Raf. Thank you.
 
Annasmom said:
My files are so enormous that I wasn't sure I could find this, but I have something labeled "Brody signature" (attached) with a middle initial of "A". This handwriting is not like the other examples I have, which have capital letters interspersed with lower case letters. However, at least once the handwritten (wrinkled, obviously discarded after being typed but perhaps retrieved by GW) letters do slant into cursive and resemble this signature.

Maybe the addition of the "A" would help shed light on Brody's origins, if indeed this is his signature (I can't remember where this came from.) Also remember that Margaret called him "Bobby".

I still really do not believe GB was foreign born. As a musician, I have a very good ear for accents and languages. Remember that I actually heard Brody drone on hour after hour. It is impossible that he would never reveal any trace of an accent. The best speakers of American English as a second language (and I admit that Russian-born people sometimes speak almost perfect English), even British speakers, will at some point lapse...especially when counting, which we all do in our mother tongue. I believe he lied to the census taker.
Click to expand...


Annasmom said:
I wish I could remember where that signature came from and wish we could see the date. I wonder if the middle initial would help us locate him. Your research is really amazing, Raf. Thank you.
Click to expand...




The George A Brody information and signature came from this post:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Who was George Brody?- Part 2.



GAB is not our GB. GAB was born in NY in 1879 according to information raf researched and found. Very detailed information at the above linked post, including the document from where the George A Brody signature came.
 
Annasmom said:
I wish I could remember where that signature came from and wish we could see the date. I wonder if the middle initial would help us locate him. Your research is really amazing, Raf. Thank you.
Click to expand...
Dear Annasmom,
I am pretty sure also that the GB in 1940 census of Oakland is our GB; and the birthplace is right also ( Russia), because he declared it in a no suspicion time...
because he in 1940 was naturalized and needing for that almost of to be in USA from 3-5 years and it had good behavior for to obtain the naturalization

because he had no russian accent, so immigrated when he was a infant or just a child

because I no found the him naturalization ( almost no in the available naturalization database)

because he appearing in Oakland voters registration from 1936 (and he declared in 1940 that he in 1 apr 1935 was already in Oakland) I believe that he was naturalized in young age, by father application, and maybe no in California...

in 1940 census all matching with the idea that I always had of our GB..

I wish search in naturalization records, maybe I will find it as child on a Brody petition of naturalization ( the GB father) ... and to search also in the arrival ports (especially Boston and Philadelphia arrivals)...

Regards,
raf
 
I know this unlikely but I'm going to throw it out there anyway. Maybe GB was adopted from Russia and naturalized during the adoption process. That would explain why there is no birth record for him and back then the adoption records would have been sealed. It could also explain why he didn't have anything to do with his family as he could have found out when he got older and turned his back on them.

Just a thought.
 
Cubby said:
I don't have ancestry, so can't check the dates. Can someone with an ancestry membership look at this to make sure this is not our GB?

TIA

http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gl=40&rank=0&gsln=Kravitz&gss=angs-d&_82004280=Russia


ETA: Scroll down the the George Brody at the above link.
Click to expand...

Hi Cubby,

You need to have a fold 3 account to look at the record. I used to have one but I don't any more. I have looked at this one and a couple of others over the past few of days and I don't think it is our GB as he would have been 15 when he immigrated and that would have made it difficult to loose his accent completely. Not impossible but very difficult.
 
OzzieMum said:
I know this unlikely but I'm going to throw it out there anyway. Maybe GB was adopted from Russia and naturalized during the adoption process. That would explain why there is no birth record for him and back then the adoption records would have been sealed. It could also explain why he didn't have anything to do with his family as he could have found out when he got older and turned his back on them.

Just a thought.
Click to expand...

Were there many Russian children adopted in the US the 20's and 30's? Maybe, but I have not heard of that many. I am not sure what the situation for international adoptions was then.
 
I think GB came to the US from Russia with his parents but anglicized his first and last names once he became an adult. Or maybe his parents anglicized their names.

I have few idea's on how we would research this. Maybe see if we can back track by known addresses? Can we try and find the address he was known to be at in the earliest record to the previous Census and see who lived at that address in 1930?

I'll keep trying to think of idea's, but I think we're going to have to back track by way other than name, because I imagine the birth records and possibly naturalization records are under his birth name, versus what I believe is an anglicized name.
 
raf said:
Hi all; we know that OUR George Brody was in Oakland from 1936-1944 and living:
1936 Oakland George Brody, 483 9th - Salesman, Dem
1938 Oakland George Brody, 534 12th - Jr. research assit. Dem
1940 Oakland George Brody, 534 12th – Jr. research assit. Dem.
1942 (Aug.) Oakland George Brody, 1724 San Pablo – Jr. research assit. Dem.
1942 (Nov) Oakland George Brody, 2329 San Pablo – Jr. research assit. – Dem
1944 Oakland George Brody, 2329 San Pablo – Jr. research assit, - Dem

and by newspaper article of 1941 (Oakland Tribune):



"Berkeley, 1941 Oct 2-Suspect freed of picket’s charge

It required a jury but 15 minutes to find Joseoh G Sgroe, 29, innocent of battery charges in connection with alleged assault on a ticket patroling in front on a barber shop at 1906 University Avenue last august 5.
The case was heard in the court of Police judge Oliver Young jr.
According in prosecution witness testimony, as Sgroe who lives at 1912 Sacramento st, was entering the barber shop he saw Picket George Brody, 3, the plaintiff, jot down his license number.
Sgroe retraced his steps, the testimony said, and demanded the memo from Brody. When Brody turned his back. Sgroe slapped him in the face with such force that he spun him around, the testimony related.
At this juncture, Brody, who lives at 1724 San Pablo Avenue, called for help. Patrolman B.W. Gocke responded."

and I believe that this George Brody is our guy. The wife was Margaret, nurse, born in NJ yes but the parents coming from Hungary

The GB born in Ohio and married at another Margaret born in NJ( parents born in NJ) and living in San Francisco in 1940 census as a well in 1930 census..
I believe that they are other peoples...

It are several posts of WB members abt that ..
Just my opinion...
regards,
raf
Click to expand...



Can someone with an ancestry membership see if we can find who was residing at 483 9th, Oakland in the 1930 Census? If this is an apartment with several residents, can we get a list of the residents who resided at this address in 1930?


Trying to find a way to track this GB back by a means other than name.
 
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