FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #20

[Skully]

Not sure if Michelle would be dropping off toys clothes and snacks, I would think that DSJr has those things already for them at his home. But if they have special toys that they sleep with perhaps there could be some belongings involved. But to unstrap two 3 year olds, remove them and walk up to the door shouldn't take too long I would think. I've seen a lot of people dropping off children at daycare that takes under 5 minutes.

What I do wonder about is the car seats. And whether they had to be removed and switched over or if he also had an extra set for himself in his vehicle. Of course that would likely be done after the children are safely inside I would think. And that's when they might have been alone to have a "conversation".

MOO

We don't know if the car seats were in the hummer when found, do we? I think we discussed it, but something tells me we thought Dale had his own set of seats because he took the kids to his mom and dads often.

Anyone remember? This factors in for time, as he would have to take the seats out of the hummer and put them into his truck if he drove back to mom and dads with the kids. All this stuff eats up time.

 

[Skully]

I thought that in one of the interviews that Michelle's sister gave she mentioned that Michelle would've likely passed the camera and pulled around the corner of DS II's condo. If she did that, then she would've pulled out from the curb and continued in that same direction and driven around the loop. That would've taken her back out to the entrance/exit, but she wouldn't have passed the camera again.
I wrote this in my notes, but didn't capture the actual link for the interview. Does anyone else remember seeing it? I will try to find it, but it won't be until tomorrow.

BBM
Thank you, so LE may only have a shot of her coming in but nothing of her leaving? And that would mean, if Dale took off the time he said, he may have done the same thing, and there is no way to say if either of them left at the time he states. I hope for the sake of the truth, we have both hummer and truck on video leaving. If they don't have that, that could be why no one is arrested at this point in time. Dale can't drive two vehicles and that is one of my hang ups here. I have to find a way that someone is not on Video coming in to help, like his dad or a friend of his.

First I want to figure out a way to kill someone and do it quickly and leave nothing behind.

 

[Analyze This]

IMO if there were news Michelle had been found and a murder weapon discovered with Dale's fingerprints some people would STILL be defending him. How does Dale have so many fooled? Just wondering...

I know that it can be frustrating to think that people are defending DS II, but in my opinion the questions that are being asked on this thread are the same questions that a jury will have when a trial is held. The harsh reality is that DS II's background and a great deal of his other "behaviors" will likely be ruled prejudicial and/or not admissible in court. If you take those things away, then what are you left with? You're left with a case that needs to be presented solely on the evidence at hand, circumstantial or otherwise.

If our debate of the "evidence" in any way helps to strengthen the case that the prosecution will present, then I can find no objection to people "defending" DS II. If the questions that we ask spark an idea for a search area, or heck even a different suspect and it leads to finding Michelle Parker, then our time was well spent.

Websites like this one and Facebook can be a valuable tool to law enforcement and prosecutors. What better way to gauge the response that a jury might have to a case that is presented to them? But, I think that is a whole other debate for a different time and place.

As always, I hope that today is the day that Michelle is found.

 

[Analyze This]

BBM
Thank you, so LE may only have a shot of her coming in but nothing of her leaving? And that would mean, if Dale took off the time he said, he may have done the same thing, and there is no way to say if either of them left at the time he states. I hope for the sake of the truth, we have both hummer and truck on video leaving. If they don't have that, that could be why no one is arrested at this point in time. Dale can't drive two vehicles and that is one of my hang ups here. I have to find a way that someone is not on Video coming in to help, like his dad or a friend of his.

First I want to figure out a way to kill someone and do it quickly and leave nothing behind.

BBM. My opinion on the above is that the cause of death would likely be blunt force trauma. I don't think that this was premeditated in any way. Given DS II's history, head trauma is the most likely method in my opinion.

Michelle was a bartender. She likely had good upper body strength. Strangulation, in my opinion, would've left evidence of a struggle behind in the form of marks on DS II. Even if he came at her from behind, she would've scratched at him to get free. He was seen wearing short sleeves in the video when police searched his condo. Any marks would've been visible. I'm ruling out gun shot and stabbing, as well. Both would've left some forensics evidence behind, even if it was evidence of a clean up.

Head trauma can be very quick and relatively forensics free. If DS II killed Michelle, my theory is that they argued. He lost his temper and lashed out. He either hit her or shoved her. If he hit her, depending on the force and angle of the blow, he could've snapped her neck or caused skull trauma that would've resulted in immediate death. I am still digging around for real life scenarios to refine that theory.

If he shoved her, she may have fallen and hit her head against something, including the floor. Or he may have kicked her after she had fallen. Either way, whatever happened had to be very quick and didn't give Michelle a chance to fight back. By fight back, I mean not only struggle, but also scream or otherwise draw attention to what was happening.

 

[Skully]

BBM. My opinion on the above is that the cause of death would likely be blunt force trauma. I don't think that this was premeditated in any way. Given DS II's history, head trauma is the most likely method in my opinion.

Michelle was a bartender. She likely had good upper body strength. Strangulation, in my opinion, would've left evidence of a struggle behind in the form of marks on DS II. Even if he came at her from behind, she would've scratched at him to get free. He was seen wearing short sleeves in the video when police searched his condo. Any marks would've been visible. I'm ruling out gun shot and stabbing, as well. Both would've left some forensics evidence behind, even if it was evidence of a clean up.

Head trauma can be very quick and relatively forensics free. If DS II killed Michelle, my theory is that they argued. He lost his temper and lashed out. He either hit her or shoved her. If he hit her, depending on the force and angle of the blow, he could've snapped her neck or caused skull trauma that would've resulted in immediate death. I am still digging around for real life scenarios to refine that theory.

If he shoved her, she may have fallen and hit her head against something, including the floor. Or he may have kicked her after she had fallen. Either way, whatever happened had to be very quick and didn't give Michelle a chance to fight back. By fight back, I mean not only struggle, but also scream or otherwise draw attention to what was happening.

If you get hit in the head from a blow from a fist, would that cause any bleeding on the out side? I know if you fall and hit your head on something sharp you draw blood and scalp wounds bleed a lot and are hard to get stopped, like those nose bleeds. I have to have no blood in this scenario because forensics can see it with the blue light and then they would get her DNA at the condo.

I agree that he wouldn't have strangled her, it takes lots of strength to do that, more then people realize and it takes a while for them to kill you like that. Not a good way to go. Also I agree that here would be nail scratches on his arms. She would not have just stood there and let him choke her to death. The flight or flight instinct kicks in.

 

[Analyze This]

If you get hit in the head from a blow from a fist, would that cause any bleeding on the out side? I know if you fall and hit your head on something sharp you draw blood and scalp wounds bleed a lot and are hard to get stopped, like those nose bleeds. I have to have no blood in this scenario because forensics can see it with the blue light and then they would get her DNA at the condo.

I agree that he wouldn't have strangled her, it takes lots of strength to do that, more then people realize and it takes a while for them to kill you like that. Not a good way to go. Also I agree that here would be nail scratches on his arms. She would not have just stood there and let him choke her to death. The flight or flight instinct kicks in.

BBM. I think that a punch or kick to the head could easily be fatal without leaving any blood evidence behind. I saw a running child trip and smash his head into a concrete wall. He fractured his skull in three places and was completely unconscious for quite a while. There was not one drop of blood. The wall was flat and because of the lack of sharp angles, the skin didn't split.

I'm looking for articles or information on head trauma, but most of what I have found is related to sports, car accidents, bike accidents and injuries suffered by members of the military.

 

[Jazzmaster]

I know that it can be frustrating to think that people are defending DS II, but in my opinion the questions that are being asked on this thread are the same questions that a jury will have when a trial is held. The harsh reality is that DS II's background and a great deal of his other "behaviors" will likely be ruled prejudicial and/or not admissible in court. If you take those things away, then what are you left with? You're left with a case that needs to be presented solely on the evidence at hand, circumstantial or otherwise.

If our debate of the "evidence" in any way helps to strengthen the case that the prosecution will present, then I can find no objection to people "defending" DS II. If the questions that we ask spark an idea for a search area, or heck even a different suspect and it leads to finding Michelle Parker, then our time was well spent.

Websites like this one and Facebook can be a valuable tool to law enforcement and prosecutors. What better way to gauge the response that a jury might have to a case that is presented to them? But, I think that is a whole other debate for a different time and place.

As always, I hope that today is the day that Michelle is found.

Great points! I hadn't thought of it THAT way. I appreciate you sharing. Look...my only HOPE and PRAYER is that Michelle is found and SOON. That is why I come here every day. Her children need answers. THOSE responsible need to be brought to justice...at the end of the day if this site and our discussions can help provide LE with ideas and input I am grateful for that. It's a small sacrifice to help bring Michelle home! I am thankful there is such a GREAT community here willing to fight for JUSTICE!

 

[andalso]

Has it ever been 100% determined that Michelle in fact drove the hummer into the complex to drop off the kids? I was not convinced that was a fact. Then when they released the video of MP getting food at the drive through earlier in the day, I thought that perhaps they were trying to give us a clue that was the last time she was seen alive. Has it been confirmed that she did in fact pick up the kids at the sitter and not DSJr.?
Sorry if these questions have been answered, just trying to catch up with this case again.

 

[Skully]

BBM. I think that a punch or kick to the head could easily be fatal without leaving any blood evidence behind. I saw a running child trip and smash his head into a concrete wall. He fractured his skull in three places and was completely unconscious for quite a while. There was not one drop of blood. The wall was flat and because of the lack of sharp angles, the skin didn't split.

I'm looking for articles or information on head trauma, but most of what I have found is related to sports, car accidents, bike accidents and injuries suffered by members of the military.

I will see if I can find anything also today. It is important to note that in the Susan Powell case, there was a large wet spot on the rug and Josh had fans in the room aimed at it in an attempt to dry it. He said he spilled something and had cleaned it up. So we don't' have anything like that in this case as far as I know. That is why I am looking for a no blood, no body fluids theory.

 

[Analyze This]

I will see if I can find anything also today. It is important to note that in the Susan Powell case, there was a large wet spot on the rug and Josh had fans in the room aimed at it in an attempt to dry it. He said he spilled something and had cleaned it up. So we don't' have anything like that in this case as far as I know. That is why I am looking for a no blood, no body fluids theory.

I found this article, which is pretty informative. WARNING: Slightly graphic, includes photos. I wasn't entirely prepared for that.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1680107-overview

 

[Skully]

I found this article, which is pretty informative. WARNING: Slightly graphic, includes photos. I wasn't entirely prepared for that.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1680107-overview

I have seen this page before, UGH! BIG TIME UGH! So I am not a medical person, but it sounds like the head would have more damage because of shape if hit with let's say a lamp,than another part of the body. But anything sharp has to cut the skin. But you said you saw a kid hit a wall, and have fractures. If Michelle was thrown into a wall, that hard, there would be damage to the wall. They are not solid anymore, they are plaster board or dry wall and plaster over them.

 

[Skully]

I brought up the idea that he could have had Visqueen at his home. Visqueen is a large roll of plastic that is used by contractors to cover large areas in a home or work place to keep the area clean as they work. He was a cabinet maker, so this is a good possibility. If we go with a "planned" killing, then he could have used a plastic bag or a large piece of plastic to put over her head to suffocate her. But this would most likely result in scratching the hands and arms to get free. You wouldn't have blood or mess but it takes time to suffocate a person. If we are at 37 minutes going into this, you would have to give this at least 15 minutes to have the kids settled, chit chat or get into this fight, grab the plastic and then time for her to expire. Maybe 10 minutes or so? But you have to explain no signs on him of her fighting for her life.

 

[Skully]

IMO Michelle never left Dale's condo of her own freewill after dropping of the twinners. So WHOEVER (probably have initials DS with a Jr or Sr at end) took her vehicle they COULD have gone out another way... SimpleLikeThat has been in Dale's complex and indicated you can wait for a vehicle to go through the gate and follow that person in. I tried this the other day, but the problem was no cars came whileI was waiting so I sat there quite a while (20 mins or so). I had errands to run and not much time to wait around, but if determined I suppose you could get in there...JMO

Do you know how people access the gate? Do they give them a pass to put on the car window? Is it a key pad and you enter a pin number, or is there a guard that has a list of people that get let in? This would be important if we discuss Dale enlisting help. The video camera along with any kind of eyewitness's like a guard, or a record of pins going in would support knowing who came in and at what time. Also if it is a pin number, you could give it to someone, if it is by pass, you could lend it out and if it is a guard, then you would be on a list or something like that to be let in.

Do you remember how they accessed the gate?

 

[Skully]

Does anyone here know if the search at Dale's condo was with dogs and what kind of dogs were used? Was it also on Saturday the day after she went missing? I am trying to confirm some things with Oriah about the dogs. She/he is a verified SAR person.

Thanks

 

[ginert]

More and more as time goes by, I really hope that LE didn’t jump the gun by naming DS as a suspect. At first, I was over 90% sure he did it but now I have some doubt. Fate lined up perfectly for him to commit the perfect crime if he is her killer.

He got lucky she pulled around the front of the house away from the neighbor’s camera, he got lucky there was no blood when he killed her, he got lucky he didn’t transfer any forensic evidence from himself to the car when he got rid of it, he got lucky that no one saw his accomplice pull up (if there was one), he got lucky the camera at the exit of the subdivision didn’t show him or his accomplice in the hummer, he got lucky that everything went smoothly and he got it done in 40 minutes, he got lucky no one saw him throw out her phone, he got lucky no one saw him drop off the hummer, he got lucky no one saw him being picked up by accomplice or biking home, he got lucky no one saw him acting suspicious as he got rid of the body.

If any of the above happened, I am pretty sure a witness would have come forward by now. I think LE may have a bit of evidence not known to the public but in this day and age, I believe it would have come out by now and DS would have been arrested. It is nice to believe LE has some super secret evidence all ready to use, but a lot of times I believe, they truly are at a loss. It is possible, none of the evidence they thought would end up being tied to DS came to fruition.

He is not a guy I would choose to hang out with or date, he has tons of red flags in his background, but I am not sure Michelle’s killer is one of them. I am not defending him, but I do believe naming him a suspect stopped the investigation from branching out in other directions. They were so focused on finding evidence against DS. If he is telling the truth and she drove off after dropping off the kids, the odds of finding out what truly happened at this point is slim IMO. I truly hope there is some justice for Michelle and her family gets closure. My thoughts and prayers are with them always.

 

[Skully]

http://www.examiner.com/article/timeline-surrounding-michelle-parker-s-disappearance

I found this time line and it may help us keep on track.

 

[Skully]

Michelle lived there with Dale, and it was stated she could have known some people there at the condo.

There is one thing we haven't thought of for the difference in the time Dale gives and the video of her at 3:18. Did she stop to chat with an old neighbor? Could that neighbor have flagged her down and known she was dropping off the twins with Dale? Or if she did stop to chat, would they think to tell LE of that short delay, or did they just not say anything because they were never asked? or did LE know about that and keep it quiet? Just a thought. Still working on how she was killed and no evidence.

 

[Jazzmaster]

I am working on a few things right now...Anyone know for SURE the first time LE went to Dales? I know he IMO made it seem like they came knocking on the 17th via his FB drama, but do we know the TRUTH about when they first came?

 

[nursebeeme]

This lands at random:

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and ALL opinions are welcome here.. If you attack a POST that is fine if you do so with respect. If you attack a poster or try to "out" a poster that is not fine. Thanks so much.

 

[telemag]

More and more as time goes by, I really hope that LE didn’t jump the gun by naming DS as a suspect. At first, I was over 90% sure he did it but now I have some doubt. Fate lined up perfectly for him to commit the perfect crime if he is her killer.

He got lucky she pulled around the front of the house away from the neighbor’s camera, he got lucky there was no blood when he killed her, he got lucky he didn’t transfer any forensic evidence from himself to the car when he got rid of it, he got lucky that no one saw his accomplice pull up (if there was one), he got lucky the camera at the exit of the subdivision didn’t show him or his accomplice in the hummer, he got lucky that everything went smoothly and he got it done in 40 minutes, he got lucky no one saw him throw out her phone, he got lucky no one saw him drop off the hummer, he got lucky no one saw him being picked up by accomplice or biking home, he got lucky no one saw him acting suspicious as he got rid of the body.

If any of the above happened, I am pretty sure a witness would have come forward by now. I think LE may have a bit of evidence not known to the public but in this day and age, I believe it would have come out by now and DS would have been arrested. It is nice to believe LE has some super secret evidence all ready to use, but a lot of times I believe, they truly are at a loss. It is possible, none of the evidence they thought would end up being tied to DS came to fruition.

He is not a guy I would choose to hang out with or date, he has tons of red flags in his background, but I am not sure Michelle’s killer is one of them. I am not defending him, but I do believe naming him a suspect stopped the investigation from branching out in other directions. They were so focused on finding evidence against DS. If he is telling the truth and she drove off after dropping off the kids, the odds of finding out what truly happened at this point is slim IMO. I truly hope there is some justice for Michelle and her family gets closure. My thoughts and prayers are with them always.

Excellent post! I often wonder what we would be talking about if Dale had not been named so quickly by LE. I do wonder how much they have at this point, but personally I don't think it much or else why would they put together a new panel to look for clues.