Identified! TN - Knox Co, 'Shotgun Jane Doe' WhtFem 607UFTN, 21-30, Jun'87 - Tena Marie Gattrell

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Morning all from Australia!

I just wanted to let everyone know that SJD's clothing photos are up on NAMUS and the exclusion list has now increased to 73.

I can confirm that she didn't have her ears pierced and she was also not wearing or appear to have a tan mark where a wedding band would be.

Word from the cold case investigator in response to whether or not SJD's facial reconstruction actually does look like her (as many do not), was the following:

I think that it look just like her. Her chin is very defined, don’t waste your time looking at people who look older. She was very thin built with very defined features. Also, her skin was very smooth and young looking. I really do not feel that she was very much into her 20’s. I know that the ME listed between 20-30 for age but I wouldn’t at all be surprised if she was 18-20 yrs old. But that is merely a guess. She didn’t appear to have been a part of the lifestyle long enough for it to age her.

The one thing that I did notice when looking at her clothing pictures is that her hair is very dark brown also.

Hoping this Doe gets her name soon.
Pearly
 
pearly said:
Morning all from Australia!

I just wanted to let everyone know that SJD's clothing photos are up on NAMUS and the exclusion list has now increased to 73.

I can confirm that she didn't have her ears pierced and she was also not wearing or appear to have a tan mark where a wedding band would be.

Word from the cold case investigator in response to whether or not SJD's facial reconstruction actually does look like her (as many do not), was the following:

I think that it look just like her. Her chin is very defined, don’t waste your time looking at people who look older. She was very thin built with very defined features. Also, her skin was very smooth and young looking. I really do not feel that she was very much into her 20’s. I know that the ME listed between 20-30 for age but I wouldn’t at all be surprised if she was 18-20 yrs old. But that is merely a guess. She didn’t appear to have been a part of the lifestyle long enough for it to age her.

The one thing that I did notice when looking at her clothing pictures is that her hair is very dark brown also.

Hoping this Doe gets her name soon.
Pearly
Click to expand...

hi Pearly, are you referring to Nellie here?

glad you got some feedback so maybe this UID was closer to 20. however, unless there is an anatomical reason for picking a specific estimated age, I would hate for people to be excluded just because someone is out of the age range.
 
webrocket said:
hi Pearly, are you referring to Nellie here?

glad you got some feedback so maybe this UID was closer to 20. however, unless there is an anatomical reason for picking a specific estimated age, I would hate for people to be excluded just because someone is out of the age range.
Click to expand...

No sorry I was referring to our Jane Doe reconstruction and I do agree re exclusions however it may be an idea to look at missing teens i.e. 15-20 as well.

Nellie is being compared however we won't hear anything until the new year.

P
 
I can't seem to find anyone in the 14-25 yr range with the leg injuries the UID had.

what I don't understand is how someone with the prior injuries of the UID would go unnoticed unless we have a situation of a runaway girl who was whole and had a subsequent accident with surgeries. even then how would a young woman get all that aftercare then resume life on the run?
 
webrocket said:
I can't seem to find anyone in the 14-25 yr range with the leg injuries the UID had.

what I don't understand is how someone with the prior injuries of the UID would go unnoticed unless we have a situation of a runaway girl who was whole and had a subsequent accident with surgeries. even then how would a young woman get all that aftercare then resume life on the run?
Click to expand...

This does worry me as well, but I am thinking if our Jane Doe is in fact one of the many missing women/girls listed, she may have been reported by someone unaware that she had these injuries (especially as most are healed). If she in fact did try and commit suicide as the injuries suggest, she may not have wanted to discuss that with people she met later on in life.....Just a thought
 
Hi All,

I received the above email regarding Anabelle Ludwig. I have passed it on to LE in our UID case so she can add her to the list of rule out's.

Alex
I reviewed 607UFTN and compared with MP#5150 case file, and several aspects were not consistent with both mp and uf such as:
-age
-injuries
-tattoo
-clothing style
- time of death scenario

No fingerprints or dentals available.

MP#5150 relatives DNA is on file with University of Northern Texas Center for Human Identification, Fort Worth Texas 1-817-735-0606.
 
pearly said:
Hi All,

I received the above email regarding Anabelle Ludwig. I have passed it on to LE in our UID case so she can add her to the list of rule out's.

Alex
I reviewed 607UFTN and compared with MP#5150 case file, and several aspects were not consistent with both mp and uf such as:
-age
-injuries
-tattoo
-clothing style
- time of death scenario

No fingerprints or dentals available.

MP#5150 relatives DNA is on file with University of Northern Texas Center for Human Identification, Fort Worth Texas 1-817-735-0606.
Click to expand...

I wasn't sure whether or not she was in CODIS, so this information that her familial DNA is in UNT probably means that she is in CODIS. Since SJD is in CODIS, we can be reasonably sure that this is indeed a rule out.

However, of those five items mentioned, only one (age) is a somewhat valid reason to exclude.

There was a five year difference between her disappearance and SJD's death, so injuries and tattoo could have easily been obtained during that period of time. As for the time period, the circumstances suggest that she left voluntarily to be with a boyfriend in Florida, so it would not be implausible for her to show up halfway between Ohio and Florida five years later. The clothing (i.e., Miami Dolphins jersey) was borrowed from the males whom she had met earlier.

As for the age, I know of other cases where the age was badly misjudged. The UID later determined to be Ramona Folse was estimated to be 19-28 years old. It turned out that she was 44 at the time of her death.

https://identifyus.org/cases/3071
http://z13.invisionfree.com/PorchlightUSA/index.php?showtopic=17450

But as mentioned above, the DNA on file satisfies me that SJD is not Annabelle.
 
reasypeasy said:
I would like to see LE rule Theresa Ann Bier in or out. Something concrete like DNA would be nice.I'm not so sure her date last contact is particularly useful since its seem to be relying on the word of the whacko she was with when she disappeared.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/bier_theresa.html
Click to expand...

Hi Reasypeasy,

Was there a particular reason you wanted Theresa looked at for our UID, I ask not due to dates as from reading her missing details the person she was last with seems to be an unreliable source but rather Theresa had protruding teeth and our Doe doesn't also her nose appears to be slightly narrower than SJD's.

Happy to submit though if you like......
 
pearly said:
Hi Reasypeasy,

Was there a particular reason you wanted Theresa looked at for our UID, I ask not due to dates as from reading her missing details the person she was last with seems to be an unreliable source but rather Theresa had protruding teeth and our Doe doesn't also her nose appears to be slightly narrower than SJD's.

Happy to submit though if you like......
Click to expand...

The initials on the Doe's arm are badly done and photographed blurrily, could they have been intended by the person who tattooed them to read R.W (the whacko who last saw Theresa) not B.H.? If someone is using improvised tools and doesn't know what they are doing it would be quite easy for tattoo lines not to be done deep enough or to be done so close they run together and detail is lost.

Theresa seems to maybe have been an adventurous sort of girl (if the trip to see bigfoot was something she did willingly) and pelvic inflammation as seen in the Doe might not be surprising if she had caught chlamydia from one of her first sexual experiences and it was not detected. The scar could be due to dealing with the consequences of the pelvic inflammation, not due to a pregnancy. The autopsy doesn't seem to draw conclusions about pregnancy.

Theresa had a surgical scar on her leg due to a fracture. The true extent of the injuries associated with getting that scar are not described in her profile, but most minor fractures do get dealt with by just casts, don't they? It was obviously something major.

Her hair looks the right color.

The protruding teeth don't seem so bad in the photo of her. Maybe they looked more so when she smiled, or she just had the most protruding teeth in her family so that influenced the description given?

I think I'd run off with someone too after a while camping with a whacko who believed in bigfoot. Chances are they didn't take the right equipment or enough food. She may have just taken what she could get in the way of a ride so she could get out of there and get fed, and been very unlucky. Maybe the guys she was with were her second ride after leaving R.W.?

And lastly, this is entirely subjective and intuitive on my part and maybe a bit silly, Theresa's face looks like it goes with those legs. I know, I know, not very scientific of me. But every girl I'be known who had a face like that also had that sort of thigh and calf that had more flesh on the outside edge than the inside edge, which is what her leg seems to be like.
 
reasypeasy said:
The initials on the Doe's arm are badly done and photographed blurrily, could they have been intended by the person who tattooed them to read R.W (the whacko who last saw Theresa) not B.H.? If someone is using improvised tools and doesn't know what they are doing it would be quite easy for tattoo lines not to be done deep enough or to be done so close they run together and detail is lost.

Theresa seems to maybe have been an adventurous sort of girl (if the trip to see bigfoot was something she did willingly) and pelvic inflammation as seen in the Doe might not be surprising if she had caught chlamydia from one of her first sexual experiences and it was not detected. The scar could be due to dealing with the consequences of the pelvic inflammation, not due to a pregnancy. The autopsy doesn't seem to draw conclusions about pregnancy.

Theresa had a surgical scar on her leg due to a fracture. The true extent of the injuries associated with getting that scar are not described in her profile, but most minor fractures do get dealt with by just casts, don't they? It was obviously something major.

Her hair looks the right color.

The protruding teeth don't seem so bad in the photo of her. Maybe they looked more so when she smiled, or she just had the most protruding teeth in her family so that influenced the description given?

I think I'd run off with someone too after a while camping with a whacko who believed in bigfoot. Chances are they didn't take the right equipment or enough food. She may have just taken what she could get in the way of a ride so she could get out of there and get fed, and been very unlucky. Maybe the guys she was with were her second ride after leaving R.W.?

And lastly, this is entirely subjective and intuitive on my part and maybe a bit silly, Theresa's face looks like it goes with those legs. I know, I know, not very scientific of me. But every girl I'be known who had a face like that also had that sort of thigh and calf that had more flesh on the outside edge than the inside edge, which is what her leg seems to be like.
Click to expand...

It is so good to have some fresh perspective on this Doe thank you! Sometimes I feel like I am so close to this girl and have this whole notion in my mind of what happened to her that I need to realise that in fact I don't!

Regarding the tattoo, I do believe that the initials are B.H and although it is poorly done the person who did do it appears to have attempted some sort of detail on either side. I am still thinking that it is either the initials of a man that was in her life or that of a child.

Regarding her pelvic inflammation, I do believe she had caught chlamydia due to sexual intercourse and that the scar may be further linked with this however I am also under the impression that the ME would be able to tell the differences (would a Cesarean scar not be slightly bigger?).

I will happily ask Theresa to be compared to this Doe though as Amy who is now in charge of the case, is very open to possible matches and as you can see from Namus the rule out's are being constantly updated (now up to 134).

P
 
The Doe Network has updated/changed our SJD's details as of 25 January 2012 and they now as per Namus :)

:great:
 
pearly said:
IMO, I do not believe (due to how long this case has been unsolved for), that we can rule anyone out based on circumstances they went missing or where they may have come from.
I do agree that there is a large inconsistency with being a victim and then becoming the perp in a robbery however when I spoke to detectives in 2009 they informed me that SJD was 'partying' with the men and then up and left the residence they were partying at and was subsequently followed by one of the men. When she arrived at the said residence she appeared to hold on to one of the verandah poles and not let go and this was the 'ruckus' the homeowner was presented with.
I eventually would like to clear up with LE which is correct (the robbery or party story).
Click to expand...

I would be more likly to believe the party story, if she was 5'7 and that skinny, I am pretty sure she was smoking crack,very common and easy to find in TN, plus that would explain why she freaked out and sometimes Crack is not detected in an autopsy if they arent looking for it , that also would explain why the men took off ASAP answered the full questioning later:seeya:
 
This girl is so close to my heart, I have been working on her case for a number of years.....hopefully this new recon provides us with some new leads
 
I'd like to suggest Myriam Isabella Kniaz as a match for SJD.
http://doenetwork.org/cases/510dfqc.html

She disappeared in `81 when she was 16 from Quebec where she was in foster care. She was 5'5"ish and weighed 110ish lbs. In her pic she has a really pointy chin, which SJD had. She is also very thin.

Another thing is, she's from Canada. I don't know if they've always had their tax paid health system, but if they did, that could explain how she got care for her injuries. When she broke both her ankles, and she needed help, couldn't she have gone into a rehab like place until she could walk again?
 
buffetoflies said:
Blowing
Up
My
Pants

For thoughts! anyone?
Click to expand...

Yes I just have a feeling she was homeless, smoking crack withthem, freaked out, got herself shot and just has never been reported missing. It seems for every 1 person reported missing there are probably 10 more out there that arent :(

So frustrating!
 
sloane7777 said:
Yes I just have a feeling she was homeless, smoking crack withthem, freaked out, got herself shot and just has never been reported missing. It seems for every 1 person reported missing there are probably 10 more out there that arent :(

So frustrating!
Click to expand...

Sorry for the late reply! It is so hard to know with this girl, anyone who looks like her doesn't appear to be a match so I am happy to submit for you as I talk to Amy who is the cold case contact?

Very sad to think that we may never find out who she is! :(
 
pearly said:
Sorry for the late reply! It is so hard to know with this girl, anyone who looks like her doesn't appear to be a match so I am happy to submit for you as I talk to Amy who is the cold case contact?

Very sad to think that we may never find out who she is! :(
Click to expand...

I know, but good that there are those who will not stop trying Pearly! alot can be said about persistence:)
 
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