2012.05.17 Doc Dump Thread

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BBM

Where is the proof of this?

Originally Posted by TiaMarie
This is the kicker and I agree. If not for GZ's actions of running after and confronting TM, none of this would have ever happened. Believe me when I say that this will be an integral part of the Prosecution's case. The confrontation was avoidable had GZ just listened to the dispatcher's instruction.
There is no way GZ can utilize SYG or self defense in this instance. Actually, they have every right to utilize them, but they will not be successful.


At the very least...There is PROOF that GZ followed Trayvon...GZ admitted this himself. I too believe this will be an integral part of the Prosecution's case. It will be up to the jury to decide what is logical and reasonable to believe based upon their interpretation of the evidence presented at trial. Seriously...This situation was avoidable! If only GZ had not followed Trayvon and just waited in his truck for LE! As GZ was trained to do...


~JMHO
 
The documents nor the charging affidavit prove that GZ confronted TM or that GZ initiated the physical confrontation.

Further, Gilbreath on the stand during the bond hearing testified they had no evidence on how it started or who started the fight.
Both LE and the SAO believe GZ confronted TM, as do I.
I don't know how to bring my own post forward with what I said but I said nothing about physical confrontation. I said that GZ confronted TM. GZ made initial contact when he should have just stayed in his truck.

con·front/kənˈfrənt/
Verb:
Meet (someone) face to face with hostile or argumentative intent.
 
~Snipped by me

The facts may be...that tragically, TM is dead within an hour because GZ decided to use his GUN to deal with a problem rather than his intelligence. Trayvon had no ESP to discern what GZ's intentions were...

I don't know many people who teach their kids to walk up to STRANGERS and say "HI, here is where i'm staying..." As parent's we teach our kids starting as early as Pre-school about "stranger-danger"! We drill it into their heads DO NOT talk to strangers! We tell them run-scream-fight back - do what you have to do to get away or be heard!

What is SAD is children having to grow up in a society fearing being abducted and/or abused. But that is reality...


A man being savagely beaten does not have the option to intellectualize...it is self preservation. TM had the option to stop. A man being beaten whose cries for help go unanswered will do whatever he must to save his life.
w

Why is it Trayvon at 17 years-old should be held to a higher standard than an adult- GZ? IMAGINE... if GZ had been taught how to appropriately approach a situation...instead of rudeness, sense of entitlement?
Oh wait...he was taught in the Neighborhood Watch training class.

~JMHO

Aman being savagely beaten will act in self preservation. At 17 this was no child. this was a young adult. Until the beating, no one abused him. He was in no fear of a man he was beating into the cement.

But a Man/GZ wouldn't have been "savagely beaten" (as you claim) had he stayed in his truck!

QUESTION: Do you think this tragedy could have had a VERY different outcome if GZ had simply waited in his truck for LE to arrive? Or if GZ had just identified himself? Outcome being...Trayvon would still be alive.
 
IIRC, by the 7-11 video, the can of "tea" was put in a bag. What happened to the 7-11 bag?

--possibly answered by now---but the tan plastic 7-11 bag appears to be evidence marker #2, found on the sidewalk.

tanbag2.jpg
 
Both LE and the SAO believe GZ confronted TM, as do I.
I don't know how to bring my own post forward with what I said but I said nothing about physical confrontation. I said that GZ confronted TM. GZ made initial contact when he should have just stayed in his truck.

con·front/kənˈfrənt/
Verb:
Meet (someone) face to face with hostile or argumentative intent.

Fair enough, I just don't see anything in the documents just released that shows how GZ 'confronted' TM.

And then, how did GZ confront TM? Did he walk up to him? Ask him something?

Is there anything in the documents that shows this?
 
Originally Posted by TiaMarie
This is the kicker and I agree. If not for GZ's actions of running after and confronting TM, none of this would have ever happened. Believe me when I say that this will be an integral part of the Prosecution's case. The confrontation was avoidable had GZ just listened to the dispatcher's instruction.
There is no way GZ can utilize SYG or self defense in this instance. Actually, they have every right to utilize them, but they will not be successful.


At the very least...There is PROOF that GZ followed Trayvon...GZ admitted this himself. I too believe this will be an integral part of the Prosecution's case. It will be up to the jury to decide what is logical and reasonable to believe based upon their interpretation of the evidence presented at trial. Seriously...This situation was avoidable! If only GZ had not followed Trayvon and just waited in his truck for LE! As GZ was trained to do...


~JMHO

Following and confronting are two separate things. GZ was not breaking the law when he got out of his car.
 
That doesn't mean he didn't have a right to walk outside.
That is not what the person was claiming and I was answering. They said George belonged to the neighborhood association. He does not.
 
I watched the tape last night I did not see a receipt given,I have never been handed a receipt at any 711 if I did not ask for one.

I was referring to the internal electronic receipts maintained by the store for record keeping purposes.
 
~Snipped by me

The facts may be...that tragically, TM is dead within an hour because GZ decided to use his GUN to deal with a problem rather than his intelligence. Trayvon had no ESP to discern what GZ's intentions were...

I don't know many people who teach their kids to walk up to STRANGERS and say "HI, here is where i'm staying..." As parent's we teach our kids starting as early as Pre-school about "stranger-danger"! We drill it into their heads DO NOT talk to strangers! We tell them run-scream-fight back - do what you have to do to get away or be heard!

What is SAD is children having to grow up in a society fearing being abducted and/or abused. But that is reality...

Why is it Trayvon at 17 years-old should be held to a higher standard than an adult- GZ? IMAGINE... if GZ had been taught how to appropriately approach a situation...instead of rudeness, sense of entitlement?
Oh wait...he was taught in the Neighborhood Watch training class.

~JMHO

BRBM.
Rudeness and entitlement? IMO, you can't get much ruder than beating the carp out of a stranger because he asked you what you were up to.

JMO, OMO, AND MOO
 
Stmarysmead, can't quote your post as it takes up the whole box on my iPad and can't scroll down to the bottom either. No there is no law that GZ should have stayed in his car but there is common sense. I don't know that Trayvon was 'darting' between buildings and Trayvon was on his way home or to where he was staying. GZ's injuries tell me Trayvon was a scared kid trying to get away from a potential abduction. GZ should have identidied himself. There was plenty of opportunity. I want to hear where GZ identified himself to Trayvon but so far haven't.
 
BRBM.
Rudeness and entitlement? IMO, you can't get much ruder than beating the carp out of a stranger because he asked you what you were up to.

JMO, OMO, AND MOO
I agree that would be rude, if that's what happened. It's not what happened in this case, however.
 
Are you sure about that? Do you have a specific document in mind that you think is hiding a key piece of evidence? Most of the stuff looks like names and addresses.

O'Mara said several times that he wanted time to look over the material to see what needed further redaction. There are entire statments blacked out, not just names and adresses. Why?
 
O'Mara said several times that he wanted time to look over the material to see what needed further redaction. There are entire statments blacked out, not just names and adresses. Why?

IDK, why didn't he black all the negative stuff then, like the witness who said he got into a confrontation with a middle easterner?

I'm just saying MOM wasn't the only one doing the redacting, the prosecution did as well.
 
Following and confronting are two separate things. GZ was not breaking the law when he got out of his car.

Yes, following and confronting are two different things. But we KNOW GZ FOLLOWED Trayvon. We KNOW there was a CONFRONTATION. The jury will decide WHO actually started the confrontation. It is yet to be determined by the jury if GZ broke the law by getting out of his truck. But, at this point the SA believes GZ broke the law for he is charged with 2nd degree Murder.

GZ could have avoided all of this had he NOT gotten out of his truck.
 
Yes, following and confronting are two different things. But we KNOW GZ FOLLOWED Trayvon. We KNOW there was a CONFRONTATION. The jury will decide WHO actually started the confrontation. It is yet to be determined by the jury if GZ broke the law by getting out of his truck. But, at this point the SA believes GZ broke the law for he is charged with 2nd degree Murder.

GZ could have avoided all of this had he NOT gotten out of his truck.

If TM started the confrontation, attacked GZ, it's not going to matter if GZ got out of his car IMO. If who started the confrontation can't be proven, the state is going to have an uphill battle. They are going to have huge uphill battle if it's proven that TM was on top of GZ wailing on him without knowing who started the confrontation.
 
But a Man/GZ wouldn't have been "savagely beaten" (as you claim) had he stayed in his truck!

QUESTION: Do you think this tragedy could have had a VERY different outcome if GZ had simply waited in his truck for LE to arrive? Or if GZ had just identified himself? Outcome being...Trayvon would still be alive.

Yes. But I also think it would have had a very different outcome if TM had not attacked GZ. Or if TM hadn't been suspended. Or if GZ hadn't had pitbull issues and bought a gun to protect himself. The list goes on and on, but IMO the deciding factor in this whole chain of events is the one closest to the shooting. And with this doc dump, it looks to me that the evidence supports GZ's story that TM attacked him, and GZ was on the ground, being beaten and screaming for help.

JMO, OMO, and MOO
 
O'Mara said several times that he wanted time to look over the material to see what needed further redaction. There are entire statments blacked out, not just names and adresses. Why?

Why indeed. I think when we see it we will know. I can't wait for the text records. Wonder why those haven't been released.....hmmmmmmmmmm. Oh and the full Dr. report. I have a huge feeling it's not all favorable to GZ.
 
I think when the bits that MOM blacked out come to light... it's going to be more than obivious why there is 2nd degree murder charges. He blacked out wayyyyyyy more than witness info and there is only one reason for that...it looks bad for GZ. IMOOOOOO.

I don't think MOM blacked out anything, all those documents came from the prosecutors office.

O'Mara said several times that he wanted time to look over the material to see what needed further redaction. There are entire statments blacked out, not just names and adresses. Why?

whoa nellie...hold up! lol

I can tell you legally speaking, the judge had to approve the redactions, per the Sunshine Laws. Neither side gets to redact what they want to at will. There is a checks & balances system here.

The public's right to access per the Sunshine Laws prevail. I can guarantee that anything redacted was done to protect witnesses or minors. There is no way that the judge would permit ANY redactions that he did not feel were warranted. IOW, he would not permit any sort of evidence to be redacted just because one side felt it would be too prejudicial.
 
Excellent post.


The facts may be...that tragically, TM is dead within an hour because he decided to use his fists to deal with a problem rather than his intelligence. The "cowboy" had no ESP to discern what TM's intentions were.

It's also a tragedy that residents of all races live in such fear that they need Watch Captains for extra protection, but that is a sorry fact. All of our children have to understand that it is those who harrass these neighborhoods that bring about a need for watchfulness or profiling. If old blonde women are causing the majority of crime in my neighborhood, then it is THEIR actions that cause me to be watched more closely. It is statistics that caused GZ to watch TM. Statistics are not racism, hatred or bias...they are just FACT not emotion. Working with fact is the only common sense way to protect your neighborhood.

IMO it is also tragic that so many good kids now wish to dress and style themselves and TALK as if they were "gangstas." Of course, they have the right...but do parents talk about the possible consequences? Or do we now feel so entitled that it is demanded that others discern the real thugs from the "pretenders?"

Imagine if TM had been taught to walk up to an adult and say "hi...I'm visiting with *advertiser censored* in Condo C. I thought you might wonder who I am...and I want to know that I'll be here for over a week." Kids used to be taught respect,humility, and how to approach a situation.....instead of rudeness, sense of entitlement, and finally, physical confrontation.

The media once again...was not content with truth or facts. TM was made five years younger and angelic. Anything negative about himwas met with emotional hysteria...as if TM's perfection was NOT to be questioned. Meantime, they scoured the gutter for anybody to say anything bad about GZ...could any of us stand against an army of paid character assassins reporting any unsubstaniated dirt? Everything was EMOTION. They did not even get GZ's race correctly reported...because the story was juicer if GZ was "white." Members of Congress referred to TM being "shot like a dog in the street."...as if there was no confrontation. TM's parents became media stars...and supposedly both quit their jobs. This became a one sided emotional Lynch Mob...demanding outcomes on falsely reported media "facts." Now the fairy tale is falling apart as FACTS come out. The media will slink away. They will report the stuff they don't like in a paragraph buried somewhere in the back where most will never see it. They have destroyed a man without a trial...to the point where our President (a lawyer) and our AG COMMENT on a case not yet gone to trial. Who is not going to convict GZ...he killed "the President's "son!!!!"

You may like this...but it is NOT justice. The whole matter is now disintegrating...fracturing into piles of little separate EXPOSED LIES. Just as Nancy grace took the night off when the Duke lacrosse Hoax was exposed...the media will slink away from the hysteria and lies they promoted. Think it's okay? Well, it could happen to you and yours.

Real subjects for scrutiny..like SYG laws will fade to the back again...just as the false duke Hoax set back REAL rape victims. In time, less and less people will give any credence to the important tangential issues because they feel duped by the fairy tale the media encapsulated those issues in.

So we all lose.
 
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