AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #21

[time]

So what kind of an abductor would take the time to wipe prints off toyshelves, books, mirrors and dressers? It makes no sense to me. It's not like they'd be touching all of those things. Opening and closing the window all the time, you'd have prints on them.

Good catch on all that rose. Are you saying you think there were no visible or latent prints?

 

[carole]

Just seeing a pink page, search page

Try this link

http://neighbors.whitepages.com/search/neighbor_search?utf8=✓&street=5602+E.+12th,+&where=tucson+az

 

[winterrose]

Good catch on all that rose. Are you saying you think there were no visible or latent prints?

That's what it sounds like, maybe someone will come on who knows that forensics stuff tonight. Here's the pic from pdf again...

 

[time]

Right but it seems odd that police would allow him to leave without talking to him first. If he talked to police why would he not alert the police to the tunnels instead of him going himself.

Did they have a road block up immediately and he talked to them because of that? Sorry, I'm confused.

 

[Ladylub]

Did they have a road block up immediately and he talked to them because of that? Sorry, I'm confused.

When the police first showed up they did not. I just do not understand why instead of talking to a police officer if one was right there in the neighborhood would he go running off to the tunnels himself.

 

[time]

That's what it sounds like, maybe someone will come on who knows that forensics stuff tonight. Here's the pic from pdf again...

Hmmm .... it doesn't say there weren't any visible prints, but now I realize I don't understand how they take visible prints without messing up latent prints anyway - but that would only be a problem if they overlapped, I guess. They could have already lifted or photographed visible prints?

 

[Azcrabcakes]

I am sure that this has been talked about a zillion times ---but somethin else-besides what Isabel was wearing when she disappeared is bothering me.

When the police arrive at the home and an officer has what he calls a brief conversation with Mom, he asks her where she thinks her daughter is -and she says -her son has ?????. Which leads the officer to ask would or could he harm her?
Also, she didn't check on Isabel before she left for work. Maybe she didn't want to wake her up, but I can't imagine my Mom leaving for work and not kissing me goodbye. (thanks Mom)

And then back to Dad (sorry) . When asked did he know who could have taken Isabel, which would require just a yes or no answer, he goes into a short story he grew up there, knows all the neighbors, Isabel plays outside and down the street..OH and by the way there is a SEX OFFENDER that lives down the street. WHAAAAAAAAAT?!!? You KNOW he lives there and you allow her to PLAY down the street. YIKES.

What bothers me is both of them offer up someone in their own special way that could have harmed Isabel. Lots of information given when they could have just said yes or no. Lots of details on these sorts of things but they have really bad memories when it comes to the real facts of the night she disappeared.

I think a lot of people have the "Nothing bad will happen to me or my family." Daily I am amazed at some of my neighbors, and my daughter's neighbors as well - allowing LITTLE children, 1-5 years old, to ride Big Wheels and play in the middle of the street - with little to no supervision. Other neighbors get so fearful, and annoyed that a street that gets a fair amount of traffic is a playground to little kids. Yet, I have watched this for a dozen years and no one has been hurt.

Apparently SC trusts that RSO in his neighborhood. I would be civil, but that would be the extent of it.

The creepy white-shirted guy and the CDs is most interesting to me. I really want to know more about the man/men and who is the renter/owner of the storage unit and its contents!

Did the TPD ever interview Old McDonald in depth?

 

[time]

When the police first showed up they did not. I just do not understand why instead of talking to a police officer if one was right there in the neighborhood would he go running off to the tunnels himself.

Gotcha! Some people are just goobers, some want to play heros, or maybe some are hiding evidence or revisiting the area they know there is something. I don't know which this guy is but he sure made himself look suspicious.

 

[FrayedKnot]

Personally, I am surprised they'd have her shower that late at night when she would be getting dirty playing ball less than 11 hours later.

Meh, I probably would have made my lil Knot shower, but it's really a moot point since I wouldn't let my 6 year old stay up that late ESPECIALLY if she had a game at 9 am.

As odd as I think the 'events' of the whole evening are, I also understand different families have different habits so really, none of it is indicative of familial involvement in Isa's disappearance.

However, the family's maddening inability to state consistent facts and times IS indicative of knowledge/guilt/cover up. JMHO

 

[gliving]

I'd like to break down the different dogs. The first day we have the K9 DOC dogs from the Dept. of Corrections which I believe were brought in from the local prison. Then a couple days later the special FBI dogs arrive.

The DOC dogs are from the first morning are tracked to the neighbor's house and then headed south. They may have also been used in later days. The FBI dogs were the 'foreign scent' and cadaver dogs.

So all the dog hits we are reading about on the 500+ docs are the DOC K9 unit dogs. Which is good because they are trained in tracking. Remember how LE used the special cotton ball on the window to obtain scent. I guess this was for the FBI dogs? In the docs somewhere it explains how all the officers who were at the house had to come back and have the FBI dogs sniff them so they could be ruled out. Then supposedly, one of the dogs alerted to a 'foreign scent'. I wonder if the FBI dogs were also used as tracking dogs. Wish we had the FBI documents.

Aren't dogs cool? I'm reading Power of the Dog by Les Krantz and it's amazing what they can smell. Some dogs' sense of smell is 100,000 times more acute than a human.

I wonder where the little white dog is. She knows what happened.

ETA if someone sees reference to FBI dogs, please let me know. TIA!

 

[abstr]

True. (Well, breakfast WOULD be nice, since it's not quite clear if the Celis family all had dinner the night before, or not. Just potato chips at the game? Dunno what dishes were in the sink, of course. ) :moo:

It wasn't stated anywhere I saw that they all ate dinner the evening before but I will give them the benefit of the doubt that they fed their children. I like to have things stated as fact but I presume most parents feed their kids.
Isa looked like a healthy little girl.
Also, if (and I know it's an if) we believe Sergio he offered Isa something to eat before she went to bed.
JMO

 

[spoiledmom]

Yes. And this bugs me to no end. At what point does completely inappropriate behavior rightfully provoke suspicion?

This man (SC) is just screaming out "suspect me! Suspect me!".

Can I help it if I do? Lol

I agree. I do not believe him AT ALL. I do believe RC. I think that she has faith in her husband and will not accept that he may be lying. It's pretty sad. I really felt sorry for the parents when I heard about Isabel missing, then I saw their first press conference. That is when the red flags started going up. SC did not seem authentic at all. It seemed like an act. Later I had heard RUMORS about him being involved in things that made LE suspicious of him. Now I just can't get it out of my head. I can't believe anything he says anymore and I feel sorry for his wife and children. I just pray LE knows the truth and is close to an arrest. I still believe the reason the boys were taken away from SC was related to this case. I wish those documents would explain this but I think the reason it wasn't released to the public is because it is an important piece of the puzzle. I don't have an idea what really happened to Isa. I believe SC is involved whether she is found alive or dead. He is involved IMO. Doesn't mean he acted alone though and I wonder if that is why he hasn't been arrested yet. I think it is coming soon, IMO.

 

[DhyanaAZ]

Did they have a road block up immediately and he talked to them because of that? Sorry, I'm confused.

I first saw the roads blocked off at around 9 am on the 21st, if that helps.
Of course they could have blocked it off earlier, that's just the time I first saw patrol cars stopping people coming in and out of the neighborhood.

 

[time]

Try this link

http://neighbors.whitepages.com/search/neighbor_search?utf8=✓&street=5602+E.+12th,+&where=tucson+az

Did you back trace the phone number for A

It weirdly is listed also for Redeemer Lutheran Church and Vals Tumble Bus (a Health Club facility on 12th St!) :waitasec:

This may be a different Rumble Bus, but ... (link)

 

[FrayedKnot]

Gotcha! Some people are just goobers, some want to play heros, or maybe some are hiding evidence or revisiting the area they know there is something. I don't know which this guy is but he sure made himself look suspicious.

Wow! Good point!

I mean, look at us. We devote countless hours trying to decipher the more puzzling parts of these cases. We might seem suspicious to a LEO investigating the crime.

Mr. Knot finds it very unsettling that I am as interested in reading every page of the PDFs as I am. Especially when we are on a mini vacation. Oops.

 

[gliving]

Because in an effort to 'cover adequately' maybe they forgot that SOME prints are supposed to be there.

IMHO, a stranger abductor would not have taken the time to wipe down surfaces of prints. They'd have worn gloves and not worried about the family's prints being there.

I don't think anyone wiped down the surfaces. Did I miss something? It just said there were no latent prints. I was making a joke about the perp OCD cleaning and I'm sorry if I mislead you.

 

[Prof]

Prof... this one attachment you just posted

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=22781&d=1338246039

Last sentence, suspicious person is 35, white, black hair, 5'10", 215#, white shirt.

I looked up NM on veromi and he is 35. I don't know if he is described more by LE... I thought he might have been but not as detailed. I guess if NM is a skinny guy, the deal is off.

(adding, also NM was wearing a white tshirt and the other guy a white shirt.)

Yes, I notice that. I want a pic lol dig up any?

 

[WhatsupAZ]

I first saw the roads blocked off at around 9 am on the 21st, if that helps.
Of course they could have blocked it off earlier, that's just the time I first saw patrol cars stopping people coming in and out of the neighborhood.

How soon before YOU became aware that a child was missing? How did you figure out what was going on? Tia

 

[FrayedKnot]

I don't think anyone wiped down the surfaces. Did I miss something? It just said there were no latent prints. I was making a joke about the perp OCD cleaning and I'm sorry if I mislead you.

No! I was agreeing that it was odd there were no LATENT prints! There should have been. It is a child's room and there should be prints galore.

And if there were not, it would mean that a perp wiped down the room to hide prints that they didn't want found.

I just meant that a stranger abductor probably would have worn gloves and not worried about wiping down prints.

But an inside job done in a more panicked mode may have thought that wiping everything down was a good way to cover adequately.

Sorry if you thought I was challenging. i was agreeing!

 

[Prof]

Thanks for this timeline, so this means technically the last time Isabel was seen by anyone else that can be verified is around 9 p.m. on the night of the 20th, which widens the time frame during which something could have happened to her - especially if her immediate family is not telling the truth and made up the scenarios with showers/hair-braiding and going to bed. I wonder if by some chance Isa left the ball park with someone else? I've so far believed the family was telling the truth about being at home with her late evening, but we don't have actual proof of that, so it's good to know about LE checking the traffics cams.

Well, we do have a coach who stated that the family stayed after the game, and SC helped pick up the bases, and they were at the park until about 10 or 10:30 as far as I remember.