AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #22

[johnQpublic]

If you look at the Pima County Crime Map and use the date range from Dec 1st to June 1st, there isn't even any sort of activity near the celis home except some sort of vandalism on cooper and graffiti at the end of the street. So whatever calls were for something at the C residence for sure were minor and probably had nothing to do with them.

 

[Prof]

The only report I am aware of about prior CPS was from the 5/18 candlelight vigil.

Snips:
Sergio Celis' sister, Elena Lukasiewicz, also went to the walk.

Sergio Celis had never talked to CPS until last Thursday, according to Lukasiewicz.

http://www.kvoa.com/news/isabel-celis-mother-attends-candlelight-vigil-walk/

Thanks, that's all I remember, too. I personally would not take that as fact that IC or SC were not part of the CPS investigation in December.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Again i don't believe that LE thinks that isa is in the area.. regardless of terrain nd heat if they strongly believed that isa was murdered and disposed of in the area they would be having regular. .map gridded searches until the remains were located. .just like is being regularly and methodically done in the sierra LaMar case. .IMO i believe either LE has NOTHING AT ALL INDICATING WHERE ISA MIGHT BE OR THEY HAVE INFO INDICATING SHE IS LIKELY NOT IN THE AREA. .

IF THIS LE HAD INFORMATION INDICATING SHE WAS MURDERED AND DISPOSED OF IN THE TUSCON AREA(AND SURROUNDING COUNTIES) THEY ABSOLUTELY WOULD BE WORKING HARD TO CLEAR AREAS AND THAT IS DONE WITH REGULAR.. REPEATED.. MAP GRIDDED SEARCHES. .THAT IS NOT OCCURRING. .

The money is going towards the reward fund as well and these parents are regularly at the search center.. delivering water and refreshments.. thanking volunteers. .and has continued to fully cooperate with LE and staying in contact with LE answering their questions.. oh well for those who that is not good enough for. .its not as if they are the Irwin and refusing to be questioned.. this family has been interviewed separately and absolutely have no lawyer.. they are doing things and if its not good enough for some.oh well don't help.. don't donate..don't follow..they are asking nothing from anyone who doesn't want to help.. so don't..

There obviously is a ton going on and people can speculate til the cows come home none of it will matter in the end but these parents arent just sitting with their thumb up their azz. .for any who don't think its enough. .IMO its just tough because its not our child and its not our decision.. people can complain all they like it makes zero difference.

 

[johnQpublic]

Ok, sorry to offend, but I think I read your posts and replied accordingly. Anyway, there appear to be no public searches being done in this case, either random or organized.

Just because YOU don't see it on the news, does not mean it aint going on.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

A special fund has been established to assist the search for Isabel Mercedes Celis and to support the family. This money will be used to help the family in their search for their daughter and helps the volunteers to print fliers, banners and other search materials...

http://bringisahome.com/donations/

The "donations" page does not specifically mention the "reward" fund - unless you get to that when you click on how you want your donation to be used. I won't do that until I'm certain that the family has no involvement in or knowledge of Isabel's disappearance. :moo:

 

[FrayedKnot]

I dont agree. I have seen how the power of prayer works. Even doctors have admitted that it seems to work miracles.

They have to have faith that Isa will return to them and can never lose hope. Marc Klass always stresses to each parent in this same type of situation to never lose hope or give up. So the Celis' pray to God to help them.

I dont think this is going to end like they are praying it does but I dont fault them for one second for praying everyday.

Evil walks among us all and sometimes it is more powerful than good.

IMO

ITA that prayer and personal faith are powerful things. :rocker:

But my Grandmother always told us, when were little and said we were gonna pray for something, "Say those prayers, but remember that the Lord helps those who help themselves."

That lady was a woman of very strong faith, and that's what gave her the fuel to TCOB and make good things happen in her life!

Isa's parents are doing what? Napping? JMO

 

[Lark2]

Just because YOU don't see it on the news, does not mean it aint going on.

I disagree. If there were public searches going on, you would be hearing about them. They'd have to recruit for them, and media would be following their progress.

Also, there was an article posted today in the local AZ paper that said volunteer participation has dramatically slowed at the volunteer center. Maybe that's because most people don't buy the family's story. In fact, there was a poll in the AZ paper after the 911 call came out and 100 percent of the respondents to the poll believed SC had something to do with Isabel's disappearance.

When a family member is strongly suspected of having involvement in these cases, there comes a time when searching stops and LE turn their resources to outing the suspect.

 

[Lark2]

There obviously is a ton going on and people can speculate til the cows come home none of it will matter in the end but these parents arent just sitting with their thumb up their azz. .for any who don't think its enough. .IMO its just tough because its not our child and its not our decision.. people can complain all they like it makes zero difference.

<Mod Snip>Media have reported that they have been very scarce at the volunteer center, and obviously, they don't do media.

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

I dont trust LE anymore because of two cases.

LE can lie about anything they want and imo they lied to Steve because they had tunnel vision and thought he had something to do with the heinous crimes committed against his family.

And imo, LE lied again when they told an elderly grandmother (Ruth Lunsford) that she had failed too.

They were doing nothing more than putting pressure on people they were so sure were involved.

IMO

I'm sorry that you trust LE, I do. I know they aren't perfect, and make plenty of mistakes, but really they have all of my respect. Without them we are doomed.

Mr. Groene if what I have read is true, lacked an alibi. That is why he failed -parts of the polygraph.

I am not sure about Mrs. Lunsfords test results. But it is obvious they made huge mistakes in Jessie's case.

 

[FrayedKnot]

While I believe that prayer is very powerful, and I also believe that miracles really do happen, I also believe that my God helps those who help themselves. I really don't know what the Celis's should be doing, I know if it was my daughter, I would have to do more than pray.

LOL, sorry, CJ! I didn't see your post before I posted! JINX! :dance:

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

LOL, sorry, CJ! I didn't see your post before I posted! JINX! :dance:

I have been told that great minds think alike!!:blushing::blushing:

 

[SilkySifaka]

I'm sorry that you trust LE, I do. I know they aren't perfect, and make plenty of mistakes, but really they have all of my respect. Without them we are doomed.

Mr. Groene if what I have read is true, lacked an alibi. That is why he failed -parts of the polygraph.

I am not sure about Mrs. Lunsfords test results. But it is obvious they made huge mistakes in Jessie's case.

This gets me really angry. I will never forget until my dying day that image of Steve Groene standing next to Geraldo and telling the world that he had failed the polygraph according to the FBI. It was the day my faith in them went out the window. It had NOTHING to do with no alibie it had everything to do with the FBI falsely telling him that he failed to pressure him.

In fact, they were blindsided by the fact Steve went on national tv that night and told the world. They hemmed and hawed and finally admitted he had not failed the test!!!!!

It was the most disgusting bit of police work I have ever seen and my blood pressure is back through the roof even thinking of doing that to a grieving parent.

IMO only because I can't find video from back then.

ETA. it was grotesque. Like finding a candy apple is full of worms...to know that LE acted like that and lied to the poor man. I knew about evil people before that but I never believed in bad LE until then.

ETA twice...and i have never trusted any LE's word about a case without verification since that day. To try and destroy an innocent father using lies...blew me away. Use the truth if you suspect him, to LIE? when he is terrified every minute for his daughter and son? Who are in the hands of one of the worst madmen in the countries history?

ETA thrice. I sure hope TPD has not taken a leaf from that LE case, they did a sorry job on that case, only hurting the innocent and not one clue about Duncan did they ferret out until he brought Shasta back. It is never beyond my mind that TPD is doing the same to Isabel's parents or can be i should say..

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

A special fund has been established to assist the search for Isabel Mercedes Celis and to support the family. This money will be used to help the family in their search for their daughter and helps the volunteers to print fliers, banners and other search materials...

http://bringisahome.com/donations/

The "donations" page does not specifically mention the "reward" fund - unless you get to that when you click on how you want your donation to be used. I won't do that until I'm certain that the family has no involvement in or knowledge of Isabel's disappearance. :moo:

I am afraid to say what I am really thinking about supporting the family.

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

This gets me really angry. I will never forget until my dying day that image of Steve Groene standing next to Geraldo and telling the world that he had failed the polygraph according to the FBI. It was the day my faith in them went out the window. It had NOTHING to do with no alibie it had everything to do with the FBI falsely telling him that he failed to pressure him.

In fact, they were blindsided by the fact Steve went on national tv that night and told the world. They hemmed and hawed and finally admitted he had not failed the test!!!!!

It was the most disgusting bit of police work I have ever seen and my blood pressure is back through the roof even thinking of doing that to a grieving parent.

IMO only because I can't find video from back then.

ETA. it was grotesque. Like finding a candy apple is full of worms...to know that LE acted like that and lied to the poor man. I knew about evil people before that but I never believed in bad LE until then.

ETA twice...and i have never trusted any LE's word about a case without verification since that day. To try and destroy an innocent father using lies...blew me away. Use the truth if you suspect him, to LIE? when he is terrified every minute for his daughter and son? Who are in the hands of one of the worst madmen in the countries history?

ETA thrice. I sure hope TPD has not taken a leaf from that LE case, they did a sorry job on that case, only hurting the innocent and not one clue about Duncan did they ferret out until he brought Shasta back. It is never beyond my mind that TPD is doing the same to Isabel's parents or can be i should say..

The father of two children missing from a home where three people were killed failed parts of a lie detector test, but is not a suspect in the case, authorities said.
Steve Groene said in a television interview that he lacked an alibi and failed portions of a voluntary polygraph test administered by the FBI, but Kootenai County sheriff's Capt. Ben Wolfinger said that was not enough to make Groene a suspect
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-05-24-polygraph_x.htm

Also-let me add that he volunteered for the test. Although I have never personally had the chance to speak to Mr. Groene he is a friend of a classmate of mine. I will send a message through her to ask his feelings on this case.

Sorry if I upset you. It wasn't my intentions.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I am afraid to say what I am really thinking about supporting the family.

Don't worry: We probably have similar thoughts

 

[SilkySifaka]

The father of two children missing from a home where three people were killed failed parts of a lie detector test, but is not a suspect in the case, authorities said.
Steve Groene said in a television interview that he lacked an alibi and failed portions of a voluntary polygraph test administered by the FBI, but Kootenai County sheriff's Capt. Ben Wolfinger said that was not enough to make Groene a suspect
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-05-24-polygraph_x.htm

Also-let me add that he volunteered for the test. Although I have never personally had the chance to speak to Mr. Groene he is a friend of a classmate of mine. I will send a message through her to ask his feelings on this case.

Sorry if I upset you. It wasn't my intentions.

I am sorry too, that case just ate at me. I felt so awful for him. Perhaps it is that they hemmed and hawed and came out and cleared him...public sentiment turned against him when he said he failed, and was pretty ugly iirc.

I wasn't upset at you but that case and how it was handled and the pain the dad was in. And if I got it slightly off and it was that he was not a suspect rather than passing the test, I still think it was a terrible thing to tell the father without telling him he was not a suspect at the same time.

I don't know if you are aware but Steve Groene and Shasta became homeless for a period of time after the case. There was a newspaper article about trying to raise a house for them, they had been sleeping on different peoples couches but no one really knew they were actually homeless. Cancer costs probably contributed to the lack of home.

ETA it was the only case I can remember off the top of my head where LE did come out and comment after a parent said they failed..or anyone involved in a case. There was a strong impression they were shocked Steve told the world.

 

[time]

I am afraid to say what I am really thinking about supporting the family.

per this paypal link on

http://bringisahome.com/donations/

When you click it goes to the paypal email. I've always been a bit confused about who the person is with the paypal account. Someone I found earlier had a FB page that talked about how they were handling the donations (it was a male family member - but I couldn't relocate his page when I went back to look).

 

[Dee10]

<Mod Snip>Media have reported that they have been very scarce at the volunteer center, and obviously, they don't do media.

So it is not just me missing how they are down at the center routinely helping, etc. If they are not doing media how would ya know? How would the public know volunteers to search are needed?

From the article I believe Nursebeeme posted earlier:

Volunteers helping with the search efforts for Isabel Celis say they've seen a decline in the number of people coming to the post and helping pass out flyers. The reason, they say, is because they're not as visible to the public anymore.
http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/...celis-volunteers-since-moving-to-new-location

The comments underneath were interesting as well.

 

[johnQpublic]

Personally I find it pretty difficult to point blame at the family at the moment because they don't have a lawyer. Not saying that only guilty people get lawyers but if you arn't lying why would you need a lawyer.... Just my opinion but I just don't see it... I see a couple with a lost daughter avoiding being picked apart by the camera. They will find thier little princess, I'm sure of it and I highly doubt the parents had anything to do with it. It's my opinion and i'm entitled to it.

 

[BaxterDE42]

I dont trust LE anymore because of two cases.

LE can lie about anything they want and imo they lied to Steve because they had tunnel vision and thought he had something to do with the heinous crimes committed against his family.

And imo, LE lied again when they told an elderly grandmother (Ruth Lunsford) that she had failed too.

They were doing nothing more than putting pressure on people they were so sure were involved.

IMO

I don't trust the validity of polygraph testing. In fact, I would never take one and would discourage anyone from sitting in that chair. The "test" is only as good as the order of questioning, the motive and manipulation of the examiner and the interpretation which of course rarely goes well for the parent. Any parental suspect who passes one of these in a missing/murdered child case has nerves of steel or else the examiner has not worked his magic like he is directed. I am sure we all know of suspects who have passed them but before I get the hate posts illowfight: I must say this: Folks there is a reason and valid one that a PolyG is not admissable in court! Junk science.......

I think the reason they are so widely used is the fear factor. A suspects reaction to taking the test could say a lot...or not.
===
MOO