Verdict=**Guilty** & poll

[wenwe4]

Can all of the lies that TS testified on the stand be brought in to her sentencing hearings? It seems we have found so many just since the verdict came in, let alone the ones we found before hand. I would love for the prosecutor to drop by here and read all of the blatent lies she has spewn. Since her charges are forgery and interference related and lying seems to be a consistent pattern of hers - I think it relevant to sentencing. She has lied on the stand, in addition to the whole home for wayward Mother's applications and asking for money for their apartment building. Wonder if any monies were ever donated to her "worthy cause" and used for other purposes . . . just seems that this scammer continues to beg, borrow, lie and steal for her own selfish purposes. Poor unsuspecting people who might actually buy into her lies are set up for failure from the get go . . . IMO.

 

[artsy1]

I found this on zillow. It sounds like it was written by Tammi. She mentioned that they were selling due to husband's move. After viewing the video, we learned it was just under 4000 sq. ft. The ad listed it as 4500! I have no idea of when the write-up was written, but it sounds like it was being sold as complete, including cabinet doors! Why else would it say custom cabinets??? I would assume all cabinets had doors. Google the address for more...

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/16506-E-Desert-Vista-Trl-Scottsdale-AZ-85262/2124514781_zpid/

Well, and you have to wonder why a house first listed for $1.4 million was sold for around $300,000 to TPS. (Look up recorded documents for Maricopa County for the deed....) Even for a foreclosed property, seems to me the bank knew there were issues with the house!

 

[artsy1]

I found this on zillow. It sounds like it was written by Tammi. She mentioned that they were selling due to husband's move. After viewing the video, we learned it was just under 4000 sq. ft. The ad listed it as 4500! I have no idea of when the write-up was written, but it sounds like it was being sold as complete, including cabinet doors! Why else would it say custom cabinets??? I would assume all cabinets had doors. Google the address for more...

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/16506-E-Desert-Vista-Trl-Scottsdale-AZ-85262/2124514781_zpid/

She doesn't actually say that all the doors are included.... :floorlaugh:

 

[wenwe4]

She doesn't actually say that all the doors are included.... :floorlaugh:

She did say big and beautiful house . . . she just didn't mention that it isn't structurally sound. (or safe for young children to live under this "falling" roof)

 

[kissdegirl]

She did say big and beautiful house . . . she just didn't mention that it isn't structurally sound. (or safe for young children to live under this "falling" roof)

Rattlesnakes, falling ceilings and collapsing patios, bee swarms...sign me up! :what:

Wouldn't you need a home study in AZ to adopt? How could that home have possibly passed?

 

[artsy1]

Rattlesnakes, falling ceilings and collapsing patios, bee swarms...sign me up! :what:

Wouldn't you need a home study in AZ to adopt? How could that home have possibly passed?

And the mold in the bathrooms, don't forget the mold in the children's bathroom!! :what:

 

[kissdegirl]

And the mold in the bathrooms, don't forget the mold in the children's bathroom!! :what:

Oh dear, I forgot about that one! If that were my home, I would have just walked away. :blushing:

 

[momtective]

I'm wondering if after testimony revealed that there is no clear custody of the newest baby girl if CPS will somehow become involved with the family? I'm also wondering if Travis Warford (H's) bio father plans to have her adoption revisited and why in the world didn't the SA call him as a witness. He and Tammi's ex were a wealth of information where Tammi is concerned and neither were called as witnesses. :waitasec: I distinctly recall Travis stating "Allegedly, Tammi put Nicki up to getting pregnant and not naming the father."
Half way down the page here http://familypreservation.blogspot.com/2010_08_01_archive.html
Seems to me that would have been pretty important information.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

I'm wondering if after testimony revealed that there is no clear custody of the newest baby girl if CPS will somehow become involved with the family? I'm also wondering if Travis Warford (H's) bio father plans to have her adoption revisited and why in the world didn't the SA call him as a witness. He and Tammi's ex were a wealth of information where Tammi is concerned and neither were called as witnesses. :waitasec: I distinctly recall Travis stating "Allegedly, Tammi put Nicki up to getting pregnant and not naming the father."
Half way down the page here http://familypreservation.blogspot.com/2010_08_01_archive.html
Seems to me that would have been pretty important information.

Thanks for the link. As to why the other adoptions were not highlighted in this trial, I have a feeling that the judge would have found them to be too prejudicial. In the end, this case had to stand on its own. And it did!

Tammi and Jack were both very sketchy on the stand when talking about the adoption of the little sister. Home study? Tammi sort of blew it off by claiming ignorance of the procedures.

Anyone who is adopting is very well aware of the home study. It's more than just if the house is appropriate (which theirs wasn't by any standards) but also a study of the prospective parents as well.

When I was 12, my step-father adopted me. I remember clearly the home study to this day. A social worker looked over the house and interviewed me and my sister at length. While my sister was younger than me, I know that if I had said something negative, the adoption wouldn't go through. I even had a say if my last name was changed when we met with the judge.

I do have to wonder what this case has done to the adoption of the younger girl. I'm sure Tammi and Jack stalled the process due to the condition of the house and the trial. If bio-dad steps up, there could be another custodial interference case afoot. However, I don't know how hard he is willing to fight the Smiths and Nicki. I was also surprised to hear that bio-dad has custody of yet another sister! Poor girls! I wonder if the youngest two even know they have an older sister. Tragic...

 

[CarolinaMoon]

And the mold in the bathrooms, don't forget the mold in the children's bathroom!! :what:

Yup! It would have taken 5 minutes with a scrub brush and some bleach to eradicate it. There's no excuse.

 

[wenwe4]

Yup! It would have taken 5 minutes with a scrub brush and some bleach to eradicate it. There's no excuse.

I was thinking there would not be any mold if they had cleaned up the water after each bath (if in fact that is what the real problem was to begin with) as surmised by the videographer. Prevention is the key here, why leave a ton of water on the floor or allow the child to splash (pour?) that much water outside of the tub? Was there no adult supervision during her baths? Neglect the bathroom . . . neglect the house . . . . neglect the child?

 

[artsy1]

I'm wondering if after testimony revealed that there is no clear custody of the newest baby girl if CPS will somehow become involved with the family? I'm also wondering if Travis Warford (H's) bio father plans to have her adoption revisited and why in the world didn't the SA call him as a witness. He and Tammi's ex were a wealth of information where Tammi is concerned and neither were called as witnesses. :waitasec: I distinctly recall Travis stating "Allegedly, Tammi put Nicki up to getting pregnant and not naming the father."
Half way down the page here http://familypreservation.blogspot.com/2010_08_01_archive.html
Seems to me that would have been pretty important information.

I would guess, at the very least, the fact that TPS was bashing EJ's CPS worker (she was mean to me, she threatened me...) that the worker would have gone back to the office and started pulling court records to see what has been done on S's adoption. I think the fact it hadn't been completed yet, might just give her reason to open a case against TPS & JS, IMHO.

 

[momtective]

Thanks for the link. As to why the other adoptions were not highlighted in this trial, I have a feeling that the judge would have found them to be too prejudicial. In the end, this case had to stand on its own. And it did!

Tammi and Jack were both very sketchy on the stand when talking about the adoption of the little sister. Home study? Tammi sort of blew it off by claiming ignorance of the procedures.

Anyone who is adopting is very well aware of the home study. It's more than just if the house is appropriate (which theirs wasn't by any standards) but also a study of the prospective parents as well.

When I was 12, my step-father adopted me. I remember clearly the home study to this day. A social worker looked over the house and interviewed me and my sister at length. While my sister was younger than me, I know that if I had said something negative, the adoption wouldn't go through. I even had a say if my last name was changed when we met with the judge.

I do have to wonder what this case has done to the adoption of the younger girl. I'm sure Tammi and Jack stalled the process due to the condition of the house and the trial. If bio-dad steps up, there could be another custodial interference case afoot. However, I don't know how hard he is willing to fight the Smiths and Nicki. I was also surprised to hear that bio-dad has custody of yet another sister! Poor girls! I wonder if the youngest two even know they have an older sister. Tragic...

Tragic is an understatement! The lil' girls are so innocent, I believe they were both conceived for no other purpose than for Tammi to have a baby. TW even said ""Allegedly, Tammi put Nicki up to getting pregnant and not naming the father." I'm wondering if Tammi knew EJ long before the airport...could it be that Tammi also put EJ up to getting pregnant and not listing Logan as the father? Maybe that was the plan all along but Logan found out she was pregnant and didn't agree to the adoption. Of course when everything fell through with EJ and Gabriel she simply went back to Jack's daughter and had her produce yet another baby for her. Is it a coincidence that baby "S" was born just 9 months after Gabriel disappeared?:waitasec:

 

[saba]

Hmm... the video has been removed. Maybe the house was sold. Or maybe the realtor was put on the poo-poo-will-sue list.

 

[kissdegirl]

Hmm... the video has been removed. Maybe the house was sold. Or maybe the realtor was put on the poo-poo-will-sue list.

My money is on the latter. They don't live there anymore, so what's the problem?

 

[wenwe4]

Hmm... the video has been removed. Maybe the house was sold. Or maybe the realtor was put on the poo-poo-will-sue list.

Hmmm . . . wondering if TPS and JS are reading here? This video has been up for how many months (years) and now it goes poof? Methinks the timing is just a bit suspect. If in fact they are lurking here I just have one picture for TPS . . . .:jail:

 

[artsy1]

I hope the mods don't delete these, because they have to do with previous posts I've made. Admittedly, this starts a little preachy, but then that part is over with. It's long, so I am posting it in segments. So here goes:

Despite what I've heard has been said, I do not have a vendetta against Tammi Smith. I don't know what people on FB have been saying about her, because I don't have a FB account, and have never posted there. But if you want to judge me, all I can be judged on is what I've posted on WS. Yes, I've heard from others what has been said over the past 2 and 1/2 years on FB as to my alleged identity, but the claim is 100% false!

Having said that, I suggest that everyone, including Tammi Smith, think twice about what these people are claiming as fact. The FACT that they are dead WRONG about my identity should cause them to examine where these people get their "facts" before accepting them at face value. The Lord himself through Moses, instructed us to not "bear false witness against thy neighbor". Do these so-called "Christians" need a refresher course on the 10 Commandments?

Christianity has been bantered about throughout this case like a basketball. I'm so tired of hearing "God is on MY side" or "God is on OUR side". Joshua 5:13-15 paraphrased says that in the midst of battle, God sent an angel to Joshua, who asked the angel "are you on my side or mine enemy's?" to which the angel replied "neither - I am on God's side". God does not take sides, it is up to us to choose His side. As "Christians", you all should know that. And claiming that actions were taken in the name of God does not absolve anyone of legal responsibilities. Even a schizophrenic may believe that God is commanding him to commit certain acts, but that is not a legal defense to what he has done. And yes, I am a Christian, who admits my failings at not always acting or saying things that are appropriate. But I also pray for His forgiveness - and that is done in private, between Him and me, not plastered all over the internet, expecting pats on the back. And I will admit that I may have taken some of my posts here on WS too far by making fun of certain individuals. For that, I am truly sorry. Call it a lapse of judgement, or mob mentality, or whatever you choose. However you slice it, I take personal responsibility for what I've said - but have no responsibility for what strangers have said on FB. I don't post there, and have a clean conscience, with THE TRUTH on my side.

At this point I would like to explain the reason behind some of my WS posts, starting with the more recent - my response to another WSer's post about CPS being called. I have never called, never will, nor instructed anyone to call CPS on the Smiths. Tammi herself testified on the stand that the CPS worker who went to see EJ was "mean" to her, and told her to butt out of the custody issue between EJ and Logan. But instead of heeding her instructions, within a few hours, Tammi was at the courthouse with EJ, filling out EJ's forms and putting false information on the form filed with the court. The fact that Tammi didn't stay out of it, IMHO, would cause the CPS worker to start her own investigations of Tammi to see what kind of person she is. I don't know if that happened or not, but it wouldn't surprise me if it doesn't happen. And if that's the case, then the only person responsible for the investigation would be Tammi herself, because of what she did contrary to the CPS worker in Dec 2009, and how she testified about it in May 2012.

The posting of the house video was for a specific purpose. I know that many of us were so tired of hearing about the Big, Beautiful House that was lost because of Logan and this case. First, what did Logan ever do to Tammi Smith? He didn't file any charges against her (that was all the prosecution & Tempe PD) and hasn't filed any lawsuits against her. So how was this case HIS fault, simply because all he wanted was custody of his own son? Recently I had been told that the realtor's video of the BBH was on YouTube. I saw it, and posted the link here, so that everyone could see for themselves what the BBH looked like, and draw their own conclusions as to why the Smiths walked away from it. And, I do admit, I was surprised that 2 small children were living in that house, in that condition. But that's the extent of the reason for the video link.


(continued to part 2)

 

[artsy1]

As far as my comments about Stones of Grace, well, based on the way the whole situation with EJ and Gabriel was handled, I personally would be very concerned to see the Smiths run an organization that is supposed to "help" single mothers. I would suggest to Tammi that she get some education about how to deal with single mothers, the needs of single mothers and their children, their legal issues, etc. I'll play devil's advocate here for a minute by giving Tammi the benefit of the doubt that she really does want to help people. But she lacks the education and training to do such a thing on such a large scale. The fact that both of the Smiths testified that they had both felt EJ and Gabriel were in trouble, but never thought about calling CPS so that EJ and Gabriel could have the professional and legal help they needed, worries me that they aren't prepared to see "warning signs" in other single mothers. The fact that Tammi didn't see EJ's emotional problems, and took everything she said as gospel without further investigation throws up red flags. Yes, Logan knew she had issues, and tried to get Gabriel away from EJ, only to have EJ call LE and accuse Logan of kidnapping. And the last time that happened, even though Logan had been given JOINT legal custody, he didn't even have Gabriel - the Smiths did.

As we know now, Logan wasn't even home the day that EJ was arrested for trashing his apartment. Yet Tammi believed, hook, line and sinker, EJ's story that they were fighting, a window got broken, and Logan had EJ arrested for it. It was the landlord who had EJ arrested, and also won a judgement against EJ for almost $3,400 in damages! If Tammi had just done a little homework, she would have found the truth, and that EJ had serious problems! Even now, there are STILL people who believe EJ's version of that night, even though all the facts are out there for anyone to see for themselves.

Which brings me to criminal history. Even at trial, after testifying that she didn't know how to read the court records, Tammi still insisted that Logan was arrested for crimes he was never charged with (like armed robbery). Logan had explanations for the charges that were pressed against him, but still accepted personal responsibility for his involvement, and plead guilty. The fact he was granted work furlow says volumes about how little the court believed his participation was. Yet even though Logan took responsibility and paid his debt to society, there are still people, including Tammi, who continue to throw his record out there, right and left, unprovoked. As yes, Tammi, you DID keep bringing it up on Nancy Grace without being asked about it. Yet we are supposed to all ignore the fact that Tammi has a criminal record herself in Louisiana. Only she never accepted personal responsibility - it was all someone else's fault for all the charges. So both Tammi and Logan have criminal records, but somehow Tammi's doesn't count and makes her a better "parent" for Gabriel than his own flesh and blood?

And as far as the people who still insist that Gabriel would have gone into foster care if not given to EJ or Logan, have any of them ever considered the fact that Gabriel has extended family on both sides who love him and would have taken him, so he would still be with family? Even EJ's grandmother said she would have raised Gabriel herself, if Logan & EJ didn't want to or couldn't raise him. So why, in their eyes, should a stranger be given priority over his own family?


(continued in conclusion - part 3)

 

[artsy1]

You know what I would love to hear from Tammi? I would love to hear her tell the court, FROM THE HEART, "I'm sorry, I was wrong. I overstepped my bounds and got involved in the middle of a custody case where I didn't belong. I tried to take control of the situation instead of just being moral support and letting EJ and Logan work it out in court for themselves." And she can claim that she had good intentions and was acting from a "Christian" place all she wants, as long as she accepts personal responsibility for her own actions. Because so far: it's Logan's fault she got involved in the first place, because allegedly he's a "bad" person who was threatening EJ; it's EJ's fault that they ended up at the courthouse, because EJ said they were going to the law library (even though Tammi should have known the procedure, having been in a custody fight herself); it was Gabriel's fault that Tammi didn't remember filling out the court papers, because he was fussing and needed changing; it was the drinking, oh wait, no, it was EJ's fault that Tammi put her cousin's name on the court documents; it was Logan's fault that EJ ran away because he was again allegedly threatening her, even though EJ told LE that she ran away to get away from pressure from Tammi; it was Logan's fault that EJ left San Antonio, again because he was allegedly threatening her, even though phone records PROVED that he never even spoke to EJ until she told him she killed Gabriel; it was Detective Ramirez's fault that Tammi got arrested, because she was looking for a scapegoat to pay for Gabriel's disappearance (even though EJ is still sitting in jail to pay for that); it was Logan's fault that charges were even filed, as evidenced by Tammi's public threats against Logan on television the night she bonded out of jail; it was Ms. Andrew's fault she was convicted at trial because of "character assassination"; it was the Judge's fault she was convicted, because he allowed the "character assassination"; .... Whew, did I leave anyone out? So where does Tammi's personal responsibility for her actions come into play? The reasons why Tammi did what she did come into play as mitigating circumstances in sentencing - not in the jury's verdict.

And I still hear rumors about waiting for the "truth to come out". Well, if there was another truth, it should have come out in trial, on the witness stand. What is everyone waiting for to "tell the truth"? At least I back up my claims on WS with links. Logan's criminal past, EJ's WIC, Gabriel's birth certificate, etc. aren't proof of any "truth" - other than the truth that these people existed, and had a child. And any supposed paternity of Gabriel other than Logan is nothing more than rumor. If there was "proof and truth" to the contrary, it should have been presented a long time ago. We all know EJ has mental issues and a problem with lying, especially when she is mad - so why was a claim about Gabriel's paternity made when she was angry at Logan suddenly "the truth"? And since EJ didn't object to the judge granting Logan legal paternity, any further paternity issues are moot! And they do absolutely NOTHING to prove what really happened to a child named Gabriel Scott Johnson.

So there, that's what's been in my heart behind what I've posted. No, Satan didn't have ahold of me - I was just trying to bring out THE TRUTH. But there were times I went beyond the truth into making fun of Tammi's situation. And so, to Tammi Smith personally, I apologize for times I've made fun of your situation. I was wrong, and it was not a Christian thing to do, so I apologize for that.

 

[OneLove]

You make so many excellent observations about the actions and character of TS, Artsy, and very well written, too.

One branch of my family has a saying: "You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear".

Don't hold your breath waiting for a lightening bolt from heaven to open the eyes and heart of Tammi Smith. She already knows she's RIGHTEOUS in her actions and she 'only wanted to help', regardless of the world at large, law enforcement, a jury, a judge, and the laws of the land saying she is wrong. And not just wrong, but CRIMINAL, to the degree of causing great harm. But she has not acknowledged that; probably never will.

In juvenile justice there is a very accurate indicator of whether a first time offender is likely to go on to live a law abiding life or spend life inside the walls of prisons. Basically, the key is whether the offender can reach an understanding of their actions being WRONG, causing harm to others, and feel remorse.

Tammi's own comments show no remorse and claim her own actions to be righteous. Lost cause. Walk away and forget it. There just IS no soul there capable of empathy, IMO, and in the opinion of much of the world. She is only capable of knowing what SHE wants and feeling anger when she doesn't GET what she wants, to the degree of calling anyone in her way EVIL. She is unlikely to ever change and I consider her among the most dangerous of people walking the face of the earth, narcissistically impaired. Garnering a very small group of narrowminded and impaired 'supporters' is, pathetically, all it takes to confirm in her miniscule mind that she is both persecuted by EVIL and saintly in her actions. IMO

It is my belief that Stones of Grace is simply her knee-jerk way of strengthening her own oppositional-inner-child that brought not one, but THREE children into this world yet DID NOT choose responsible mothering behaviors herself. By golly, by gum, she will lay down the law and MAKE future young mothers do what she refused to do three times over. And even though she would not follow HER doctors' advice to help her achieve parental responsibility and keep her OWN children, she now wants to be a COUNSELOR???to other young mothers so she can tell THEM how it's done???? All while she continues to oppositionally defy the findings of the court and law of the land.

Biggest bunch of bullchit I've ever seen in my life.

And that goes for her claim that she NEVER reads WS. Ha HAH. That is Tammi to a T: constantly railing against WS at the same time she claims to never read what WS says. Her tiny brain cannot even see the hypocrisy in THAT.

This is all my opinion only. My advice to those of us who have been agonized by this case is to always remember Gabriel and Logan with love and hope, but give up any idea that TS will EVER evolve into a human being.