ARRESTED- Luka Rocco Magnotta:1st deg murder charge #8

[thedissent]

I think that in all likelihood it's a combination of both nature and nurture. I know that in my case life events are at the root of the illness. That said, it is also possible that someone else would not have reacted in the same way as I did to the same life events. Which would be where nature came in.

I agree too that if LM was abused by older men, that could have played a role. It was in the video link I posted earlier where there were interviews with a forensic psychologist and LM's ex (the transexual writer). The latter mentioned that he kept on sleeping with older men (altho for money), kind of replicating it.

I suspect both genetic and environmental play a role in psychopathy.

That is, people are genetically predisposed to psychopathy, but it must be triggered by certain environmental / "nurture" factors. Moreover, the predisposition would be recessive.

There has been a lot of interesting work by evolutionary psychologists, who have explored how such a genetic predisposition may have survived with the broader human gene pool.

Psychopaths are rule breakers and cheaters, and they often derive success and excitement from pushing the boundaries on social conventions or breaking laws; they also are sexually promiscuous. So long as psychopaths remain a minority-- hence it is a recessive trait-- rule breaking can have certain survival benefits within a community. Also, sexual promiscuity means that their genes are spread more widely.

Psychopathy would not survive as a dominant trait, however, as the larger population would respond to pervasive rule breaking by targeting psychopaths. Arguably, our laws and institutions today-- which root out "dangerous offenders"-- target psychopaths. If there is indeed a genetic pre-disposition, over time, we may thus see fewer and fewer psychopaths.

 

[livingstone]

Shelby1 & Jeanne

Thank you for the info.

I for one would be very interested in watching this trial. It would be one of the most fascinating trials to date.

Would like to hear the expert testimonies, from the Medical Examiner to the Psychologists/Psychiatrists, to the LE people, etc.

Never did find the video clip where the Criminologist said the Lin video went on for over an hour. Therefore, it did not happen. I mean it did because I saw it, but, if I cannot prove what I am saying to you with video evidence....then.....didn't happen.

 

[Shelby1]

And Millian :couch:

:hand:



:snooty:

 

[jeanne]

What???? You think Jose Baez did some grandstanding????




:floorlaugh:



IMO, all courts should be open, but we can agree to disagree

*chuckling* no!! NEVER!!! Not him or Johnnie Cochran!!! *Damn tongue is getting sore being tucked in my cheek like this*

 

[thedissent]

They require you to register to access more pages, links, etc... BUT I can see their freakin copy & paste job of YOUR posts, Wangtangkiki, thedissent and mine...

Yeah, I just see our posts are on several other sites.

They took my timeline and just basically cut and pasted the entire thing. :what:

 

[livingstone]

Actually, I think live cameras in the courtroom open up the possibility of the lawyers grandstanding, the defendant grandstanding and all parties playing to the media rather to the Judge and Jury. I think the system is fine the way it is.

That can prove true.

However, like anything else there is good and bad aspects to televising such an event.

I do not see it as so black or white. Seems a grey area for me.

There are people who like myself are in a field wherein this trial would greatly assist our knowledge base. Then again, the cameras do tend to open up the possibility for grandstanding, etc. Depends upon the Attorneys and presiding Judge. IMO, there are Attorneys who care only about the case and damn the cameras. Then there are others who play to them. Just depends.

 

[LadyL]

wouldn't the defense apply for a change of venue? I know this case has outraged all Canadians (& people worldwide) but I would think the jury pool in Montreal would be more 'tainted' from a defense perspective

and on that note, the poor jury will likely be permanently psychologically scarred ... I know I would be

 

[james62]

I suspect both genetic and environmental play a role in psychopathy.

That is, people are genetically predisposed to psychopathy, but it must be triggered by certain environmental / "nurture" factors. Moreover, the predisposition would be recessive.

There has been a lot of interesting work by evolutionary psychologists, who have explored how such a genetic predisposition may have survived with the broader human gene pool.

Psychopaths are rule breakers and cheaters, and they often derive success and excitement from pushing the boundaries on social conventions or breaking laws; they also are sexually promiscuous. So long as psychopaths remain a minority-- hence it is a recessive trait-- rule breaking can have certain survival benefits within a community. Also, sexual promiscuity means that their genes are spread more widely.

Psychopathy would not survive as a dominant trait, however, as the larger population would respond to pervasive rule breaking by targeting psychopaths. Arguably, our laws and institutions today-- which root out "dangerous offenders"-- target psychopaths. If there is indeed a genetic pre-disposition, over time, we may thus see fewer and fewer psychopaths.

I'm sure the following has been posted before but not sure where. it's a piece exploring psychopathy and what causes it in the individual concerned. Some studies have suggested it is the result of the structure of that person's brain, but others disagree and say that while that may be the case it is by no means the full picture.

I found this part particularly interesting, especially in the case of LM, if it is indeed shown to be true that he was routinely abused as a child:

'Biology can be a part of it, he says, but it's the social side, "the social influences, the nurturing influences that, in my view, dominate."

For example, abuse in childhood is common among those with psychopathic traits — abuse so relentless, "he has to anesthetize himself against it," says Leyton.

"And in the process of anesthetizing himself, he also loses any touch of his own humanity."

According to Farley, scholars have argued that psychopaths feel deeply about nothing.

But if most of murderous behaviour was biologically based, the worst offenders would be more alike than they are, he says.'

It also says, interestingly that according to Dr Robert Hare of the University of British Columbia 'psychopaths comprise perhaps one per cent of the Canadian population.'

http://www.canada.com/news/mind+psychopath+Scientists+explore+brain+abnormalities/6754391/story.html It's well worth reading the whole article.

 

[jeanne]

wouldn't the defense apply for a change of venue? I know this case has outraged all Canadians (& people worldwide) but I would think the jury pool in Montreal would be more 'tainted' from a defense perspective

and on that note, the poor jury will likely be permanently psychologically scarred ... I know I would be

While I admit my curiostiy is peaked by this case, and I would love to watch the trial, I am more interested to see that justice be served and that nothing go wrong and a mistrial called. So I am all for a closed courtroom and a changed venue if that is what it takes to make sure he is convicted and it STICKS.

 

[LadyL]

What???? You think Jose Baez did some grandstanding????




:floorlaugh:



IMO, all courts should be open, but we can agree to disagree

[bbm]

they're open, as in anyone can attend - just not televised

 

[pippirose]

Stony Mountain in Manitoba is medium, but they're going to build a max unit in 2014 I think. Kent in BC is maximum iirc.

There's also Millhaven, in Ontario. It's a maximum security.

 

[livingstone]

See, this Magnotta character IMO is quite unique. Not many opportunities come along to study such a case as this.

This is what people who live to study such things dream about.

Not because we want tragedy, but, because there is a desire to learn from this and prevent potential future tragedies.

And, this is a new age involving electronic media. As you know, most are still playing catch up. (Including LE)

We have to take these tragic events and turn them into opportunities. Lin is dead and he is not coming back. Therefore, the only positive choice is to turn this tragedy into multiple opportunities. This is how one can honor victims of crime, and prevent future crime, IMO. I have seen it and you have too. Parents with murdered children who get laws passed, etc. to prevent or make it harder for future criminals to take others children, etc.

That said.....it is a fine line between censorship and loss of freedoms, and laws that actually benefit us. A very fine line.

 

[~n/t~]

wouldn't the defense apply for a change of venue? I know this case has outraged all Canadians (& people worldwide) but I would think the jury pool in Montreal would be more 'tainted' from a defense perspective

and on that note, the poor jury will likely be permanently psychologically scarred ... I know I would be

They probably will but I don't see a problem with getting 12 jurors who haven't followed this case like we do on this forum. People know he's accused of murdering and dismembering the victim but not the details we discuss here.

 

[LadyL]

While I admit my curiostiy is peaked by this case, and I would love to watch the trial, I am more interested to see that justice be served and that nothing go wrong and a mistrial called. So I am all for a closed courtroom and a changed venue if that is what it takes to make sure he is convicted and it STICKS.

you have closed courtrooms there?

 

[livingstone]

While I admit my curiostiy is peaked by this case, and I would love to watch the trial, I am more interested to see that justice be served and that nothing go wrong and a mistrial called. So I am all for a closed courtroom and a changed venue if that is what it takes to make sure he is convicted and it STICKS.

Do you believe that people who can use the information from the trial, and who work in LE in a professional capacity should be prevented from viewing this trial?

 

[Sealuzna]

you have closed courtrooms there?

They're open by default, closed at judge's discretion.

 

[james62]

See, this Magnotta character IMO is quite unique. Not many opportunities come along to study such a case as this.

This is what people who live to study such things dream about.

Not because we want tragedy, but, because there is a desire to learn from this and prevent potential future tragedies.

And, this is a new age involving electronic media. As you know, most are still playing catch up. (Including LE)

We have to take these tragic events and turn them into opportunities. Lin is dead and he is not coming back. Therefore, the only positive choice is to turn this tragedy into multiple opportunities. This is how one can honor victims of crime, and prevent future crime, IMO. I have seen it and you have too. Parents with murdered children who get laws passed, etc. to prevent or make it harder for future criminals to take others children, etc.

That said.....it is a fine line between censorship and loss of freedoms, and laws that actually benefit us. A very fine line.

My thoughts exactly livingstone. An excellent post, thank you.

 

[prima.facie]

Just another example of the bizarre interconnections or coincidences about this case and lm's on-line presence.

On July 26, 2009, 48 Hours Mystery aired a show called The Man Who Knew To Much. It was about a journalist killed while investigating corruption in Tolyotti, Russia. The journalist "was stabbed to death with something resembling an ice pick."

LM apparently posted about "his friend" going to Tolyatti and becoming involved with the mob there under the name russian2009, as I'm pretty sure has been linked and post about here before.

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-18559_162-691763.html?pageNum=9

lol
i told yall that was a rough city from my own personal experience of being there and his continued connection in various ways to that city says a lot IMO...Moscow is trendy, Tolyatti is not and is dark, dirty and it is filled w/ corruption on various levels, IMO...i know it is not a popular theory but the theory of him making this vid (and maybe others) for money and selling it to people there is not off the table IMO....


.....this will fall way out of place, playing catch up.....

 

[DD_bwest]

Stony Mountain in Manitoba is medium, but they're going to build a max unit in 2014 I think. Kent in BC is maximum iirc.

still catching up, but yea Kent, BC has a medium/maximum security prison, I believe thats where we are keeping Willie(probably on of the few serial killed LM didnt like)

 

[livingstone]

My thoughts exactly livingstone.

So true, huh james?

Find it absolutely fascinating how this Magnotta worked the internet. Have already learned more about the "deep web," how social media works, and the absolute MAZE of a trail it is possible to leave on the internet.

Admittedly it is overwhelming, intimidating, and frustrating to say the least.

Prior to the internet a person could reinvent themselves using the mind, live out their fantasies in private, and had to often seek victims outside the home, (physically leaving the home) but for the most part was isolated. These days a criminal can adopt a whole other persona that is not only using the mind but can be applied and acted out with multiple other human beings on the internet. And, potential victims are 1 click away.

Insane huh?