NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#29

[UnfoldingTruth]

He adopted the pseudonym after Allison disappeared, when did he tell TM that B.O would be his pseudonym I wonder.


IMO
JMO
MOO

he didn't adopt it after Allison went missing.. he used to email her from a fake email address, before Allison was killed .

 

[Rational]

Re GBC & TM

IMO - the issue of who is the guilty one in this is a non-issue. "Love" is often used as an excuse or euphenism for bad behaviour - greed, infidelity, dependency, revenge etc etc

Is TM one of those women who think that her married lover will leave his wife and children, mary her, and live happily ever after?

From GBC's perspective he was presumably getting regular sex, money and ego-stroking whilst having a facade of a lovely wife and family to round of his public profile.

TM would have been getting the regular sex and maybe the ego stroking. She also felt that she would achieve her goal of having her rich high-pofile man as her own to live happily blah blah .........

TM's goal just happened to require GBC's family unit be split asunder, inflicting incredible pain on its members - particularly Allison. I don't think that TM expected or wanted Allison to be murdered, but it appears that her death was collateral damage from their affair.

Allison appeared determined to mend her broken marriage. There is no way TM could have achieved her goal without Allison being hurt in some way.

I put my head on the block here and say that IMOO that TM lend GBC the money because she thought that this would be a real link that would tie him to her. She was in love, he was using her (as narcissists always use anyone in their vicinity for whatever ends they have in mind, people are only an ends to their means, never a destiny in themselves) and she fell for it 'hook, line and sinker. She would have followed him to the end of the earth, but unfortunately that cannot happen in prison, so she rolled over.

All IMOO

 

[Opinionsgalore]

he didn't adopt it after Allison went missing.. he used to email her from a fake email address, before Allison was killed .

What a knob he was !!!
Why go to the bother ? Who did he think was going to read TM's email ?


IMO
JMO
MOO

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

From Brisbane Times 26/06/2012
Quote: "Police allege that Mr Baden-Clay used the pseudonym ‘‘Bruce Overland’’ in emails to Ms McHugh after his wife’s disappearance."

Lol, paper could of gotten it wrong - nothing would surprise me !




IMO
JMO
MOO

Oh.. I still believe that was his pseudonym from before, that he used to contact TM.. will have to find a link though.

Link found..http://brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/badenclay-was-in-dire-financial-position-police-allege-20120626-2102n.htmlInvestigators contend that the pseudonym was used by the pair and submitted an email from April 3, 2012 at 5.40pm where Mr Baden-Clay, allegedly as Bruce Overland, wrote: "I have given you a commitment and I intend to stick to it. I will be separated by July 1" and went on to "state his love" for Ms McHugh.

April 3rd.. Allison was reported missing on the 20th of April..so he was using the Bruce Almighty.. I mean Bruce Overlander name before Allison went missing.

 

[Hawkins]

Can anyone share their reasoning as to the suggestion that investigators have not established a likely cause of death in this case? If that has been reported in the press, has any support for that suggestion been put forward by reporters? It seems highly unlikely to me that there is not sufficient evidence to determine the likely cause of death.

 

[CaseClosed]

Not convinced entirely CaseClosed, that TM would not have been aware of GBC's intentions. (I have agreed with all your posts 100% since thread 1, because you maintain a balanced and objective approach, and I still will). However, IMO, her level of perception would've alluded her to Allison's death as being a likely outcome. IMO,TM would've had knowledge of his debts, and if ABC was still alive (on July1, say) TM existence with GBC in a relationship would've been fraught with even more debts, post separation/divorce. Not the type of 'happily ever after' fantasy that either would've had in mind.

Thanks! IMO, if someone is a farce like GBC, they don't disclose their financial messes. I think GBC kept this to himself and painted the picture to TM that he would loose too much by divorcing ABC. I may be wrong, but I truly believe TM did not have any suspicion that ABC would end up dead. I'm also not convinced that TM lent him any substantial amounts of money. But, I do believe TM may have realised, once ABC went missing, that he may have killed her, hence decided to co-operate with police. I guess we will know more once the Committal Hearing starts, but my gut feeling is that TM is only guilty of having an affair. IMO.

 

[CaseClosed]

Can anyone share their reasoning as to the suggestion that investigators have not established a likely cause of death in this case? If that has been reported in the press, has any support for that suggestion been put forward by reporters? It seems highly unlikely to me that there is not sufficient evidence to determine the likely cause of death.

Nothing in the press, that I'm aware off. My thinking is that she may have been suffocated, which after 11 days of decomposition, would have been IMO impossible to determine.

 

[LauraMars]

Oh here's a bit about Bruce...

"Investigators contend that the pseudonym was used by the pair and submitted an email from April 3, 2012 at 5.40pm where Mr Baden-Clay, allegedly as Bruce Overland, wrote: "I have given you a commitment and I intend to stick to it. I will be separated by July 1" and went on to "state his love" for Ms McHugh.

Police investigations allegedly found Mr Baden-Clay had "extra-marital affairs with at least three women" since 2008."

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...lice-allege-20120626-2102n.html#ixzz1z5APuJ33

 

[HeartRuledHead]

HeartRuledHead , given that you say you are close to TM , are you able to enlighten us as to your perspective on the type of person TM is, what sort of person is going to be presented in court as crown witness?

I want to start by saying that I have not discussed this with her and the following is only based on my opinion of who she is as a person.

I think that Toni could easily put herself in Allison's shoes and her empathy for Allison will ensure that her guard is down and be completely candid and honest. I believe she will be considerate of the feelings of Allison's family.

I truly believe that every step forward from here will be in effort to set an example for her children. She will do what ever is necessary to help convict ABC's killer.





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[Opinionsgalore]

What a knob he was !!!
Why go to the bother ? Who did he think was going to read TM's email ?


IMO
JMO
MOO

And then the lightbulb pinged over my head.
Intent ? Was GBC already preparing for the day when QPS would want to look at TM's emails ?
Was he hoping that TM would say that GBC & B.O were 2 different people ?



IMO
JMO
MOO

 

[CaseClosed]

If I recall correctly in the report which outed TM as being the mistress, GBC's colleagues were quite shocked to hear that he could be involved in the murder of Allison...they held him in high regard & mentioned something about his integrity & honesty...had him on a moral pedestal.

Even though majority of us on here had him pegged as the killer, I don't think anyone could have predicted the extent of all that came out in the bail hearing. It was surprise after surprise....going by that it will be no surprise to me at all if TM is involved in some way as well. I bet plenty of people held her in just as high regard as GBC too.

Also, I'm not sure why it's still being classed as just an "affair" as to me it seems it was more than that, going by the length of time they'd kept the relationship going. They seemed more like an established couple when, also from that outing report, it stated they were seen together at events, at dinners together & it wasn't a well kept secret.....all this was happening behind Allison's back.

I think it's classed as an "affair" because he was still with his wife, i.e. not separated and with TM on a permanent basis.

As to her being involved in this crime, my gut feeling says no, but like you say, I could be surprised. The fact that TM has seemingly cooperated with police also indicates IMO that she was not trying to cover up anything. She wanted to be upfront. It took her quite a while to lawyer up and if she was in any way involved, IMO she would have kept her mouth shut and lawyered-up from the first interview with police.

 

[Rational]

Can anyone share their reasoning as to the suggestion that investigators have not established a likely cause of death in this case? If that has been reported in the press, has any support for that suggestion been put forward by reporters? It seems highly unlikely to me that there is not sufficient evidence to determine the likely cause of death.

IMO bacause the cause of death could very well be something that will be critical to the Crown's case, as it could tie the alleged murderer to the victim and alleged crime scene in no uncertain terms. For example, if it is a broken neck, it would be clear if there is a lack of haemorrhaging this could mean that the broken neck occurred post death, if there is , it could proven to be that this happened at home and not he effect of a dump of the bridge. If as has been alleged that there are no VISIBLE signs if trauma there are INVISIBLE signs if trauma. For instance, strangulation or obstruction of breathing, or poisoning or injection of certain substances. All these would leave no visible signs and it is probably in the interest of the Crown not to put forward any theories until they have to. This could be at the committal hearing if they have nothing else, or at the trial itself if he does not plead guilty in the interim. Why reveal the trump card (if indeed you have one) until the final slam???

 

[Elspeth]

Perhaps you are right and that is why one of her questions asked who was paying for the hotel?

Assumption only.


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I believe because of their financial situation this is why she would have asked this question. Also I believe financial stress was far more behind this terrible tragedy than the affair.

IMO when Allsion found out about the affair she would have been of course hurt/humiliated and said to him remove TM from the office which he did and that surprises me because if Allison was completely suppressed by him I do not believe he would have removed TM, so he must have had some respect for Allison or he simply would not have cared at all.

Also the photo of Allison at the C21 conference. She looks wonderful and this was after she found out about the affair. So I feel instead of going to the pack and feeling sorry for herself about the affair, she has excelled instead in her grooming and looked great and hence regained her confidence in many ways even though she would have still been hurting on the inside she was not showing it on the outside. I feel he would have been more scared of her leaving him than the other way around. I also feel Allison would have wanted to keep the family together because of the girls. Didn't her sister say at the funeral how Allison was always a devoted wife and mother to the end of her life.

In a couple of photos it shows one of the girls clinging to her father and also another poster mentioned how the eldest girl was sitting on his lap at the show. If there was DV in this house and the girls knew their Mother was missing under strange circumstances...would they have been so close to the father if they thought he had mistreated their Mother or ever seen DV in the home. I simply do not know and even though everything points to GBC there are definitely many things which simply do not ring true for me only that it is a terrible tragedy. Also I feel if he intended to make a new life with TM and was that much in love with her, he would have left a long time ago and certainly would not have been concerned about the cost of a divorce etc..I do think he would have borrowed money from TM imo..

I know many will not agree with the above, but they are just questions in my mind that I don't have answers for...

 

[Berry]

My opinion about this, for what it's worth, and I do know the family well, is that EBC is terrified about losing Nigel as well. She is, even at her age, besotted with her husband, hence the kiss in the garage (that wasn't for the cameras - that is her genuine 'Gone With The Wind' approach to her husband).

She knows her son will now pay for his sins, and maybe part of her thinks he rightly should, but her approach to Nigel's (alleged) sin would be entirely different: he did it for the blind love of his children, in the dead of a short night when there was no opportunity to think it through, not with a panicked son demanding help and NOW. I think she is a woman in a lot of emotional pain, about to lose everything, including the man she adores more than anything, endured jungles and moved countries for. She would not want to go to prison and see where NBC may soon join his son. My opinion only.

NOW THIS is interesting......should Radster KNOW this, then perhaps Crimestoppers should be rung???? to use this person as a witness???????

 

[Hawkins]

:fence:

Nothing in the press, that I'm aware off. My thinking is that she may have been suffocated, which after 11 days of decomposition, would have been IMO impossible to determine.

Medical evidence is only part of the mix when determining cause of death for the purpose of coronial inquests and criminal proceedings. Other forensic and circumstantial evidence can be very compelling to the point of virtual certainty. Harold Holt's body was never found, but he drowned nevertheless. A clear and evidence based cause of death will be asserted in this case.

 

[BJsleuth]

Nothing in the press, that I'm aware off. My thinking is that she may have been suffocated, which after 11 days of decomposition, would have been IMO impossible to determine.

If they'd found a pillow near where she was found for example, possibly from the home, that could explain the COD in the absence of autopsy conclusions. Just supposing. We know they found personal items in the creek but we don't know what.

 

[Sheerluck Holmes]

Did someone mention there was a support page for GBC on Facebook before

 

[Lurker on Websleuths]

Is anybody with a legal mind able to shed more light on legal immunity ? It is just that my understanding of it is that it is something that I would have thought is rarely offered and would only be offered in limited situations. I would think that the DPP would want to be quite certain that the person that they are offering it to has no direct involvement in a crime such as this. It may be that TM indicated a willingness to help police with their enquiries and involved a lawyer early in the piece to broker such a deal whereby she could answer questions and be without fear of self-incrimination. I would have thought that if the police were sure that she had involvement in a crime such as this, she would be unsuitable as a witness, 'tainted' , and they would be more likely to charge her.

 

[Hawkins]

Where was this claim that there were no visible signs of trauma found made and who were the reporters quoting? Was it referred to in any of the affidavit material at the bail hearing? Apart from the assertions of defense counsel in relation to a chipped tooth did any of the court material published mention the tooth?

 

[annie46664]

I put my head on the block here and say that IMOO that TM lend GBC the money because she thought that this would be a real link that would tie him to her. She was in love, he was using her (as narcissists always use anyone in their vicinity for whatever ends they have in mind, people are only an ends to their means, never a destiny in themselves) and she fell for it 'hook, line and sinker. She would have followed him to the end of the earth, but unfortunately that cannot happen in prison, so she rolled over.

All IMOO

OOOOOO you are, IMO, SO, SO RIGHT!
However, I have greatest, utmost difficulty believing NOW (unlike I did before she revealed what she did to the QPS), that she had ANY notion of ANY suspected murder. NEVER!
Yet, POSSIBLY, only a HUGE GUESS though, that IF BY ANY CHANCE, AFTERWARDS, GBC admitted WHATEVER course of events lead to Allison's eventual death (not that such a <modsnip> would normally divulge everything ~ i.e. HONEST circumstances & BOTH sides of the story to anyone, anytime!)
TM has EVERYTHING to gain through absolute co-operation, and ABSOLUTELY nothing to lose doing so ... although, HUGE CORRECTION, she has the WORST THING that she stupidly entertained in her life, to HOPEFULLY LOSE for good ... but the NIGHTMARES as a direct result of her VERY OWN involvement & cause for MUCH PAIN & anguish to Allison, cannot & shall NEVER be erased during this particular life time of hers.
SORRY TM ~ you made your own bed girl, now sleep with the devils that share it.