NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#30

[Fuskier]

Morning everyone.....I hope your all sitting down .I have something too share with you .
I'll try and be brief.
Long story,cutshort.Iv'e relocated to the northern rivers area,and my partner,has a FIFO,in central QLD.
I've been checking out shuttle buses etc, to no avail,then thought car pooling!
Typed in Lismore to Brisbane and a site came up Pick -up a pal.
Typed in Brisbane,pressed search,then went too search site.
Clicked in box under search and my heart dropped .
The first name that came up, was Allison Baden Clay.I thought I was losing my mind ,I'm not joking..So I checked again.
Who on earth would register that?Obviously someone that has no feelings or morals or a heart.I'm wondering if I can find out who did this .
I am going to e-mail Pick up a Pal,and give them a piece of my mind.I am going to wait an hour or before doing so.Going check out this site a little more.
Someone please tell me ,am I seeing things
I think everyone on this Thread should do so as well.

It would be wise to notify QPolice about this. It needs to be forensically examined, not left up to the imagination or to be used as psuedo evidence in a case to create reasonable doubt etc. If you want justice for Allison Baden-Clay, then this piece of info needs to go the QPolice.

 

[Mani]

To Keentoknow, Blacklodge and other members who have placed flowers at the bridge recently -

I drove over the bridge yesterday and the flowers looked really beautiful.

 

[Carolyninoz]

I am just introducing myself and thank you for allowing me to join. I live in the Blue Mountains of NSW and have been following this case from the beginning. We lived in the hinterland of SE Queensland before moving here 2 years ago.
I wanted to see what opinions others have re GBC as to whether anyone thinks he may change his pleay to 'guilty' or will he fight to the end claiming innocence. I see it that even if he is guilty (I personally believe he is) that he would still hold out for a not guilty verdict to get his hands on Allison's insurance money. What has he got to lose except time spent in gaol which is going to happen anyway with the delay for a hearing being around 3 years I believe. I really did think that there would have been at least one more arrest by now - still waiting:waitasec:
Please excuse any spelling errors as I am legally blind in one eye and cannot read a dictionary
Carolyninoz

 

[kalamityk]

I am just introducing myself and thank you for allowing me to join. I live in the Blue Mountains of NSW and have been following this case from the beginning. We lived in the hinterland of SE Queensland before moving here 2 years ago.
I wanted to see what opinions others have re GBC as to whether anyone thinks he may change his pleay to 'guilty' or will he fight to the end claiming innocence. I see it that even if he is guilty (I personally believe he is) that he would still hold out for a not guilty verdict to get his hands on Allison's insurance money. What has he got to lose except time spent in gaol which is going to happen anyway with the delay for a hearing being around 3 years I believe. I really did think that there would have been at least one more arrest by now - still waiting:waitasec:
Please excuse any spelling errors as I am legally blind in one eye and cannot read a dictionary
Carolyninoz

Welcome

 

[Lu-Lu]

Dr Watson raised the Stilnox defence as it was in the news yesterday. :fence:
I was a bit worried about him raising this idea as a possible defense,
but , the other members here , helped me see that this possible defense , would hold no weight anyway , as the police would have already investigated this possibility and done tests to disprove it.
:fence:

It would also mean that GBC would have to plead guilty to manslaughter. For some reason I can't see him doing that. Admitting any guilt. To me, he seems like the all or nothing type. :cow:

 

[angel1]

Morning everyone.....I hope your all sitting down .I have something too share with you .
I'll try and be brief.
Long story,cutshort.Iv'e relocated to the northern rivers area,and my partner,has a FIFO,in central QLD.
I've been checking out shuttle buses etc, to no avail,then thought car pooling!
Typed in Lismore to Brisbane and a site came up Pick -up a pal.
Typed in Brisbane,pressed search,then went too search site.
Clicked in box under search and my heart dropped .
The first name that came up, was Allison Baden Clay.I thought I was losing my mind ,I'm not joking..So I checked again.
Who on earth would register that?Obviously someone that has no feelings or morals or a heart.I'm wondering if I can find out who did this .
I am going to e-mail Pick up a Pal,and give them a piece of my mind.I am going to wait an hour or before doing so.Going check out this site a little more.
Someone please tell me ,am I seeing things
I think everyone on this Thread should do so as well.

I went and had a look at that page and i really can't see any reason why Allison couldn't sign up to it herself. It's only driving people around so i really don't see why it should be a problem

 

[LauraMars]

I am just introducing myself and thank you for allowing me to join. I live in the Blue Mountains of NSW and have been following this case from the beginning. We lived in the hinterland of SE Queensland before moving here 2 years ago.
I wanted to see what opinions others have re GBC as to whether anyone thinks he may change his pleay to 'guilty' or will he fight to the end claiming innocence. I see it that even if he is guilty (I personally believe he is) that he would still hold out for a not guilty verdict to get his hands on Allison's insurance money. What has he got to lose except time spent in gaol which is going to happen anyway with the delay for a hearing being around 3 years I believe. I really did think that there would have been at least one more arrest by now - still waiting:waitasec:
Please excuse any spelling errors as I am legally blind in one eye and cannot read a dictionary
Carolyninoz

Hi Carolyninoz and welcome It must be freezing in the Blue Mountains at the moment as I'm freezing today even in Brissy!

I don't think he'll plead guilty either. He appears to have no shame whatsoever, despite how harrowing this must be for his children and Allison's parents. I really feel for his poor girls. As much as I'm sure they've got lots of love and support, there is no way that people could totally shield them from all of this. I think even before his arrest, they would have heard things at school etc regarding the public's suspicion of their father.

 

[Woombite]

Both Isabellnecessary and DrWatson make some very valid points regarding supposed guilt. Most people make the mistake of looking at "evidence" with a view to finding guilt, but very seldom with a view to finding innocence. Thats only "half sleuthing".

I'm going to begin by analysing one of the core pieces of "evidence", popularly discribed as "dire financial circumstances" with debts supposedly totalling around 1 million dollars. These have been outline by various news outlets, I will use those outlined here:

[]

1. $275,000 was owed to friends in "gentlemen's agreements.

Assuming that these are as described, gentlemen's agreements, there would be no pressure on the defendant in regard to repayment.

2. $200,000 to a former business partner.

This also most likely falls into a similar category as the above.

3. $335,000 as guarantor on a mortgage.

This is not a debt at all. Its only a guarantee on a mortgage and should there be a default, the property would normally be sold and nobody is out of pocket. The guarantor may lose some money, but rarely all. Again, it is not a debt at all and is there solely to inflate the figures.

4. $45,000 on a credit card.

This is a very small amount of credit for a top real estate business. A pittance.

5. $75,000 to the CEO of Century 21.

Another very small business debt. I once worked for an enterprise much smaller thatn Century 21 who were regularly in debt to the tune of $500,000+. Another pittance for a business like Century 21.

6. $58,000 to his parents.

I doubt very much that there would be any pressure at all for repayment of this debt.

So what do we get from the above? $120,000 of real debt that may have some kind of pressure for repayment. This is a very small amount for any medium sized business.

The "dire financial circumstances" are nothing other than a huge beat up by the QPS to help secure a refusal of bail for GBC. Not unusual, police are like that.
...
Even one million dollars of real debt is not unusual for a medium sized business and cannot be described as it has been.

HI LJ,

Given the decline in business post Flood etc, I would suggest that with this level of debt, he would be bordering on trading while insolvent. Not only that, dont think you can be a guarantor either if insolvent. Trick here is cash flow and personal vs deductible business debt.

Franchise fee debts are nothing to sneeze at and I am speculating that the business also has other debts eg break in the commercial lease at Taringa and possible rent/outgoing arrears, not to mention employee entitlements, including superannuation and taxation obligations. Walls close in very quickly when these things are not met.

No probs having a $1m debt if you can service it, however, the perceived lifestyle choices eg leasing a Lexus then a Captiva has costs that are only deductible if you are earning a taxable income.

Add to that his family responsibilities with a wife and three gorgeous daughters - and his extramarital situation which would also cost $ to maintain.... fragile house of cards that one.

Other people have disappeared in less serious circumstances ie without a murder charge hanging over one's head but with significant debts - so on the balance of probability, I would not be able to rule flight risk out either.

JMO.

 

[Rational]

So what is NBC address, can he walk there in 10 minutes ?

Yes he can 16 Durness st Kenmore

 

[Fuskier]

Alison was possibly registered with the site at some point in time and her name hasn't been taken down yet. Probably nothing sinister.

IMO it is not wise to make this assumption that Allison registered herself. This needs to be examined by QPolice Detectives to determine the context around this piece of information. Information can be planted too. Just a thought. There may be many attempts to create reasonable doubt and as others have said, we need to keep an open mind. MOO.

 

[ollijack]

I am just introducing myself and thank you for allowing me to join. I live in the Blue Mountains of NSW and have been following this case from the beginning. We lived in the hinterland of SE Queensland before moving here 2 years ago.
I wanted to see what opinions others have re GBC as to whether anyone thinks he may change his pleay to 'guilty' or will he fight to the end claiming innocence. I see it that even if he is guilty (I personally believe he is) that he would still hold out for a not guilty verdict to get his hands on Allison's insurance money. What has he got to lose except time spent in gaol which is going to happen anyway with the delay for a hearing being around 3 years I believe. I really did think that there would have been at least one more arrest by now - still waiting:waitasec:
Please excuse any spelling errors as I am legally blind in one eye and cannot read a dictionary
Carolyninoz

Yep....I agree that he will neverrrrrrrr admit to guilt, and eventually if not already, he will believe it.....IMO (*advertiser censored*)

and welcome. xxxxx

 

[Fuskier]

I have just calmed down and was thinking maybe she did do school runs etc .Thank you

This piece of info needs to be examined by QPolice to establish if this was true or not. We need to keep an open mind as we may come across attempts to create reasonable doubt. MOO.

 

[bearbear]

[/B]

I have thought from the beginning that GBC was involved , responsible for his wife's death, disappearance . Nothing has changed my mind but I do realize things can play out differently in court due to the confines of law. Reasonable doubt will be the big factor here . He's not saying anything so the prosecution have to prove everything .GBC has planned it all quite well but something that night threw a spanner in the works .you make a good point that nothing has solidly tied him to this crime other than circumstances , but to me , the big glaring factor is , if it was accidental , ring ambulance , police , admit it , he's supposed to be a caring father of 3 young children. Why cover up & continue on like business as usual . No pleas for help in finding the real killer . No statements to police[/B] . These sorts of behaviors are indeed incriminating .My opinion only .

it seems he has done a lot of research and very smart for not speaking to the police or media. he doesnt care what people think of him, i think hes probably planning a new start overseas. he knows if he keeps silent he has a better chance of walking free, so he will plead his innocence all the way.he knows that he has to be proven guilty.
by doing and saying nothing he has nothing to lose and everything to gain...his freedom!
if he killed her and it was accidental, he would still do gaol time, he knows all the things he has or hasnt done make him look bad, but peoples opinions dont matter, im sure all he cares about is his freedom and nothing else and now hes fighting for his life. guilty or not, why didnt he just leave allison, they could both be outside today enjoying the sunshine and looking forward to their futures.

 

[LauraMars]

IMO it is not wise to make this assumption that Allison registered herself. This needs to be examined by QPolice Detectives to determine the context around this piece of information. Information can be planted too. Just a thought. There may be many attempts to create reasonable doubt and as others have said, we need to keep an open mind. MOO.

I agree Fuskier, someone could easily have planted this. I found what I think might be the website that was mentioned, but I couldn't see Allison's name under Brisbane. Maybe I was looking at the wrong website.

 

[Fuskier]

...But even though the Judge knew he was being tricked by the police the police...

Is this part of the post making an accusation that QPolice 'tricked' the Judge? If so, I disagree. IMO the QPolice were legally bound to present their evidence before the Supreme Court Justice Boddice as part of the Bail Hearing. MOO.

 

[mouse detective]

It has been reported in MSM that two of GBC's loans were due and payable on 30 June 2012. I believe these were amounts of $200,000 to Jocelyn Frost and $90,000 to Ben B. - both of these people were former business partners in C21 who left last year. I don't think we can assume that there was no pressure from those who provided GBC with money via a 'gentleman's agreement'...but conversely as you say perhaps there wasn't! However if any of this money came from TM, then of course there was 'pressure'.....GBC put this pressure on himself by giving her a deadline of 1 July to 'be with her'. Maybe it's a 'beat up' by the QPS, but facts are facts!

Do we assume these loans are to the business or to GBC personally. One thing that has not been mentioned is tax liability.... often the biggest sign that a business is in dire financial straits is that the tax department is about to close it down.

 

[Rational]

I am just introducing myself and thank you for allowing me to join. I live in the Blue Mountains of NSW and have been following this case from the beginning. We lived in the hinterland of SE Queensland before moving here 2 years ago.
I wanted to see what opinions others have re GBC as to whether anyone thinks he may change his pleay to 'guilty' or will he fight to the end claiming innocence. I see it that even if he is guilty (I personally believe he is) that he would still hold out for a not guilty verdict to get his hands on Allison's insurance money. What has he got to lose except time spent in gaol which is going to happen anyway with the delay for a hearing being around 3 years I believe. I really did think that there would have been at least one more arrest by now - still waiting:waitasec:
Please excuse any spelling errors as I am legally blind in one eye and cannot read a dictionary
Carolyninoz

Welcome to WS Carolyninoz!!!


:welcome5:

You raise an interesting point as I have been wondering why on earth he would not plead guilty, and maybe that is the advice that Mr Mahoney gave him, hence him seeking others advice more to his liking. I think you have hit the nail on the head with a motive for not pleading guilty. What does he have to loose except all his money in legal fees so hence the kind of lawyers that are now coming out of the woodwork!

All IMO

 

[Rational]

[/B]

it seems he has done a lot of research and very smart for not speaking to the police or media. he doesnt care what people think of him, i think hes probably planning a new start overseas. he knows if he keeps silent he has a better chance of walking free, so he will plead his innocence all the way.he knows that he has to be proven guilty.
if he killed her and it was accidental, he would still do gaol time, he knows all the things he has or hasnt done make him look bad, but peoples opinions dont matter, im sure all he cares about is his freedom and nothing else and now hes fighting for his life. guilty or not, why didnt he just leave allison, they could both be outside today enjoying the sunshine and looking forward to their futures.

The overseas thing has been worrying me for awhile. Someone suggested a few pages back that he may have been thinking of joining his brother in Canada if he had not been arrested. His brother was at the funeral and left soon after. Do we know when he arrived in Australia? I know we have been focussing on eitherNigelaine or OW as possible accomplices but there may have been more relatives around at the time??

 

[kalamityk]

just a by the by - his brother's face book page shows that he became friends with a Tanya C on the 23rd June :twocents:

 

[coolcat]

I am just introducing myself and thank you for allowing me to join. I live in the Blue Mountains of NSW and have been following this case from the beginning. We lived in the hinterland of SE Queensland before moving here 2 years ago.
I wanted to see what opinions others have re GBC as to whether anyone thinks he may change his pleay to 'guilty' or will he fight to the end claiming innocence. I see it that even if he is guilty (I personally believe he is) that he would still hold out for a not guilty verdict to get his hands on Allison's insurance money. What has he got to lose except time spent in gaol which is going to happen anyway with the delay for a hearing being around 3 years I believe. I really did think that there would have been at least one more arrest by now - still waiting:waitasec:
Please excuse any spelling errors as I am legally blind in one eye and cannot read a dictionary
Carolyninoz

I am in the Mountains as well and it is freezing even though the sun is shining...We had snow on Sunday evening which was beautiful?

Welcome to WS buckle up because the ride can get bumpy at times!!