Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #35

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marlywings said:
I have looked thanks...none that I've found. You brought the subject up & made the statement of there being "many" media reports in which it's mentioned ""He was engaged with the kids school and extra curricular activities""

If you can't back up your statement then I take it they don't exist.
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I wonder if Aussiemum is for example referring to attending the cross country?
 
Woof said:
Are you sure? http://www.legalaid.qld.gov.au/lega.../Pages/Beingorderedtogotocourtasawitness.aspx

This reads as follows.

Do I have to go to court and answer questions if I get a subpoena?
You may. Read what the subpoena says. The subpoena might say you have to go to court to give evidence or it might say you have to take documents to court.

That makes me think that if Bwana receives a subpoena to give evidence he will be forced to answer. Or isn't that true? I'd love to know.
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Woof, I am sure what I said is correct. Have a look at the legislation.

www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/E/EvidceA77.pdf scroll to section 10

PS Hope his link works, it is my first attempt at a link! Just in case it doesn't I have cut and pasted the relevant section below

Evidence Act
10
Privilege against self-incrimination

(1) Nothing in this Act shall render any person compellable to answer any question tending to criminate the person.

There are further provisions dealing with the accused person giving evidence and rules about what they have to answer that are different from a witness.

EDIT, any question that would not tend to criminate the person must be answered (or face contempt of court). The judge would send the jury out of the room while a discussion went on about whether the answer would tend to criminate or not.
 
Fly, OTW
I will read your answer tomorrow .
Need my beauty sleep love.

Night night all, happy sleuthing xx
 
DunnoZo said:
5. Shave. (OUCH! I cut myself! I was a little bit hurt....):floorlaugh:
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I wonder if he did shave that morning? Might have wanted a five o'clock shadow to start hiding the fingernail marks, oops shaving injuries.
 
Timmy said:
So let's just recap-

1. Scratches on his face caused by a 'blunt razor'.
2. Scratches on his body caused by a 'caterpillar incident'.
3. Cut on his hand caused by a 'lightbulb incident'.

What are the chances??. How unlucky can one man be? And all in the same week his wife gets murdered!!!
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Love your posts :rocker:
 
alioop said:
aussie mum, you make a good point, that GBC was involved with his kids and school. He probably was and probably in his own mind loves his girls and at some time Allison. Unfortunately he has allegedly murdered Allison and destroyed his girls lives.
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It was possibly the GBC blogs that aussie_mum was thinking of, rather than msm reports?
 
Hi. Can I just say this about the lunches. I work with kids EVERY day in my job. At schools and in my offices. I also as such work with their parents. I also train parents in parenting, a big part of which is managing home routines with kids and it involves lunch making along with other things like homework etc. I also have teachers check lunchboxes for kids I'm concerned might be neglected. I have asked them to fill out a thorough record on a variety of lunchbox attributes sometimes for months on end. I check lunchboxes myself also if necessary and have spoken as an expert witness in children's matters on the very subject of home made lunches (or lack thereof) in neglect cases. In all the years I've been doing this in my role it is quite divided when lunches are made. Yes, many do it the night before but there equally as many who do it on the day for a variety of reasons regardless of working, 4+ kids, long travel time, early meetings and so on and so on. And someone else mentioned primary School kids even do it themselves. That is also true - in varying ages as well. Many dads do pack lunches - some every single day, some occasionally and some never. I personally have always done it in the mornings - never at night and nor did my my extremely busy mother of 4 who is an anaesthesiologist. Even my father, an uber busy obstetrician used to pack our lunches on a semi-regular basis in the morning. It's kind of the same with ironing uniforms - night before, that morning or all in one go for the week over the weekend happens. GBC doesn't seem the lunch-making type given he appeared quite busy with that 'thriving' business , his role as BO (Brucey baby) and plotting god only knows what as he kept up appearances at other 'community' pursuits. I'd bank on Allison being the lunch queen BUT we aren't to know as yet - even if she had to leave early next day. On that note I better head off to bed as I have 2 lunches to make, 2 different sets of uniforms to iron, need to leave home by 6.20am (with child for before school athletics training at inner city school [a hike] and I have lots of other little things to do in addition to finding my docs to forward to Kimster to finish verification all once I get up. Some interesting posts today😊
 
littlethings said:
I don't know why the police didn't believe GBC. What on earth could he have said to cast doubt in their minds?
When did you last see your wife?.... I last saw my wife when she went for a walk.
When did she go for a walk?... Well I don't know if she went for a walk.
But you just said she went for a walk?....Oh well, yes, she did go for a walk but I don't know when.
How do you know that she went for a walk?.....I just know.
Which way did she go?.....I think she went that way.
Which way did she go?....I think she went this way.
Which way did she go?....She went her favorite way.
Which way did she go?....I haven't got a clue.
When did you last see your wife?....The last time I saw my wife she was sitting on the lounge watching the footy show,just before she went for a walk.
Are you having an affair with another woman....No, definitely NOT!
Have you ever had an affair with another woman? .....Yes, but it's over, it's finished.
Are you sure it's over?......Yes, most certainly...believe me it's well and truly over.
We have spoken to this woman and she says it's ongoing?....Oh yes well I could be wrong, it might not be over. Oh yes, now I remember. Yes I am still seeing her. Sorry, I misunderstood the question.
Were you going to leave your wife for this other woman?......No. That's absurd.
The other woman says you were going to leave your wife in July? Oh, Yes, well that's in July, it's only April. I thought you meant am I going to leave my wife now, in April. I wish you'd be more specific with your questions.
But you were going to leave her in July?.....I can't remember.
What are the marks on your face? Oh I was using an old shaver.
What is the mark on your hand? ....Cut it on a light bulb.
What are the marks on your torso?.....Got attacked by a caterpillar.
Do you have any bruising? Bruising that may have taken place in a struggle?.....No, the bruising hasn't come out yet. It might come out later, after I crash the car. Everybody get's bruising when they crash a car.
Are you intending to crash a car?.... Absolutely not!
Is there anything we should know about? Was there an argument? Was there a struggle?....Oh yes, a very big struggle.
What do you mean?.....Well it was a very big caterpillar!
You say you slept like a log until 6am, is that correct?....Yep, slept like a baby.
Did you use your phone at all during the night?.....Definitely not! I just told you I was asleep all night.
Yes, but we have evidence that you made a face time call in the middle of the night?.....How did you get that information, i didn't think you could trace those calls.
Yes, well you can trace the calls and a call was made from your phone, can you explain that?.....Of course I can explain it...um...just give me a minute....um.

OH WHAT A TANGLED WEB WE WEAVE, WHEN FIRST WE PRACTICE TO DECEIVE. Sir Walter Scott, Marmion, Canto vi. Stanza 17.
Scottish author & novelist (1771 - 1832)
not fact, just my opinion.
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Brilliant LT - very creative & funny ... Loved it:floorlaugh:
 
marlywings said:
Would you have links for the "many" media reports in which it's mentioned ""He was engaged with the kids school and extra curricular activities"" ??
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Between being on every conceivable committee & having multiple mistresses ... How did he fit in work, let alone quality time with his family ??? :what:
 
*Hi to you all. Just happened to be on another site and saw this post. First of all had a giggle as was wondering if the "middle aged person in a panel van" was one of us!! But then thought, should maybe post this as a warning to anyone heading out to the bridge about how dangerous it could be. Don't want to lose any of you precious peeps!! And no, I don't drive a panel van, lol

Hi Guys
Just a note.
I live very close to the Kholo Creek Bridge. It is a very narrow road, and the other day as I was driving inbound from Mount Crosby a middle aged person in a panel van was doing a 3 point turn right on the bridge to place flowers for Allison. I had to stand on my brakes to avoid this silly person. The local police are aware of the situation.
One death at that bridge is more than enough. For God’s sake, enough is enough. Please take care and do not stop on the bridge or turn round on it. Go down to Wirrabarra St or Bunya St and turn there. Make your act a safe one for everyone.
 
Possumheart you are on fire with your posts tonite. Nobody could poo poo them. (ugh I know- its 2am and I have a sore throat that feels like sandpaper so I am drinking tea and waiting for the panadol to kick in and of course reading WS!)

Nite :eek:fftobed::countsheep:
 
aussie_mum said:
My children's father had a year long affair with a woman he eventually married. During this time he continued to do his parenting duties including cooking dinner, getting up through the night, changing nappies, helping with homework, making lunches for school, sharing duties at the hospital and all those things. Having affairs and still performing parenting duties are not mutually exclusive.
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My hubby is not having an affair and he has never in 8 years made school lunches,he works so is never able to participate in school activities and will cook dinner only occassionaly. I guess I married a real man. As for getting up in the middle of the night nope he doesn't do that either. You ladies are lucky I guess. Or do they do these "super men" things to alleviate their guilt??
 
Mani said:
I wanted to ask Dr Watson if he had any thoughts about sociopaths and could enlighten us - I know this might not be his field but he, along with Strangeworld and Pulps might be able to fill us in on the Anti-social personality and whether people with this have the ability to feel pain as long as it is their own, not others etc.

Any thoughts?

There has been a lot of talk on here over the weeks about sociopaths and I remember seeing or did someone suggest the book entitled 'Sociopaths amongst us'. However do any of you know any real sociopaths and does anyone have any statistics about how many sociopaths occur in the general population - as what it probably means is that we all know a few! MOO
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Hi Mani

It's very late so can't give full response here but do know a bit about it as i am in the early days of study in this area, plus have done loads of reading which was suggested by a therapist years ago to help with my understanding of ex-partner and make some sense of things that happened.

But just quickly just to clarify, Anti-Social Personality Disorder is not the same as Sociopathic Personality Disorder. ASPD tends to describe people who can go into rages and be destructive and they are more likely not to have concern over image, so would be the type to smash things or get into fights in public etc. ASPD is the personality type of vandals and juvenile delinquents. Although not all fit exactly that description there is usually an element of anger and not caring what people think, or having behvaiours where you could not take them out in public for fear of what they might do or say. IMO this does not fit GBC - while he may have gone into tempers with Allison he would have been more likely not to show that to the majority of people and he was much more adept socially. Whether we find his persona appealing or not is another matter but he was definitely a social person.

I'm not sure of the prevalence of sociopaths in the community by stats. I have some good links somewhere but will have to come back with them as have to go to bed. The book "The Sociopath Among Us" is by Robert Hare. It has had a name change or two to something similar sounding, but you should be able to Google it.

I did find a long and detailed article online, written by an amateur but quoting some of the experts. I've snipped a small proportion of the exceedingly long posts and blogging articles about it. I won't post a link as the page is a mess and contains lots of annoying & possibly virus-causing pop-ups.

I will try to post some better info later this week.


THE PSYCHOPATH NEXT DOOR...

Psychopath. We hear the word and images of Bernardo, Manson and Dahmer pop into our heads; no doubt Ted Bundy too. But they’re the bottom of the barrel – most of the two million psychopaths in North America aren’t murderers. They’re our friends, lovers and co-workers. They’re outgoing and persuasive, dazzling you with charm and flattery. Often you aren’t even aware they’ve taken you for a ride – until it’s too late.

Psychopaths exhibit a Jekyll and Hyde personality. “They play a part so they can get what they want,” says Dr. Sheila Willson, a Toronto psychologist who has helped victims of psychopaths. The guy who showers a woman with excessive attention is much more capable of getting her to lend him money, and to put up with him when he strays. The new employee who gains her co-workers’ trust has more access to their chequebooks. And so on. Psychopaths have no conscience and their only goal is self-gratification. Many of us have been their victims – at work, through friendships or relationships – and not one of us can say, “a psychopath could never fool me.”

Think you can spot one? Think again. In general, psychopaths aren’t necessarily the product of broken homes or the casualties of a materialistic society.

Rather they come from all walks of life ............. Explains Michael Seto, a psychologist at the Centre for Addiction and Mental health in Toronto, by the time that a person hits their late teens, the disorder is almost certainly permanent. ............ Psychopath expert Robert Hare writes in his book ‘Without Conscience’, a sociopath’s criminal behavior is shaped by social forces and is the result of a dysfunctional environment.

Psychopaths have only a shallow range of emotions and lack guilt, says Hare. They often see themselves as victims, and lack remorse or the ability to empathize with others. “Psychopaths play on the fact that most of us are trusting and forgiving people,” adds Seto. The warning signs are always there; it’s just difficult to see them because once we trust someone, the friendship becomes a blinder.

Even lovers get taken for a ride by psychopaths. For a psychopath, a romantic relationship is just another opportunity to find a trusting partner who will buy into the lies. It’s primarily why a psychopath rarely stays in a relationship for the long term, and often is involved with three or four partners at once, says Willson. To a psychopath, everything about a relationship is a game. Willson refers to the movie ‘Sliding Doors’ to illustrate her point. In the film, the main character comes home early after just having been fired from her job. Only moments ago, her boyfriend has let another woman out the front door. But in a matter of minutes he is the attentive and concerned boyfriend, taking her out to dinner and devoting the entire night to comforting her. All the while he’s planning to leave the next day on a trip with the other woman.

The boyfriend displays typical psychopathic characteristics because he falsely displays deep emotion toward the relationship, says Willson. In reality, he’s less concerned with his girlfriend’s depression than with making sure she’s clueless about the other woman’s existence. In the romance department, psychopaths have an ability to gain your affection quickly, disarming you with words, intriguing you with grandiose plans. If they cheat you’ll forgive them, and one day when they’ve gone too far, they’ll leave you with a broken heart (and an empty wallet). By then they’ll have a new player for their game.

The problem with their game is that we don’t often play by their rules. Where we might occasionally tell a white lie, a psychopath’s lying is compulsive. Most of us experience some degree of guilt about lying, preventing us from exhibiting such behavior on a regular basis. “Psychopaths don’t discriminate who it is they lie to or cheat,” says Seto. “There’s no distinction between friend, family and sucker.”

No one wants to be the sucker, so how do we prevent ourselves from becoming close friends or getting into a relationship with a psychopath? It’s really almost impossible, say Seto and Willson. Unfortunately, laments Seto, one way is to become more suspicious and less trusting of others. Our tendency is to forgive when we catch a loved one in a lie. “Psychopaths play on this fact,” he says. “However, I’m certainly not advocating a world where if someone lies once or twice, you never speak to them again.” What you can do is look at how often someone lies and how they react when caught. Psychopaths will lie over and over again, and where other people would sincerely apologize, a psychopath may apologize but won’t stop.

Psychopaths also tend to switch jobs as frequently as they switch partners, mainly because they don’t have the qualities to maintain a job for the long haul. Their performance is generally erratic, with chronic absences, misuse of company resources and failed commitments. Often they aren’t even qualified for the job and use fake credentials to get it.

How do you make sure you don’t get fooled when you’re hiring someone to baby-sit your child or for any other job? Hire based on reputation and not image, says Willson. Check references thoroughly. Psychopaths tend to give vague and inconsistent replies. Of course the best way to solve this problem would be to cure psychopaths of their ‘illness.’ But there’s no recipe for treating them, say psychiatrists. Today’s traditional methods of psychotherapy (psychoanalysis, group and one-on-one therapy) and drug treatments have failed. Therapy is more likely to work when an individual admits there’s a problem and wants to change. The common problem with psychopaths, says Sets, “Is they don’t see a problem with their behavior.”

Psychopaths don’t seek therapy willingly, says Seto. Rather, they’re pushed into it by a desperate relative or by a court order. To a psychopath, a therapist is just one more person who must be conned, and the psychopath plays the part right until the therapist is convinced of his or her ‘rehabilitation.’

Even though we can’t treat psychopaths effectively with therapy, it doesn’t mean we can’t protect ourselves, writes Hare. Willson agrees, citing the most important factor in keeping psychopaths at bay is to know your vulnerabilities. We need to “realize our own potential and maximize our strengths” so that our insecurities don’t overcome us. Because, she says, a psychopath is a chameleon who becomes “an image of what you haven’t done for yourself.” Over time, she says, “their appearance of perfection will begin to crack,” but by that time you will have been emotionally and perhaps financially scathed. There comes a time when you realize there’s no point in searching for answers; the only thing is to move on.

[Taken in part from MW© – By Caroline Konrad – September 1999]
(this was the acknowledgement at the bottom of this section of the page I've snipped from - it doesnt give the name of whose page it is. I've only posted part of the part post by this unknown blogger)
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I think some of this is really accurate, and I'm sure many of you will find a lot of statements which ring true re what we know of GBC. Despite that, I believe there was a part of GBC that was actually trying to be a good Dad and husband, but he just couldnt maintain it. He was continually drawn to his dark side and to act on his compulsions.
 
aussie_mum said:
I'm not pro GBC. I'm anti rumour and comments making fun of people involved in the case. I'm anti assumptions made on feelings of people who have never stepped into the BC house let alone having met them. I'm anti making assumptions based on flawed information with personalisation.
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Diddo
 
Aunty said:
Welcome Fly on the Wall :fence:
Can you help with our profiling of GBC please. :please:
Someone here a while back posted a copy of a court document that showed GBC as the Applicant and the Flight Centre as the respondant. From memory , he was suing The Flight Centre for damages whilst working for them.
Can you tell us why GBC made this Application and What the outcome was.
Your name is perfect ,as you were a fly on the wall at that time.
Thanks :rocker:
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Hi Aunty. Thanks for the Welcome. Unfortunately I can't assist with any info on the Flight Centre case as it all went down after I had left. After playing Travel Agent for a few years I returned refreshed to my Accounting career - this time as my own boss. I'm as keen as you to know what the damages claim was about & the outcome. I have asked around amongst my former Flight Centre colleagues and no one has any real idea what it was all about. It is also very interesting to note that we were all very surprised when this case went down & all couldn't believe that Gerard could possibly be responsible ... After the limited evidence that has been shared with the public, we are all in disbelief that the guy we once knew could be capable of this. :notgood:
 
bearbear said:
to be fair, from the photos we have seen of gbc with his daughters, he does look like a happy, loving dad, and various posters have said he was at the girls sports days, participated in parent days and picked them up from school, which is a lot more than a lot of working fathers do, most working parents are time poor.
so it does seem he was making an effort to participate in their lives, as any father should.
dont know if he would make their school lunches though, maybe? but it seems a weird text to send, unless like someone earlier said, he was trying to sound like normal happy families
so, i was really hoping he couldnt have murdered their mother, but sadly it looks like he did.
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I think he was just all about Networking....MOO
 
Good excerpts on Psychopathy. Great for general information and education. However, IMO use caution, suggest not to personalise to the alleged murderer. We have been informed that the case is in a period of sub judice. Best heed our Legal Eagle's advice. My opinion only, not fact.
 
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