Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #35

[DunnoZo]

I know I am kind of talking to myself here, but I have one more thing to say.........

when QPS at first stated that they were considering the fact that Allison's body may have been washed down from further upstream, I truly believe that at this point the detectives were discussing, bandied around, considering all options, and generally discussing what might have happened. most importantly, at this early stage, I do think they would have had to get in a lot of experts in forensics...not just the initial clever and awesome analysts, but experts in specifics.

for example, expert meteorologists, expert creek and river 'specialty dudes', expert statistical dudes, expert entomology dudes, expert dermatologist dudes, expert butterfly injury analysts, expert blood spatter dudes.....
as you can see the list is extensive. and, my point is that when we were given statements via msm, it was coming direct from the detectives in the first day or so. They were guessing as much as we...albeit, with a million more resources and a million more seasoned expert dudes!!!!!!
still, until they get the info, they dont got the info, if you know what I mean

and although its kind of lonely right now talking to myself, I feel safe in the knowledge that sometime over the next day or so, someone will read this and say 'oh yeah, I totally get minnis late night ramblings

minni, I get your late night ramblings, they even make sense in the morning. I keep thinking the QPS peeps on here must have a laugh when we think we come up with something brilliant, and how long a road we take till we get there. Hopefully they may even get some ideas from us.

 

[Gemini Girl]

Is this the part where we admit there is NOTHING new to say until the next trial date? And maybe we should resume our normal lives?

Morning All

rather than the dull prospect of resuming our normal lives (lol), could I respectfully suggest that we temporarily redirect our sleuthing efforts towards the trial in the murder of another lovely young Australiam mother who did not deserve what happened to her, namely Corryn Rayney of Perth.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179098"]Australia: The murder of Corryn Rayney - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


The trial of her husband Lloyd, for her muder, is happening right now, and over the next few weeks. All sorts of fascinating evidence is coming out day by day, including medical related things on which Dr Watson could shed light I have no doubt. And legal niceties etc for other verified sleuthers.

And the end of this trial will I think, pretty much coincide with the committal hearing for GBC, timing wise.

And who can resist hearing the evidence of a cast of witnesses whose names so far include, Webb, Crisp, Black, Trowell, Paradise, Ranger Rabbitt, and first up today, Inspector Wells. I kid you not!!

Also, comprehensive and fascinating reports from a WS member attending court when possible.

No disrespect to Allison meant by this suggestion either, I regularly visit both threads as do a few others.

:twocents:

No disrespect meant to Corryn in finding the witness names amusing, there is nothing funny about her murder
JMO MOO

 

[Aunty]

thats a good thought......NBC could possibly have messed up the instructions. especially if you believe the dementia stories (I don't feel overly confident about them...every single story every told, has portrayed him as shrewd, sharp, angry and determined)

But, on the flipside, I realise these stories are likely two years old or more, and dementia or alzheimers doesn't need that long to affect someone)Good thinking, but as always, we are just throwing around a million ideas with no one to bump us where we need to go!!!!!

Ill give you a little bump in the Dementia direction... Here goes...

Approx 2 years prior to my Mother being diagnosed with Dementia , her personality changed and she became an angry person who at times, made inappropriate comments and decisions. Her decision making skills, were affected early on. I noticed quite early on what was happening and worked with her to solve and guide her through many simple issues. Nothing too hard and nothing that anyone else would notice really.
She started to rely on me and trusted me completely. I was the only one she trusted and favoured. ( thank God, I have a personality that is very accommodating, non judgemental, extremely patient and very very honest, so of course this was a good thing.) well it's true ok. :fence: anyway,

I can imagine though, if I was a greedy bad son (GBC) or daughter, I could have taken full advantage of this, and used my early onset dementia affected parent in anyway I wanted too. :what: Yes, it's quite sick thought, but , i have heard, it does happen. :maddening: so...

IF and only if,( I don't know?) just MAYBE the father , NBC, was going through the early stages of dementia (undiagnosed) he wouldn't see or understand the mess GBC was creating , with the business and his Marriage. During the 12 months prior to Allisons murder?
GBC asked his Father for the equity in his Fathers home. NBC gave it to him?
GBC made bad business decisions. NBC supported him?
It appears that NBC did everything his son asked him to do, without question.
It appears that that is still the situation?
NBC may have been fed GBCs lies about his marriage and needing to get rid of Allison. I can imagine he could very well believe everything GBC told him , without question , even polarizing what he was being told.

There is a strange window in time, i have seen with dementia, where the sick person appears to be of sound mind, when in fact they are extremely vunerable to being coached and manipulated and could be directed to do almost anything for you without the demented person even realizing what the consequences truly are. Medication could also add to this disassociation from what real.

If the Father, NBC, trusted and favoured GBC, in this strange window, It would explain why the father, NBC, has gone along, without question, with all of GBCs stupid business decisions and why he may have without question, followed GBCs lead that night. :what:

I think it is very possible that the father fits this profile.
I think he would have got GBCs instructions wrong, from the facetime call, and sat at the wrong roundabout that evening waiting for GBC.
This could be why the police have not laid charges.
Maybe it's better to keep him to answer questions at the trial ?

Anyway, I'm just answering Minnie s post , nothing more.
I don't know if NBC has dementia.
Im just putting it out there that anythings possible concerning NBCs sighting at the BUS STOP the night poor Allison was murdered.
:banghead: :moo:

 

[Aunty]

:floorlaugh:

I imagine they would be pretty good at keeping the vault shut by this stage of their career, you'd have to be pretty shifty to get them to talk, even in their sleep

Minni , a family member , cant be named sorry, a very big blue player, is like a bloody clam.Won't even raise an eyebrow or move his head. Can't even get body language info.
I see him often, but he wont come near me or even look at me . Avoids eye contact even.
He's not only tight lipped , he's closed off completely. :banghead:
I've asked sister to get info , etc, but she's says he's on to me, so it is impossible. Bugger.Bugger Bum. I'm practicing mind reading now, ESP, wish me luck!

 

[Rational]

Just imagine how prolific we would all become if there was information "drip fed" to us on a weekly basis. Just one morsel..... We would be like a a Sandgate seagull on a chip! "please sir, can I have some more?" how do other forum topics keep their momentum?

When this was first reported my fatherinlaw told me that his offsider knew someone in the QPS and apparently they had got GBC to the stage where he was unbuttoning his shirt at the house about to 'fess up when his legal rep came sweeping in and told him to button up his shirt and say nothing. Have no link nor substantiated evidence so guess this is where I put MOO.

OT have bad toothache - any reccommendations for a dentist in Cairns?

Oil oF cloves, Mersyndol and glass of wine (drink before you put the oil of cloves on as you won't taste anything for two hours) and you will sleep for 8 hours straight, or long enough to get you to the dentist. If you take the Mersyndol don't drive until you know you are alert enough, not after you have taken it!!!! Oil of cloves on cotton wool on the offending tooth.

 

[minni]

Ill give you a little bump in the Dementia direction... Here goes...

Approx 2 years prior to my Mother being diagnosed with Dementia , her personality changed and she became an angry person who at times, made inappropriate comments and decisions. Her decision making skills, were affected early on. I noticed quite early on what was happening and worked with her to solve and guide her through many simple issues. Nothing too hard and nothing that anyone else would notice really.
She started to rely on me and trusted me completely. I was the only one she trusted and favoured. ( thank God, I have a personality that is very accommodating, non judgemental, extremely patient and very very honest, so of course this was a good thing.) well it's true ok. :fence: anyway,

I can imagine though, if I was a greedy bad son (GBC) or daughter, I could have taken full advantage of this, and used my early onset dementia affected parent in anyway I wanted too. :what: Yes, it's quite sick thought, but , i have heard, it does happen. :maddening: so...

IF and only if,( I don't know?) just MAYBE the father , NBC, was going through the early stages of dementia (undiagnosed) he wouldn't see or understand the mess GBC was creating , with the business and his Marriage. During the 12 months prior to Allisons murder?
GBC asked his Father for the equity in his Fathers home. NBC gave it to him?
GBC made bad business decisions. NBC supported him?
It appears that NBC did everything his son asked him to do, without question.
It appears that that is still the situation?
NBC may have been fed GBCs lies about his marriage and needing to get rid of Allison. I can imagine he could very well believe everything GBC told him , without question , even polarizing what he was being told.

There is a strange window in time, i have seen with dementia, where the sick person appears to be of sound mind, when in fact they are extremely vunerable to being coached and manipulated and could be directed to do almost anything for you without the demented person even realizing what the consequences truly are. Medication could also add to this disassociation from what real.

If the Father, NBC, trusted and favoured GBC, in this strange window, It would explain why the father, NBC, has gone along, without question, with all of GBCs stupid business decisions and why he may have without question, followed GBCs lead that night. :what:

I think it is very possible that the father fits this profile.
I think he would have got GBCs instructions wrong, from the facetime call, and sat at the wrong roundabout that evening waiting for GBC.
This could be why the police have not laid charges.
Maybe it's better to keep him to answer questions at the trial ?

Anyway, I'm just answering Minnie s post , nothing more.
I don't know if NBC has dementia.
Im just putting it out there that anythings possible concerning NBCs sighting at the BUS STOP the night poor Allison was murdered.
:banghead: :moo:

Aunty, thankyou very much for this post. It is really helpful in understanding dementia better. I know when my husbands father had dementia he would often get extremely violent and created plenty of work for the nurses and aides!!!
without really any knowledge about NBC and his personality, its impossible to say either way. Still, you make a lot of sense in what you are saying in your last paragraph. Do you remember where the rumour was made or when?

If its only rumour, its possible it came from GBC. GBC could have said to GPS, 'Dad's got no idea what he was doing he's got dementia' but of course, he wouldn't stop to think this can be checked out easily.

 

[minni]

Oil oF cloves, Mersyndol and glass of wine (drink before you put the oil of cloves on as you won't taste anything for two hours) and you will sleep for 8 hours straight, or long enough to get you to the dentist. If you take the Mersyndol don't drive until you know you are alert enough, not after you have taken it!!!! Oil of cloves on cotton wool on the offending tooth.

haha Mersyndol and wine...you trying to knock him right out arent you Rational??
also, if you don't have oil of cloves, you can put whole cloves right on your tooth, crush it up a little bit and just bite down (gently)

 

[Fly on the Wall]

Further to Mountain Mists post earlier about running into the Detective in charge.

A family member lives in Warwick where the detective in charge is currently investigating the Gail Lynch murder. She was chatting with him the other night.

He says there is 100% no doubt of GBCs guilt and he is totally nailed.

The detective said that the key thing they noticed right away was that GBCs life was a facade, a concocted image to impress ... The acquired name, the need to live in a posh suburb beyond their means, just everything was designed to look good but with nothing underneath.

 

[minni]

Minni , a family member , cant be named sorry, a very big blue player, is like a bloody clam.Won't even raise an eyebrow or move his head. Can't even get body language info.
I see him often, but he wont come near me or even look at me . Avoids eye contact even.
He's not only tight lipped , he's closed off completely. :banghead:
I've asked sister to get info , etc, but she's says he's on to me, so it is impossible. Bugger.Bugger Bum. I'm practicing mind reading now, ESP, wish me luck!

:floorlaugh:

major bummer :lipssealed:

 

[Rational]

i agree, i have always thought allison was left high up under the bridge, cant get past it, its just a feeling.

I still don't know where she was left. I think it is quite possible that given that that spot is so close to the Brisbane River that the high volume of water due to the massive amount of rain may have receded very quickly once the rain stopped particularly if it coincided with tidal drop particularly if the body was caught behind something.

On the other hand, what I have also been thinking, given the insurance issues, it may be that Allison's body was left underneath Kholo Bridge and was meant to disappear in the Brisbane River, but maybe some other identifiable items were left at Ugly Creek to strengthen any possible BS stories by GBC that she was murdered by someone else but still have some way of knowing that Allison had been murdered, so he could claim the money.

 

[Aunty]

Aunty, thankyou very much for this post. It is really helpful in understanding dementia better. I know when my husbands father had dementia he would often get extremely violent and created plenty of work for the nurses and aides!!!
without really any knowledge about NBC and his personality, its impossible to say either way. Still, you make a lot of sense in what you are saying in your last paragraph. Do you remember where the rumour was made or when?

If its only rumour, its possible it came from GBC. GBC could have said to GPS, 'Dad's got no idea what he was doing he's got dementia' but of course, he wouldn't stop to think this can be checked out easily.

Rumor about NBC appearing to have signs of dementia came from someone here. Someone here said they saw him at Kenmore shops, looking a bit confused and unsteady from memory, and you also mentioned it, so I have nO idea.
On iPhone now, really hard to type.

 

[Rational]

Morning all

Funny how different minds read things different ways. I didn't read that as "confirming" the missing hands theory at all - I read it as the complete opposite. And with me being a male, as presumably the quoted Inspector was too, we tend to say and hear things LITERALLY, unlike all you girls who look for the hidden meanings and read stuff into things.

So - I would take that as exactly what he allegedly said - forget the missing hands. As in - the hands were NOT missing. Which I have never thought for one minute. I can't see GBC doing that - as I said, unless using a meat cleaver type instrument, it's not quite that easy to remove hands. And for what reason? I really, really doubt that he would have been thinking "Hang on - there might be some of my skin under the finger nails - I think I'll just whip off the hands in case". Nope - that doesn't work for me at all.

So, if the Inspector said as quoted, I would take that to mean the hands were NOT missing, but that there is other stuff to come out which we haven't heard about yet (thinking.....??? clingfilm??? hmmmm)

But that's just my logical and literal male brain working there. I have to say I was a bit surprised when the comments immediately following the alleged quote jumped to the exact opposite conclusion....!

Typical female thing to do (kidding! Now ducking for incoming flak) :blushing:

I don't think it matters if you are male or female, but rather on where you think the emphasis was in the sentence. As in 'forget the missing HANDS, there is MORE' or 'FORGET the missing hands. There is more' or 'forget the MISSING hands, there is MORE'.

 

[minni]

I don't think it matters if you are male or female, but rather on where you think the emphasis was in the sentence. As in 'forget the missing HANDS, there is MORE' or 'FORGET the missing hands. There is more' or 'forget the MISSING hands, there is MORE'.

and body language too Rational.....He may have stood there, and with a wave of his hand and a slight shake of his head, said 'forget the missing hands'..... these things done and said together would indicate he is completely dismissing them as not true.


Or maybe put his hand up in a stop sign type of manner, and said forget about that, its not the main issue here?

there are countless ways it could have been said, and unfortunately the internet cannot convey tone

 

[pulpfiction]

Just going to jump in here with some food for thought. Cutting off hands is not a simple task. If GBC was concerned about the possibility of trace evidence or skin under the finger nails it would be MUCH easier to cut off fingers. As gruesome as that sounds. Literature I've read (forensic psych journal articles & studies for my own role) over the years shows that is also more prevalent that cutting off the hands. Just saying that's all

 

[minni]

Just going to jump in here with some food for thought. Cutting off hands is not a simple task. If GBC was concerned about the possibility of trace evidence or skin under the finger nails it would be MUCH easier to cut off fingers. As gruesome as that sounds. Literature I've read (forensic psych journal articles & studies for my own role) over the years shows that is also more prevalent that cutting off the hands. Just saying that's all

Thanks, I actually heard this rumour from a Brookfield local about two weeks ago, that he cut her fingers off. All of it seems outrageous to me. I mean, you've just killed her, leave her the hell alone (yep, I know that sounds stupid!!) But I just cant imagine it, I mean really, sit down and picture the process of cutting someones fingers of, one at a time. Its horrendous

 

[Justamum]

Morning all,
Just trying to catch up on reading posts after a very busy 24hrs. Started here and wondered, what the heck have you guys been looking at of GBC??? LOL....:giggle:

yes it does..however, it looks a bit floppy/soft? maybe just waterlogged. Its hard to see for the split second its up

 

[minni]

Morning all,
Just trying to catch up on reading posts after a very busy 24hrs. Started here and wondered, what the heck have you guys been looking at of GBC??? LOL....:giggle:

:floorlaugh:

 

[Thinking]

http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2012/04/30/1226343/140509-kholo-creek-bridge.jpg
this image definitely shows low tide. so obviously she was found during low tide. MOO of course

if she had washed down from upstream, then wouldn't it make sense that she would be higher up the bank? something gnawing at my brain, but I cant figure it out yet. It's not coming. If Allison's body came down the river during a downpour, how fast did this happen? the way it has been discussed, it always comes across to me like it was pretty fast.

BUT, when I picture her body moving from a high tide position (ie up higher along the bank), then I picture the very slow moving of the tide from high to low, and I picture her body, very very slowly, bobbing and eddying with the water as the tide lowers. I don't mean to paint a huge visual and graphic image here, but the two dont go together, and like I said, I don't know where I am going here with this, but I keep coming back to the bridge being the place she was left.

Does any of this make sense??

Minni, I think I do understand what you are getting at here too.

Do you recall an informative post early on from Keyboredom, re debris etc in a raging torrent of water, swirling around pylons etc? I can't recall the exact details but I wonder if this info may be of assistance (hope I make sense!).

 

[Thebuttlerdidntdoit]

Ill give you a little bump in the Dementia direction... Here goes...

Approx 2 years prior to my Mother being diagnosed with Dementia , her personality changed and she became an angry person who at times, made inappropriate comments and decisions. Her decision making skills, were affected early on. I noticed quite early on what was happening and worked with her to solve and guide her through many simple issues. Nothing too hard and nothing that anyone else would notice really.
She started to rely on me and trusted me completely. I was the only one she trusted and favoured. ( thank God, I have a personality that is very accommodating, non judgemental, extremely patient and very very honest, so of course this was a good thing.) well it's true ok. :fence: anyway,

I can imagine though, if I was a greedy bad son (GBC) or daughter, I could have taken full advantage of this, and used my early onset dementia affected parent in anyway I wanted too. :what: Yes, it's quite sick thought, but , i have heard, it does happen. :maddening: so...

IF and only if,( I don't know?) just MAYBE the father , NBC, was going through the early stages of dementia (undiagnosed) he wouldn't see or understand the mess GBC was creating , with the business and his Marriage. During the 12 months prior to Allisons murder?
GBC asked his Father for the equity in his Fathers home. NBC gave it to him?
GBC made bad business decisions. NBC supported him?
It appears that NBC did everything his son asked him to do, without question.
It appears that that is still the situation?
NBC may have been fed GBCs lies about his marriage and needing to get rid of Allison. I can imagine he could very well believe everything GBC told him , without question , even polarizing what he was being told.

There is a strange window in time, i have seen with dementia, where the sick person appears to be of sound mind, when in fact they are extremely vunerable to being coached and manipulated and could be directed to do almost anything for you without the demented person even realizing what the consequences truly are. Medication could also add to this disassociation from what real.

If the Father, NBC, trusted and favoured GBC, in this strange window, It would explain why the father, NBC, has gone along, without question, with all of GBCs stupid business decisions and why he may have without question, followed GBCs lead that night. :what:

I think it is very possible that the father fits this profile.
I think he would have got GBCs instructions wrong, from the facetime call, and sat at the wrong roundabout that evening waiting for GBC.
This could be why the police have not laid charges.
Maybe it's better to keep him to answer questions at the trial ?

Anyway, I'm just answering Minnie s post , nothing more.
I don't know if NBC has dementia.
Im just putting it out there that anythings possible concerning NBCs sighting at the BUS STOP the night poor Allison was murdered.
:banghead: :moo:

The possibility of NBC having the beginnings of dementia is one I hadn't even thought of. It would certainly make him more easily manipulated.

But I guess he wouldn't need to have dementia to misunderstand GBC when he ask him to meet him at the BROOKFIELD roundabout. He might even be a bit deaf, didn't someone here say he had an hearing aid?). But it's easy to misunderstand someone when you've just woken up and when meeting at the Brookfield roundabout just wouldn't make sense to him - why not just at GBC's which is so close to the roundabout? Or GBC might have just said "the roundabout here", or something. GBC wouldn't have give him all details over the phone, just asked to meet him. NBC, as he sat waiting for GBC at the wrong roundabout, would not have been aware of what he was about to be asked to do (if GBC actually picked him up), otherwise he would never have sat at such a public place.

The reason why GBC wanted to meet at the Brookfield roundabout was to not attract too much attention from car movement at his place. He might have driven the Prado to the show grounds carpark (basically at the roundabout - and didn't someone see it parked there?) and then walked back to get the Captiva wint Allison in it. He wanted his dad to swap car and follow him on the Prado because he intended to leave the Prado at Kholo tomakeit lookalike a suicide.

 

[Thinking]

Any drink in the desert is welcome is it not?

Last evening from QPS Inspector's mouth (speaking to me personally), "Forget the missing hands. There is a lot more to come out."
I know we've heard, spoken about, and chewed over all this before, however it's a new source so sharing to uplift us all.

Avagudwun team. xox

Thanks for sharing MM!

Does anyone believe that more than one person may have involved in a premeditated way, with Allison's death? My feeling has been definitely yes to involvement of others, but AFTER the murder. However, I recently heard from a sensible source (I would still treat it as rumour of course, not fact) that there was indeed involvement of more than one, in terms of premeditation. I was a bit gobsmacked by this - does anyone have a view on this? I just can't see what they had to gain - the life insurance payout really isn't worth the risk taken in my opinion (especially not when shared!), so is there much more we don't know, I wonder...

If it was a planned thing, the others involved must be furious with GBC as he sure made a mess of things.