IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #13

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According to Wylma Cook, he had ALREADY given up info on others in the drug chain. That's why he was offered the plea bargain. Whether he turned it down or not is irrelevant. He had already narc'ed. The damage was done.

It is possible that one of the people he ratted out was angry enough to take Lyric as payback. Elizabeth - wrong place, wrong time.

Maybe.

Usually when someone is charged and goes to trial, part of the prosecution's job is to show why they were charged. To do that, they need sworn testimony from DM.

Giving information is bad but refusing to give a sworn statement limits the damage done.

Of course, I have to keep reminding myself that many people connected to meth are no longer dealing with a full deck.

Who can predict for sure what they will and won't do? Not me.
 
Not trying to beat a dead horse here….I see others have posted plenty regarding my pedal/paddle post earlier. Since I’ve done the work to back up my post, I’m posting what I found for what it's worth. Then I’m off to bed… no doubt I will be dreaming about pedals and paddles.

JamieinLA, I did search Google prior to my post to be sure.

I searched pedal boat and paddle boat manufacturers in a more thorough Google search. These are two totally different products, they are not one in the same. The links are below. If you type in PADDLE boat manufacturer, PEDAL boat companies come up and they list the product we are thinking of as a PEDAL boat (even though you typed in PADDLE). Google/search engines are smart like that (keywords). If you just type in paddle boat in your Google search, you will get all of the amazon, ebay listings where posters use the wrong product name.

Yes, some people in the Midwest (LE included) call them paddle boats but there are distinct differences between the that could make a difference. IMO, it’s kind of like calling a kayak a canoe or calling an SUV a truck. (I’m too tired to think of a better analogy). Announcing that they are looking for a canoe when they are really looking for a kayak could possibly make a difference in the outcome, right. What good does it do if we’re not looking at the correct type of watercraft? Has LE ever actually described it? For all we know it could be the less commonly seen aluminum pontoon type Paddle Boat with a motor. For those working hard to sort through timelines, theories, etc…the differences might be important. For those at the lake that day, trying to recall what they saw, it might make a difference.

PADDLE Boats are taller, larger, more expensive, made of aluminum and float like a pontoon boat, they have a platform like a pontoon boat which might make it easier/harder to get on depending if your’re already in the water. They might need to be docked vs. pulled onto the shore (not sure but they look heavier) some are also motorized - I included a link for one of those too).
PEDAL Boats are made of plastic, are low to the water, they are quiet, slow to move and easy to drag and park onto land vs. tying up to a dock. They are not easy to fall out of and they would be difficult to get in from the water vs. climbing in from a dock IMO. Pedal boats are very commonly seen in the Midwest in comparison to the number or Paddle Boats I have seen here.
I also checked Gander Mountain and Dicks Sporting Goods and typed in paddle boat and then pedal boat. The links are also below.

BTW…after all of this, I don’t even think we know for sure which LE is looking for (correct name or not). They both have “the pedal thingies” ;) :banghead:

PEDAL Boat Mfg/Brand
Paddle Wheeler http://www.paddlewheeler.com/
KL Industries http://www.klindustries.com/
Pelican http://www.pelicansport.com/index.php?language=en&category=pedalboat&nauticalboat=pedalboat

Contour http://www.bwmarineproducts.com/contour_pedal_boats.htm
Future Beach http://futurebeach.com/index.php/pedal-boats.html

PADDLE Boat Mfg/Brandhttp://www.paddleking.com/Aluminum Paddle Boats.htm
http://www.aquacycleusa.com/
motorized paddle boat http://www.aquacycleusa.com/electric.asp

Sporting Goods Store searches
Pedal Boats search Gander Mountain
http://search.gandermountain.com/?cname=Pedal-Boats&Ne=1000&N=1625

Paddle Boat search Gander Mountain
http://search.gandermountain.com/?D=paddle+boat&Nty=1&N=0&Dk=0&No=0&Ntt=paddle+boat

Pedal Boats Search Dicks:
http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/search/index.jsp?kwCatId=&kw=pedal boat&origkw=pedal+boat&sr=1

Paddle Boat search Dicks (typed PADDLE – displays PEDAL boats)
http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=4417861&sr=1&origkw=paddle boat
 
BTW…after all of this, I don’t even think we know for sure which LE is looking for (correct name or not).

Actually, we on WS do know what LE is asking about because a WS member emailed LE and asked them. The reply indicated one of the plastic boats that is powered via pedal.

The post was in the previous thread (#12) on this case.
 
<snipped for space>
And just to be sure, one of the WS'ers emailed LE and got an answer: yes, by paddle boat they meant a pedal powered thingie.

Yes and I so appreciated that clarification! I actually saw two articles in large-scale magazines (People was one, I forget the other one) in the last day that mentioned paddle boats and showed pictures of exactly what I was picturing. Hard copy so no links available, sorry... but I thought it was ironic timing!

lol or attempting to lol at a not funny situation, but I'm wondering if maybe we should call it a "pedal powered boat-like thingie" to help w/the confusion. :)

ETA: what I was picturing was the little low plastic boats. Now that I've caught up apparently even "pedal powered boat-like thingie" won't help either.
 
Has anyone sorted through the absconded predators from that area?

I'm sorry (not really) to keep quoting you. But you and I are on the same wave length. I see from your post count that you've been to this rodeo a few times.

I think a lot of this thread has gotten off on tangents that aren't going to really mean much. Pedal boat/ paddle boat. . .it's neither here nor there. IMHO LE asked because the vantage point from being on the lake is going to be much better, say, from somewhere else on the trail or shore. I grew up around boats and large bodies of water. Some one on the lake, in a boat, would have a much better position to see around the entire shore and trail than someone on land. I don't think LE believes the girls were snatched by someone in a paddle/pedal boat. I just don't see that. .. much too cumbersome. BUT someone IN a paddle/pedal boat would have been in a better position to see the girls or anything that happened on shore that was amiss. I also believe that LE already has the answer to their question. Are they still asking for the person (if there really even was a person) to come forward?

I was going to wait with my comments, but I might as well go ahead. Please forgive me for being late to the case. I've been popping in since the beginning but it's been near impossible to keep up. So I apologize in advance if any of this has already been discussed ad nauseum.

I see a lot of posts about Maiden Lane. While I think this is a definite possibility, I have questions about that hole in the fence to the hwy. As I understand it, there has been some road construction going on there and traffic is slowed. Correct? It looks like from the Google map that the area where the bikes were found can be seen from the highway. .. when you take the little yellow man for a walk. This bothers me immensely. I can see some perp/perps cruising through town and seeing the girls on their bikes, hopping on the hwy and then seeing the bikes on the trail, taking that exit and looping around the lake to that spot.

In a different scenario, I can see the hole in the fencing being used as a point to dump the bikes and the purse after the girls were already taken. It seems that people are really thinking about the perps being well hidden (Maiden Lane) but it's been my experience that sometimes "well hidden" means right in front of your face! Would anybody cruising down the hwy really think, say, a service van on the side of the road would be odd? What about that hwy? Is it an interstate? Would the people in those cars at that particular time be travelers that wouldn't necessarily know to report something. . .especially if it didn't seem odd? I know if I was driving across state (let alone if I was on a long road trip and not in my home state) would I think to report a work van (or any vehicle really) parked on the side of the freeway in a missing child case if I didn't even realize I was in the right spot at the right time to see something. KWIM?

I have more thoughts, but I'll save them. I really think this was an abduction, crime of opportunity. It reminds me of the woman in eastern Montana (Sherry something). And the attempted abductions on the case map bother me. . .the dates and the frequency. . screams desperation and urgency. :(

I don't have a good feeling about this case. .but I pray everyday that I'm wrong. :please:
 
What are the possible scenarios:

1. Girls ran off. [ not at all likely]

2. Girls taken by family to protect them. [ not likely, imo]

3. Girls taken by family friend/acquaintance/stalker [ bikes staged]

4. Girls abducted in town [ bikes staged]

5. Girls went to the lake to meet perp. abducted from there/

6. Perp was hiding there in the trap, waiting. random opportunity.

Any other scenarios?
 
What are the possible scenarios:

1. Girls ran off. [ not at all likely]

2. Girls taken by family to protect them. [ not likely, imo]

3. Girls taken by family friend/acquaintance/stalker [ bikes staged]

4. Girls abducted in town [ bikes staged]

5. Girls went to the lake to meet perp. abducted from there/

6. Perp was hiding there in the trap, waiting. random opportunity.

Any other scenarios?

I think that pretty much covers it.

MOO. . .but I think they were abducted, whether in town or at the lake. . whether by someone they knew or someone they didn't.

So my question is what direction do we move in? On the case map there are some markers about some shoes being found, but I couldn't find where that info came from. Did LE search those areas that appear to be north east of town? I wonder what led them in that direction? Do we know if these shoe/ shoes are connected to the girls? What is in that direction? Are there campgrounds out that way? Is it rural, wilderness, etc?
 
I don't think this is an accurate portrayal of the girls. We just don't know enough about them. <snipped for space>

Between this and lots of recently registered users it seemed like a good time to repost tlcox's post about the girls. I take zero credit for this other than happening to remember it and really appreciating it:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #10
 
What are the possible scenarios:

1. Girls ran off. [ not at all likely]

2. Girls taken by family to protect them. [ not likely, imo]

3. Girls taken by family friend/acquaintance/stalker [ bikes staged]

4. Girls abducted in town [ bikes staged]

5. Girls went to the lake to meet perp. abducted from there/

6. Perp was hiding there in the trap, waiting. random opportunity.

Any other scenarios?

Girls went to lake and saw someone who shouldn't be there and/or doing something s/he/they shouldn't. They left bikes by gate or bikes were moved.

I had thought of a few others until I started writing. Maybe I need some sleep one of these nights.
 
There was a case back in the 1970s in Iowa where the perp put the body into a septic tank on someone else's property (I'm going on memory here, not a media cite, so take this as a rumour).

The people who lived in the house called for a clean out because all of a sudden their septic tank smelled really, really, really bad. Not like it had ever smiled before. When the clean out guy got there and looked in, he could see body parts.

So if the girls' bodies went into a septic tank by an occupied house, it could be that the occupants would notice it fairly quickly.

Aren't the septic tanks in Iowa buried under a layer of soil? They are where I live, we get it cold here like you folks do. Every few years we have to have our septic tank pumped out, and the only way we can remember where exactly to dig down to find the lid is to line up with our hydro pole and a corner of our house. Then the digging leaves a patch of broken earth. Surely a homeowner would notice a patch of freshly dug earth over their septic tank.

We have had dead bodies disposed of in septic tanks here too, and I suspect it is the disturbed earth that is a big clue.

I am wondering how a killer would know where to dig in someones yard to find the septic tank. Even lifting the big cement lid here is a gut buster that we leave for the tank driver and his long metal pry rod.
 
I see a lot of posts about Maiden Lane. While I think this is a definite possibility, I have questions about that hole in the fence to the hwy. As I understand it, there has been some road construction going on there and traffic is slowed. Correct? It looks like from the Google map that the area where the bikes were found can be seen from the highway. .. when you take the little yellow man for a walk. This bothers me immensely. I can see some perp/perps cruising through town and seeing the girls on their bikes, hopping on the hwy and then seeing the bikes on the trail, taking that exit and looping around the lake to that spot.

In a different scenario, I can see the hole in the fencing being used as a point to dump the bikes and the purse after the girls were already taken. It seems that people are really thinking about the perps being well hidden (Maiden Lane) but it's been my experience that sometimes "well hidden" means right in front of your face! Would anybody cruising down the hwy really think, say, a service van on the side of the road would be odd? What about that hwy? Is it an interstate? Would the people in those cars at that particular time be travelers that wouldn't necessarily know to report something. . .especially if it didn't seem odd? I know if I was driving across state (let alone if I was on a long road trip and not in my home state) would I think to report a work van (or any vehicle really) parked on the side of the freeway in a missing child case if I didn't even realize I was in the right spot at the right time to see something. KWIM?

I have more thoughts, but I'll save them. I really think this was an abduction, crime of opportunity. It reminds me of the woman in eastern Montana (Sherry something). And the attempted abductions on the case map bother me. . .the dates and the frequency. . screams desperation and urgency. :(

I don't have a good feeling about this case. .but I pray everyday that I'm wrong. :please:

SBM

Yes, the road by Meyer's Lake is an interstate, I-380 (also called Hwy 20). It has been pretty much ruled out as a means of getting to or away from the bicycle site, though, based on several factors.

On 13 July, one side of I-380 had been closed down for construction, so all traffic was on one side of the road. It's a heavily used bit of interstate because it's the main route from the south to the Cedar Valley area.

With all traffic forced onto one side of the interstate, it was close to bumper to bumper traffic during the day.

Additionally, the lanes and shoulders were not standard width. The shoulders were not wide enough to allow a vehicle to be parked and also allow two semis going in opposite directions to pass safely. Any vehicle parked on the tiny shoulder would be immediately spotted (and probably towed).

The construction crews were questioned by LE. There hasn't been any information released to the media about the results of those interviews but I think if someone on one of the crews had seen anything revealing, LE remarks to the media would have placed more importance on I-380.

At that point, the area between the shoulder of the highway and the fence is a steep slope. The hole in the fence is there because someone went off the interstate a few years ago and crashed into the fence. To my eye, the slope is steep enough that the only way to take a vehicle down it without rolling the vehicle would be to go straight down. In which case, the turn onto the trail would be impossible (trail being only 10 feet wide).

Likewise, someone carrying two bicycles down the slope would have a difficult time of it. And would stick out like a sore thumb. Irate truckers would probably be on their cellphones screaming at 911 for the jerk on the side of the road to be arrested. <LOL>

I've driven through that area many a time although not in the last 6 years. I have a friend who lives in Evansdale, so I have some familiarity with the area. As I remember it, in the summer, Meyer's Lake is just a flash of water through a small clearing in the trees. The bike trail is not obvious from the interstate. The weeds and trees mostly conceal whatever is on the trail from the interstate.

Finally, there is no signage from the interstate for Meyer's Lake. So if someone happened to be travelling on the interstate and saw the girls on the trail, it would not be immediately obvious how to get from the exit to Meyer's Lake.

The location of the bicycles, no matter if that is the scene of the abduction or if the bicycles were placed there afterwards to stage a scene, seems to argue for at least a certain level of familiarity with the area.

Most of the trail around Meyer's Lake is visible from either the west end of the U shape or the east end. The place the bicycles were found is the one place on the trail that is not open to view from afar. The double fences plus the vegetation plus the dip in the trail all work to conceal a very short (500 foot or so) section of the trail.

So the perp would have to know more than just the location of Meyer's Lake, I think they would have to know there was a section of trail that is hidden from sight, even though that concealment is not readily apparent from a car.
 
Aren't the septic tanks in Iowa buried under a layer of soil? They are where I live, we get it cold here like you folks do. Every few years we have to have our septic tank pumped out, and the only way we can remember where exactly to dig down to find the lid is to line up with our hydro pole and a corner of our house. Then the digging leaves a patch of broken earth. Surely a homeowner would notice a patch of freshly dug earth over their septic tank.

We have had dead bodies disposed of in septic tanks here too, and I suspect it is the disturbed earth that is a big clue.

I am wondering how a killer would know where to dig in someones yard to find the septic tank. Even lifting the big cement lid here is a gut buster that we leave for the tank driver and his long metal pry rod.

My tank (installed in the early 80s) is buried underground but has a concrete stem with the lid that sticks up about 6 inches high out of the ground. Just an inch or two above the top of the grass. The tank is deep enough that the cold air from the stem doesn't freeze the tank in the winter.

Our tank has a metal lid. I've never lifted it but I can only imagine it is lighter than a concrete lid. It looks like a manhole cover.

It's my understanding that since the 1970s, the most popular design for septic tanks has been with the raised stem lid. It saves a lot of frustration in finding the darn thing and it allows for an easy way to do the annual inspection (recommended but not required in Iowa).
 
Yes and I so appreciated that clarification! I actually saw two articles in large-scale magazines (People was one, I forget the other one) in the last day that mentioned paddle boats and showed pictures of exactly what I was picturing. Hard copy so no links available, sorry... but I thought it was ironic timing!

lol or attempting to lol at a not funny situation, but I'm wondering if maybe we should call it a "pedal powered boat-like thingie" to help w/the confusion. :)

ETA: what I was picturing was the little low plastic boats. Now that I've caught up apparently even "pedal powered boat-like thingie" won't help either.

How about DPB (damn paddle/pedal boat)....it's earned it. IMO
 
the thing that bothers me most about this case is the fact that Granma states that the girls never traveled that far from home so it must be staged, yet the lake was the first place they looked. Why assume they were at the lake if they wouldn't go that far??? that has been a huge thorn in my side and until I get past that I can't assume this is a random abduction by a stranger.
 
JMO, yes, and they are crusing for a brusin'. How can you stay aware when you can't hear a thing that's going on around you. More of a target for that very reason. Don't do that!!

While I agree with you on the dangers of it, it makes me sad to think that it's too dangerous for kids to go out riding their bikes or anyone (including kids) to go out cycling, jogging, walking, etc. and listen to music.
 
While I agree with you on the dangers of it, it makes me sad to think that it's too dangerous for kids to go out riding their bikes or anyone (including kids) to go out cycling, jogging, walking, etc. and listen to music.

All the kids I see in my neighborhood have headphones on, or whatever they call them now. They don't even blink if you pull right up next to them at a stop sign, no reactions at all. The smaller kids could be picked right up and put into a car before they know it.
 
My tank (installed in the early 80s) is buried underground but has a concrete stem with the lid that sticks up about 6 inches high out of the ground. Just an inch or two above the top of the grass. The tank is deep enough that the cold air from the stem doesn't freeze the tank in the winter.

Our tank has a metal lid. I've never lifted it but I can only imagine it is lighter than a concrete lid. It looks like a manhole cover.

It's my understanding that since the 1970s, the most popular design for septic tanks has been with the raised stem lid. It saves a lot of frustration in finding the darn thing and it allows for an easy way to do the annual inspection (recommended but not required in Iowa).

Thank you, very interesting! No kidding, it saves all the frustration of trying to find your tank. Over ours is lawn and in the Spring the grass IS greener over our septic tank. Erma Bombeck was right!!
 
SBM

Yes, the road by Meyer's Lake is an interstate, I-380 (also called Hwy 20). It has been pretty much ruled out as a means of getting to or away from the bicycle site, though, based on several factors. <snipped for space>

Thank you, Thank YOU, THANK YOU! That clears up a LOT for me!

So it looks like we are dealing with a perp that is familiar to the area. . and the lake. . .enough to know that that spot is the weak spot. :(

Can you tell me what the area heading north east out of town is like? Any ideas why LE searched in that direction?
 
the thing that bothers me most about this case is the fact that Granma states that the girls never traveled that far from home so it must be staged, yet the lake was the first place they looked. Why assume they were at the lake if they wouldn't go that far??? that has been a huge thorn in my side and until I get past that I can't assume this is a random abduction by a stranger.

There aren't that many places in Evanston to look for a pair of girls on bicycles outside.

It was my understanding that Meyer's Lake was not the first place Grandma C looked. She drove around the streets, checked the other park and the elementary school and then drove by the park.

After she returned with Aunt TB, Aunt TB said she had a gut feeling and urged Grandma C to check out Meyer's Lake again.

The trail does go north and passes fairly close to the Collins house. Just because the girls weren't supposed to go far doesn't mean that they were totally ignorant about Evansdale outside of the block wide or so area that family says they were allowed to play in unsupervised.

I am hoping that one of the locals can answer my question about how easy it is to surveil the other local parks from a vehicle. If Meyer's Lake is the only one that cannot be completely seen from the parking lot, I think that's an obvious explanation for Aunt TB's gut feeling.
 
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