Sidebar Discussion #11

[zippitydoda]

Her defense team would have convinced her to take a plea? Was this the same DT that sold her pics for 200K before she was even charged with murder? The same DT who were daily grandstanding in front of the media?

Since when did FCA pay any attention to what her parents wanted? I didn't see any "cooperation" in the jail house videos..and Baez saw a "cash cow" and a "career maker" when he met FCA - no way would he have allowed her to take a plea.

So let's say there actually was a big fight on the 15th and FCA stormed out of the house with Caylee and refused to answer the Anthony's calls for a month. Then what - they would have called the police who would tell them she is an adult and Caylee is her child - she has the right to go where she pleases, etc.

LG.. I would suggest that if the A's were honest - none of this would have happened. Plea deal and directly to jail...

I too cannot do this anymore - we believe what we believe at this point and thats ok...

 

[logicalgirl]

With their pithy answers and deliberate non-truth telling answers, one could reasonably argue they were angry to be brought into a railroading of their precious CMA for a crime they felt she didn't commit.

A person doesn't get to "expound" on the witness stand. They can only answer the questions they are asked under the guidelines of their previous depos. All three of the Anthony's knew FCA was guilty IMO.

Again IMO, George knew from the beginning and said so in his initial meeting with the LE. Lee obviously tried to believe FCA didn't kill Caylee but from what I read, that lasted at the most two months. CA IMO wanted to believe Caylee wasn't dead and kept up her BS until the remains wer found. Then she knew.

What we were discussing what how their behavior impacted the trial and the verdict. I agree their behavior "left much to be desired" but don't think it impacted the trial and verdict. When you have a jury that blatantly ignores the evidence, the judges instructions and concerns themselves more with their movies, their food and getting the heck out of their by blindingly following their sheep fool of a foreman - then you get the verdict we got.

IMO - the Anthony's give us much to discuss - but actual evidence? I don't think so.Those were two very smart SA's on that case - probably the best out there. But with that jury? There lies the blame.

 

[logicalgirl]

LG.. I would suggest that if the A's were honest - none of this would have happened. Plea deal and directly to jail...

I too cannot do this anymore - we believe what we believe at this point and thats ok...

Never Never Never would FCA have accepted a plea. Never IMO.

 

[babiesstolemydingo]

I think when GA showed up at JA's party he was clearly sending a message to someone (CA and/or FCA). He knew darn well that media would be at that party and that his appearance there would cause a stir.

Congrats to JA. I was up bright and early yesterday to throw my vote his way. I am so happy for him.

 

[zippitydoda]

Never Never Never would FCA have accepted a plea. Never IMO.

She may have if she knew her parents were not going to lie for her.

 

[coco puff]

So..could you be more specific about what the "few words of truth" from the "A's" would have been that would have helped her be found guilty?

Such as...we think she is guilty? She's a pathological liar? She was a bad mother? We know she killed her?

Do you seriously think that would have helped in a trial? That would be considered evidence? I don't think so....there is nothing factual about their "opinions". I didn't notice that what they "thought" or "felt" or "said" during the trial had any effect at all on the trial itself, or the verdict. IMO

sure would have helped if he had not lied. LG you saw LK, bold faced LIAR he was!!! It would have also helped if he had not changed his story so many times. HE is the reason she is free today. He should be hiding in a cave somewhere. Crab puffs be damned, he is not about to give up the good life of people feeling sorry for him.

 

[Sleuths4Me]

I was never a fan of the A's especially with them helping KC out but after GA was on the stand for the last time and the whole 1+1 deal and wiping his hands clean as he left the stand really stood out to me.

The As are not "reasonable people" they are not what you would call "normal" there was probably crazy things happening in that house for years, I seem to think more of the control issues of CA and she probably belittled GA whenever she had the chance. I look at the videos of them together and he now reminds me of a child who cowers around their abusive parents...we excluding when he's yelling at the media. NONE of their heads are screwed on straight and not giving that as an excuse but that is why they did what they did for KC. I think at the end of trial he probably had had it and that's when he tried..key word tried...to do the right thing for Caylee but it was too late in the game.

I think he and CA are probably no longer together, not wearing his wedding ring (which I looked at other videos and he always had it on), he would have NEVER shown up at JA's victory party had he still been with CA...or if he did CA would be right with him...but you know she would never have gone. I think he showed up to actually congratulate him and break free of CA holding him back, I don't think he did it to get in the spot light but to show people that he was over them and to actually congratulate JA.

 

[TotallyObsessed]

Look - I agree with all those things and it has given us all kinds of fodder for three long years of discussion - you are missing my point!
All of the things you have mentioned above were either refuted at trial OR had no impact on the case at all.

I'm not saying there was nothing wrong with their behavior - there was - but folks keep saying it impacted the trial - it didn't IMO. The LE pretty much igored the Anthony's after George came in and gave his initial statement. What they said and did had squat to do with the evidence and charges. IMO

NO LG - they weren't refuted at trial. They were lied about at trial. Both GA and CA got up on that stand saying what a great mother and daughter IT was. BS. They lied.

CA lied about searches....at trial.

GA lied about the gas can....at trial.

Many, many more "At trial" lies and obsfucation that helped set IT free. All done freely by GA and CA.

 

[TotallyObsessed]

sure would have helped if he had not lied. LG you saw LK, bold faced LIAR he was!!! It would have also helped if he had not changed his story so many times. HE is the reason she is free today. He should be hiding in a cave somewhere. Crab puffs be damned, he is not about to give up the good life of people feeling sorry for him.

I very much agree with you coco puff. It was the lies, the changing lies, and the new lies that added up to the Greatest Show on Earth. Now, whether it was calculated (which IMO would take someone a whole heck of a lot smarter than Jose Baez to pull off)....that is another question. But the fact that the A's constantly changed the goal posts effed up this trial big time.

I.E.,

He lied in his depositions, both State and Civil. Then at trial, he was stuck in those lies. So the "truth" couldn't be told....or he would look like a liar.

GMAFB

 

[luvmygarden]

I guess I just want one of them to step outside the box for Caylee.
Wishful thinking I guess.

 

[IfIMay]

On an interesting note... Jose (hi Jose :seeya: ) must still be in the closet because he hasn't had his daily buy back bounce up. (12,675/61 and I don't see a ranking under criminal law).

 

[TotallyObsessed]

^^ All of my ranting up there is not to say that I don't think George is very much a castrated man.

George reminds me of my father. My mother ruled the roost. Very rarely would he stand up to her for his own, or my, behalf. I see George and see THAT behavior. He and Casey were "in cahoots" their entire life against CA. UNTIL CAYLEE DISAPPEARED. Anytime GA tried to step outside the mold to "out" Casey for her lies, Cindy stopped him. George eventually gave up. His GJ testimony was his crowning glory, IMO. No, we won't know what he said, but I do believe he told the truth at that GJ hearing. About the smell in the car, about a lot of things. I don't know if you all realize, but a GJ can ask anything. They can be told everything. I know. I worked GJ for the STate for years. I sat in on GJ hearings. You are not bound by the "rules" of court as if you were in a criminal trial.

So I believe George did do the right thing for Caylee at that moment in time. Thereafter, Cindy took over as usual.

I think if George had stuck to his truthfulness (like what was evidenced on those tapes of LEO questioning him) - there would have been a different outcome. He would have been a lone voice in the wilderness though.

 

[zippitydoda]

From JA - "Its a new day"... its a nice video of him thanking the voters

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/vide...s-thanks-on-the-corner-of-Orange-and-Colonial

 

[RANCH]

NO LG - they weren't refuted at trial. They were lied about at trial. Both GA and CA got up on that stand saying what a great mother and daughter IT was. BS. They lied.

CA lied about searches....at trial.

GA lied about the gas can....at trial.

Many, many more "At trial" lies and obsfucation that helped set IT free. All done freely by GA and CA.

So are you saying that the prosecution failed to refute the lies that CA/GA made on the stand because they screwed up, or that they had no evidence to refute these lies?

 

[watcher9]

I believe the A's knew quite early that Caylee was dead and FCA was responsible. What they didn't know was the real truth about how it happened. When GA tried to go after the truth from FCA, CA thwarted his attempts. GA tried to speak the truth as he knew it for the GJ, but then for whatever reason, the A's closed ranks and tried to thwart the LE investigation, refusing LDTs. They jumped onto the nanny or SODDIT theory and the pizza smell trying to thwart the accusations away from FCA.

The facts that they were underwater financially, saw how much money FCA and JB made, and started fielding the many offers, they went money hungry, trying to again thwart the investigation by throwing out possible sightings.

When the depositions for GA and CA were conducted, they both were trying to thwart the PT with their testimonies fighting against every question and trying to word their answers to deflect any evidence against FCA, thereby locking in their maybe not so truthful answers for the trial. Some of which were the inconsistencies about that Monday morning, the gas cans, FCA's stealing and lying and missing Pooh blanket from bedroom.

I don't know if any of this would have made a difference in the minds of the P12, but if the A's weren't thwarting around, maybe the PT would have planned their case differently.

 

[TotallyObsessed]

Interesting. I saw the DA's office as being on their side. I agree about the money and the media events and the foundation. However I would like to point out that once Brad Conway was out of the way and Lippman became their lawyer, they said nothing at all. Not for or against.

I saw what I believed was them sitting on "the defense side" at the trial but were they? The defense table was along the side. I don't know if they supported Caylee or not because, again, they made no public statements.

I believe the circus of events was set in stone once JB sold the pics to ABC. My point was - I don't believe the Anthony's behaviour affected the outcome of the trial. They were a sideshow.

LG - if I am not mistaken LDB declared CA as a hostile witness. Same with LA. They had to virtually read him his deposition page by page, line by line. Otherwise, the I don't remembers took hold.

 

[TotallyObsessed]

So are you saying that the prosecution failed to refute the lies that CA/GA made on the stand because they screwed up, or that they had no evidence to refute these lies?

I am saying that the State was stuck with what they got on the stand. They had to all but impeach LA on the stand with his depositions. Same for Cindy. Same for George. All because of lies before the trial, or lies during the trial. Lies. And those lies played a huge part in why IT walked free. "hmmmm - George lied about that...he must be lying about killing his granddaughter"

 

[Intermezzo]

Never Never Never would FCA have accepted a plea. Never IMO.

Based on her past behavior, I agree

OCA refused the limited immunity deal that was offered in Aug/Sept 2008. Baez was the one to instigate this talk of a deal with the SA's Office.

Initially, she entered a plea of Not Guilty to check fraud even with concrete evidence against her...IIRC, she changed her plea to guilty the day of trial. With Andrea L and Baez by her side..

During the murder trial, she refused to even consider a Plea

 

[Intermezzo]

I think when GA showed up at JA's party he was clearly sending a message to someone (CA and/or FCA). He knew darn well that media would be at that party and that his appearance there would cause a stir.

Congrats to JA. I was up bright and early yesterday to throw my vote his way. I am so happy for him.

bbm
OCA and Baez perhaps?

 

[Desdemona]

NO LG - they weren't refuted at trial. They were lied about at trial. Both GA and CA got up on that stand saying what a great mother and daughter IT was. BS. They lied.

CA lied about searches....at trial.

GA lied about the gas can....at trial.

Many, many more "At trial" lies and obsfucation that helped set IT free. All done freely by GA and CA.

To add: It has been pointed out that the A family "had to" lie on the stand, to avoid perjuring themselves against the myriad lies in their earlier depositions and LE interviews already on the record, going back three years...

...Even to the point of the crazy backpedaling of CA on the stand, trying to distance herself from the "smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car" utterance on the fateful night of July 15, 2008.

IMO, we mustn't forget:

You don't mess with the Anthonys.
They will WIN.​

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0Is2OkLAWQ"]Cindy's Phone Call To Tim Miller - YouTube[/ame]

JMO