IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #19

[Bootsctr]

I would never be convinced they were not taken from the lake where the bikes were found, where the dogs tracked their scents.

I agree. They may have gone to the lake expecting to meet up with a certain someone, but when they were not at the lake... the skate park was the next destination. The girls could have been riding and circling the area of Gilbert Drive, Frans, Schons, Lake and Arbitus Avenue waiting for someone to show up at the skate park.... for example:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jIl2cWIu3E
Jul 9, 2011 - 2 min - Uploaded by SkateIslam
On a very hot July day me and mah boys do a little road Trippin'. Headed up to that Evansdale, Iowa ...

 

[SapphireSteel]

I thought the dogs always track from oldest to newest scent? As in freshest scent led the dogs away from the jetty and into the woods.

Grainne, your expertise would be very helpful. TIA!

Dogs naturally track oldest to newest.

However, if staging has occured, we can disregard the dogs.

Staging may well have included dragging items belonging to the girls around the path, in my opinion.

Contrary to what has been stated, LE said the dogs appeared to lead to the water, yet msm and the family said the appeared to lead to the wooded area.

Or the other way round.

:waitasec:

 

[Bootsctr]

Phil Muehl Memorial Skate Park

No Bathroom

Thank you for the picture. The girls would have wanted to have gotten off Gilbert ASAP because GMA might have driven on Gilbert to look for them.

 

[Considering]

I guess I forgot the roller skates, skate board, and ice skates.

And a Barbie jeep.


(SBM)

Is that what I think it is...???????????????..:floorlaugh:

:what: :noooo: :lol:

 

[nursebeeme]

yes, it would seem that they stuck by the 1215

Officials previously had reported only that the girls were last seen by their grandmother riding their bikes near the Collins home at about 12:15 p.m. http://www.press-citizen.com/articl...ils-released-last-sighting-missing-Iowa-girls

but I don't necessarily think the times on the camera changed..

I think they are narrowing their focus and have good reason to put out a more precise time to get more public feedback.

:moo:

yes, I believe as well that the sighting on gilbert between 1230 and 1300 could well be grass-water-man. It also fits with their normal pattern of behavior as this witness was quoted saying he saw them often riding down his street turning around and riding back.

:moo:

(I should be on a "got milk" poster with all these cows :lol

 

[Sunlight]

I want to begin on a positive note here by thanking Peeples for the great news link posted yesterday and thank our "Busy Bee Mod" for the fantastic map posted today! Well done.

With the news from yesterday, I was so hoping that the 12:23 time was a new sighting...and because the time was so exact, that it was from a video timestamp from a second business on Brovan. I was so hoping that in the "second video" the girls could be positively identified unlike the 1st one that is more of a guess.

I was thrilled to see the 12:30 time that was given by DCI was now being shown as being on Gilbert St., which made it appear, at least to me, that the 12:30 p.m. sighting was something strong...perhaps another video.

Okay...here're my negative thoughts: I now suspect that the 12:23 p.m., is that first video camera we already knew about behind the auction bldg that showed timestamp of 12:11. I've always thought the last sighting of 12:15 was a "splitting the difference" between timestamp of 12:11 and 12:19 which = 12:15, a much easier reference number to remember. [So how did that get to be 12:23 in yesterday's report? I think LE told office staff to write up press report using video time...possibly reminded staffer that actual video was 8 minutes slow and so staffer mistakenly added 8 minutes to the 12:15 she was hearing around the office all the time.]

I now think the 12:30 p.m. time on Gilbert St. is the sighting reported by RC who was out watering his yard July 13. [Per ABC reporter on July 17, RC who lives only blocks from the lake said he was watering his yard and saw the girls riding their bikes betw 12:00 and 1:00 p.m. I now fear that LE may have split the difference in the time range to 12:30.]

Somebody please tell me I'm wrong...

Probably right, however, it was posted that there were "several" sightings on Gilbert. So, RC is probably/possibly one (since he lives on the corner), but it seems there are others and LE is now suggesting they were in an area that includes Elmer Avenue and Arbutus. MOO

 

[nursebeeme]

Dogs naturally track oldest to newest.

However, if staging has occured, we can disregard the dogs.

Staging may well have included dragging items belonging to the girls around the path, in my opinion.

Contrary to what has been stated, LE said the dogs appeared to lead to the water, yet msm and the family said the appeared to lead to the wooded area.

Or the other way round.

:waitasec:

I will brb to link you our SAR thread. We have two verified SAR posters (sarx and Oriah)

From what I have learned from other cases they have posted on (esp that of Sierra Lamar) they track the freshest scent.

For example, Sierra Lamar was kidnapped walking to her bus. The dog was able to track how far down the road she went that particular morning because the dogs tracked the freshest scent. (the question had been posed to sarx: how could the dog track Sierra that morning if she walked to the bus every single day)



I will see if I can get one of them to stop by this thread as well to give some perspective.

 

[nursebeeme]

SAR question and answer thread

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125709&highlight=SAR+questions

 

[CN2Souls]

Yes it sure is what I thought it was....:what:

 

[SapphireSteel]

BBM

A mobility scooter!:floorlaugh:

Don't you remember the mobility scooter discussion?

I do...

 

[nursebeeme]

Saphire: here is one really good SAR post by Oriah on freshest scent:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - K9 SAR Questions & Answers - Ask the Pros!

 

[Reverie]

Dogs naturally track oldest to newest.

However, if staging has occured, we can disregard the dogs.

Staging may well have included dragging items belonging to the girls around the path, in my opinion.

Contrary to what has been stated, LE said the dogs appeared to lead to the water, yet msm and the family said the appeared to lead to the wooded area.

Or the other way round.

:waitasec:

Lol SapphireSteel.
Thanks for the clarification.

About your last point, I think it IS the other way round.

 

[Jax49]

Probably right, however, it was posted that there were "several" sightings on Gilbert. So, RC is probably/possibly one (since he lives on the corner), but it seems there are others and LE is now suggesting they were in an area that includes Elmer Avenue and Arbutus. MOO

I was searching for the reference to 'several people' while you were posting.

http://www.wxow.com/story/19544827/marking-two-months-since-elizabeth-lyric-disappeared

Thursday, they issued a plea for anyone who was in the Arbutus Avenue, Gilbert Drive, and Elmer Avenue areas on July 13th, and who may have seen the girls, to call police. Several witnesses reported seeing the cousins in this area between 12:30 and 1:00 that afternoon.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Don't you remember the mobility scooter discussion?

I do...

OMG, I've been here since day one and thought I'd read everything. Maybe I just skipped over it because it didn't make sense to me.

 

[Bootsctr]

Yes it sure is what I thought it was....:what:

Well, well, well...... it's that pretty bright yellow paddleboat right off Evans.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Nancy Grace and Jim Spellman re the dogs

Jim, I want to go back over what you just said. I`m learning something new right now, that scent dogs, after smelling in the little girls` shoes and their clothing, eliminating family members, started smelling at the bikes. And instead of going down into the water, which I don`t think that two little girls are going to go swimming in their clothes anyway -- but the dogs didn`t go towards the water, they went back toward the bike path?

SPELLMAN: They did, back towards the bike path, which ends in kind of a wooded area. Nancy, the way this lake is laid out, there`s a bike path that is sort of a U. And in the far corner of the U is where the girls` bikes were found.

Family re the dogs -

Family members said early Tuesday afternoon that dogs had tracked the scent of the girls to where their bicycles had been located on the southeast corner of Meyers Lake.

FBI on the dogs

In the Evansdale case, Breault said the dogs had indicated the girls’ scent was in the area near Meyers Lake.
“The scent did lead to the water, which is also where their bikes were found,” she said.

Spellman again -

SPELLMAN: That`s right, Nancy, out of the girls` shoes. Family members were lined up so that the dogs could eliminate their scent. They then followed the scent from where the girls` bikes were found. And we know that the dogs went not too far, but into a wooded area at the end, the terminus, of this bike path. And that`s as far as we know that the dogs got.

So....clear as mud.

 

[Bootsctr]

I wonder if the girls could have ridden their bikes at the skate park. My son was not into skateboards, but he had a BMX bike and we often took him to a skate park to ride his bike there. The local church also would take groups of kids, some had skateboards, others had their bikes. In fact, Lyric is about the same age as he when he took an interest in BMX. Little daredevil!

 

[Sunlight]

I wonder if the girls could have ridden their bikes at the skate park. My son was not into skateboards, but he had a BMX bike and we often took him to a skate park to ride his bike there. The local church also would take groups of kids, some had skateboards, others had their bikes. In fact, Lyric is about the same age as he when he took an interest in BMX. Little daredevil!

It's where the boys are too. At that age, my friends and I would go where the boys were...we were innocent, but we did have crushes on different boys, etc. E was very interested in doing what her older brother did or was into..the family talked about that in an interview. MOO

 

[nikb]

So, I'm probably as sick of the <censored> "white van" as everyone else, but I looked from different angles on one of the Bing maps. I remember a black truck being mentioned earlier too. Circled in red... yikes. What kind of vehicles are these? I wish these maps/overhead views were dated, or if they are I wish I knew out to find the date.

 

[nikb]

<snipped for space>

So....clear as mud.

Well at least we know definitely what the dogs did... :crazy: <sarcasm off>

Thanks for putting all these quotes together in one spot! It's hard when you know you heard something, sometime, but you weren't sure when or who said it. This helps a lot having all the quotes together.