CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #5

[FrayedKnot]

yes, it can...

but not normally (the pill interferes with different trigger chemicals normally secreted by your body: FSH which is follicle stimulating hormone and LH which is Lutienizing Hormone which to explain in general are like little chemical messengers that flip on the switch for ovulation)

why: (it usually doesn't however because the progesterone and other things in birth control usually prevent ovulation by tricking your body into thinking there is already a corpus luteum present that is secreting progesterone)

what happens with the corpus luteum in general is: it is kind of like a little mass of sticky yellow cells that hang around after you ovulate. If you happen to get pregnant (this is just for informational purposes only...NOT RELATING TO THIS CASE) the corpus luteum hangs out and secretes progesterone that sustains the pregnancy during the first few months.

that being said it could also be a corpus luteal cyst which can happen while on BC

We also don't know what kind of BC she was on... so who knows. There are a myriad of types with different mechanisms of action:

but with the corpus luteal body there I would say she just ovulated.

So does this mean that oral contraceptives don't necessarily prevent ovulation or even fertilization, but do prevent implantation?

Sorry for the kinda OT, that just piqued my interest!

 

[mysterygirl]

Is phenergan one of the drugs they were unable to verify an amount for?

Yes.

And with ami toxicity.......you are looking about up to 2 hrs based on all that I have read.

I've been reading about amitriptyline overdoses...........telltale signs.........ekg changes............time from overdose to code.........etc..

 

[fittzi]

I apologize if this has been discussed before. I just looked at the toxicology information posted as a sticky here on WS and noticed that she tested positive for Cotinine, which would indicate tobacco use. This seems somewhat contradictory to the picture of clean living Morgan that her mom has painted on the blog. I'm sure she wants to honor her daughter and show her in the most flattering light, but I can help but feel that there is information being withheld that would help us make a little more sense of things. JMO

 

[kimmie0313]

I apologize if this has been discussed prior- it's hard for me to have the time to keep up.

Ami was found in the gastric contents correct? Yet there were no pill fragments, also correct?

 

[mysterygirl]

http://lifeinthefastlane.com/2012/05/toxicology-conundrum-050/

Check this case out.

Amitrip. overdose........cool site.

 

[mysterygirl]

I apologize if this has been discussed prior- it's hard for me to have the time to keep up.

Ami was found in the gastric contents correct? Yet there were no pill fragments, also correct?

Correct.

Some argue that the pills had already dissolved.

I question whether we know it was even pills from her bottles of old scripts.

 

[AbbeyR]

I think it's a mistake to assume that M. would have acted in a certain way if she was going to commit suicide or that we can deduce her state of mind by considering what we might do in the same hypothetical situation. 'If I was going to kill myself, would I cancel my babysitting job? would I wear socks? would I say goodbye?' Who knows. Maybe the signs don't lead to a logical conclusion because suicide itself isn't necessarily the result of a logical process of thought.

 

[FrayedKnot]

haha. LOL

My kids even wear mismatched socks all the time. They say it's the style, I say it's b/c they are too lazy to match the socks together.

My Lil Knot and also my younger nieces who are very close to my daughter's age all do the crazy mismatched sock thing.

And I am inclined to agree that it's just laziness, lol! But I hate matching up socks, too, so.......

 

[FrayedKnot]

I went to school with a guy who hung himself using a blue sheet and dressed all in blue, presumably thinking he would turn blue, too. He hung himself in the garage so when the parents got home, they'd open the garage door and see him. Sometimes the "presentation" is a message in itself.

I got shudders reading this.

Didn't TI say M's body looked 'posed'?

.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

it could be indicative of one but not necessarily. He did not mention one present so to me it just signifies ovulation.

It could mean a cyst as well, but the ovaries were otherwise unremarkable along with the rest of the genitourinary portion of the post.

:twocents:

Here is the autopsy report ~
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8390401#post8390401"]****NO DISCUSSION****Morgan Ingram's Autopsy Report - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

Under MICROSCOPIC EXAMINATION it states, "A section of the right ovary incorporates a recent hemorrhagic corpus luteum."

Here is a link explaining 'hemorrhagic' corpus luteum ~
http://www.ovarian-cyst-symptoms.info/Corpus-Luteum-Cyst.html
Under CORPUS LUTEUM CYST SYMPTOMS and it states, "A hemorrhagic corpus luteum cyst results from excessive bleeding after rupture."

 

[SmoothOperator]

I apologize if this has been discussed before. I just looked at the toxicology information posted as a sticky here on WS and noticed that she tested positive for Cotinine, which would indicate tobacco use. This seems somewhat contradictory to the picture of clean living Morgan that her mom has painted on the blog. I'm sure she wants to honor her daughter and show her in the most flattering light, but I can help but feel that there is information being withheld that would help us make a little more sense of things. JMO

Imo yiu are likely not alone in your opinion that mom witheld this info and for reasons of painting her in a better light..but my question is when and where exatly is it that toni would have put this info into a blog post?

imo its very likely that Morgan when she did smoke it was not at home or anywhere around her parents(as is the case for the vast majority of young smokers would never smoke around parents)..so, with that in mind where exactly would it have been appropriate for Toni to post in her blog that Morgan may have smoked occassionaly or regularly but not around them so I cant understand why mom would have posted this detail..

Does that make sense?..i may not be explaining it correctly but imo I just see there as being zero cause for mom to have posted that morgan may have smoked on occassion(she didnt around them so why or how would mom even have specific knowledge of how often or when Mdid smoke)..imo she may have suspected such(aas many parents do) but if M did not ever smoke in front of them imo there is just no appropriate way to just shove that extraneous detail into a blog post..

So, in tgat sense i personally dont see it as in any way intentionally misleading or witholding important info..imo i see no appropriate opportunity for toni to have made mention of it..to my knowledge she has never in any way stated her daughter had never nor would ever have touched a single cigarette(tho I also realize in a parents mind this is excatly what they want and many times do believe)..but this particular detail imo isnt a detail that thus far would even come up as an important topic for a blog post..jmo.

 

[Snowball58]

I apologize if this has been discussed before. I just looked at the toxicology information posted as a sticky here on WS and noticed that she tested positive for Cotinine, which would indicate tobacco use. This seems somewhat contradictory to the picture of clean living Morgan that her mom has painted on the blog. I'm sure she wants to honor her daughter and show her in the most flattering light, but I can help but feel that there is information being withheld that would help us make a little more sense of things. JMO

Could the levels be the result of second hand smoke?

 

[browntabby1226]

Lets say she took the drugs herself.
1 She got them (drugs) from someone or from multiple people so someone must know something.Why aren't they coming forward.
2 By not coming forward did they know the intention?
3 Do the parents know all her friends? Teens do keep secrets from parents.
4 Did she see a Dr. the parents didn't know about.
5 If she was covered under Insurance maybe look there for Drs and RX.Also pharmacys.
These are just thoughts of mine.

 

[nursebeeme]

So does this mean that oral contraceptives don't necessarily prevent ovulation or even fertilization, but do prevent implantation?

Sorry for the kinda OT, that just piqued my interest!

depends what type you are on


also, woe just posted the info on the cyst. Yes it could be a cyst: that being said she had a corpus Luteum which mean one was formed (LH is the chemical messenger that turns on this formation and bc normally stops this process)

that being said we really don't know if she was currently taking birth control, what kind, or if it was a cyst or not. all we know is there was a corpus luteum in her rt ovary that was hemorrhagic and the exam was otherwise unremarkable.

 

[mysterygirl]

From what I can find it is tablets (as far as what would come in pill bottles). I can't find capsules. But I am not in the medical field, so IDK.

Yes it's tablets. I interchange pill /tab when speaking in general terms.

 

[mysterygirl]

Could the levels be the result of second hand smoke?

I was wondering that myself.

But I can't count how many times I've seen non smokers take a puff or two when socializing.

 

[fittzi]

Imo yiu are likely not alone in your opinion that mom witheld this info and for reasons of painting her in a better light..but my question is when and where exatly is it that toni would have put this info into a blog post?

I see your point; however:

1) If mom was aware of tobacco use, yet takes a strong stance about there being NO WAY M ingested medications and her clean lifestyle, this would be a bit of a contradiction.

2) If mom was NOT aware of the tobacco use, this begs the question "what else was she unaware of"? If she was smoking on the sly she could very well have been engaging in other unhealthy activities under mom's radar that could have played a part in her untimely demise.

 

[SmoothOperator]

I think it's a mistake to assume that M. would have acted in a certain way if she was going to commit suicide or that we can deduce her state of mind by considering what we might do in the same hypothetical situation. 'If I was going to kill myself, would I cancel my babysitting job? would I wear socks? would I say goodbye?' Who knows. Maybe the signs don't lead to a logical conclusion because suicide itself isn't necessarily the result of a logical process of thought.

Imo speaking for myself only its not at all about looking at one factor such as certain actions/behaviors..if it were just one or two factors that seemed to be contradictory then imo I wouldnt be questioning it possibly being something other than suicide(and note I personally am not of the mindset that suicide is NOT a possibility..imo of course it is)..its that there are many factors/pieces that dont at all correlate with suicide...and its those many factors together that imo have several of us still looking at other possibilities than just that of suicide..again suicide for me is possible..as are other possibilities as well..no, suicide is not a logical action therefor not likely going to make perfect logical sense to most "normal" individuals ..but so, too is stalking and murder both illogical and not likely to fit and make perfect logical sense to "normal" individuals, either..

For me at this point in time with there still being an incomplete account it still has too many indicators that "could" point to something other than suicide..i suspect that when we have the complete information that most of us will have a better, firmer stance on what our opinion is on Morgans death..but for now too much to ignore that suicide is not a certain known fact..(not to mention that the ME quite obviously was none too convinced of suicide for over half of a year after her death in his NOT HAVING SUICIDE AS HER MOD)..jmo

 

[SmoothOperator]

I see your point; however:

1) If mom was aware of tobacco use, yet takes a strong stance about there being NO WAY M ingested medications and her clean lifestyle, this would be a bit of a contradiction.

2) If mom was NOT aware of the tobacco use, this begs the question "what else was she unaware of"? If she was smoking on the sly she could very well have been engaging in other unhealthy activities under mom's radar that could have played a part in her untimely demise.

Point taken and I totally agree with #2 being a possibility and quite frankly a probability to some degree in that imo all parents of 20 year olds are NOT EVER AWARE OF EVERYTHING THEIR ADULT CHILD DOES..even tho, I know most parents like to believe otherwise..jmo.

 

[fittzi]

Could the levels be the result of second hand smoke?

My understanding is that it could, but the report doesn't include actual level so I don't think there is any way to determine if that's the case. I'm pretty sure that there is a threshold at which it becomes clear that someone is an active smoker. (I'm in HR, so I'm familiar with the test, but not really familiar with how to interpret the results.)