GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #4

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They can't divorce...only if there's been adultery committed.

They certainly can divorce. They can go down to the Multnomah County Courthouse and file the papers just like anyone else. The leaders in his church may not like it, but since when does a murder/rapist/once in awhile church attendee care what his church leaders think?
 
Regarding the white vehicle. I wonder if perhaps the accounting of the white vehicle isn't similar to the other vehicle mentioned where they wanted to ask the driver if they noticed anything when they were there at the same time as WH's vehicle being left there. It's a stretch, but I *seriously* do not get ANYTHING that would indicate he acted with someone. I think perhaps it was noted as part of the 'scene', as was the other gentleman who was there in the parking lot, or that it was coincidence.

I don't have any indication there was an accomplice either. I guess it being mentioned in the report just had me wondering the significance. Probably just an observation though and maybe someone LE would want to talk to.
 
I saw a picture of Whitney's SUV very early in the case where the back liftgate was open and you could see into the back of the vehicle. Don't ask me to find that picture because I just don't remember where I saw it, but it was a photo taken pre-murder. I noticed that there was at least one tub of items in the back of the car. I suspect Whitney carried a lot of stuff around all the time. She probably had an emergency blanket, cleaning supplies, who knows what? I keep a blanket and other supplies in case of an emergency. She might have had a bottle of febreeze in there already for when she cleans out her car. She may have had a sheet there from sometime when she carried something dirty and didn't want to mess up her car. I think JH actually *is* stupid enough to think spraying some febreeze around would cover the odor of blood temporarily. At least long enough for him to dump the car and get away from the smell of death.

I have that picture (saved it as I thought it was her car, and even tried to blow up for a rear license plate view)--but it's not her car. It's one of the inspector's, I guess. It looks like her car--until you note that the metal wheels are different pattern (her metal wheels have teardrop shaped hole; this car had rectangular radiating pattern). Also, that car with the open back liftgate has no ridge on top like her car did.

So similar I didn't realize it wasn't her car until the next day, though.
 
They certainly can divorce. They can go down to the Multnomah County Courthouse and file the papers just like anyone else. The leaders in his church may not like it, but since when does a murder/rapist/once in awhile church attendee care what his church leaders think?

His wife can't do it I'm sure. And although he was a sometime "attendee", it doesn't mean that some of those teachings didn't stay with him. Then too, maybe he's hoping his bretheran can help him in some way.
 
His wife can't do it I'm sure. And although he was a sometime "attendee", it doesn't mean that some of those teachings didn't stay with him. Then too, maybe he's hoping his bretheran can help him in some way.

just wondering: why does the perp's religion matter? From what I am reading right now today he admitted to downloading child *advertiser censored* and investigators were on him for days. He also broke into Whitney's apartment before and stole a phone.

This guy is just one sick human being and the only help he is going to get is from maybe a prison psychologist if he is lucky

http://www.nwcn.com/news/northwest/176129941.html
 
If I was AH.. I wouldn't care what my religion said. The day I found out my husband murdered someone....I'd have myself an attorney.

No one, including "God", is going to tell me I can't divorce him.

MOO
 
His wife can't do it I'm sure. And although he was a sometime "attendee", it doesn't mean that some of those teachings didn't stay with him. Then too, maybe he's hoping his bretheran can help him in some way.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the bolded part. Anybody can divorce if they want for any reason they want. Oregon is a no-fault divorce state.

Perhaps you mean she cannot and still stay in the good graces of her church leaders? I simply cannot imagine any Christian faith that would expect a woman to stay married to a man who has done all the things JH has admitted to. I really cannot believe the JW faith would expect her to "stand by her man" under the circumstances. I am more inclined to believe they would be helping her get a divorce attorney as soon as possible.
 
His wife can't do it I'm sure. And although he was a sometime "attendee", it doesn't mean that some of those teachings didn't stay with him. Then too, maybe he's hoping his bretheran can help him in some way.

His wife can divorce him just the same as any other person.
 
this from the Watchtower:

"Sometimes there are those who get divorced for what we refer to as "unscriptural reasons," that is for incompatability or some other reason. Separation (not divorce) is permitted among Jehovah's Witnesses in extreme cases such as willfull non-support by the husband, physical abuse, some other similar reasons. See: 1 Corinthians 7:12-15.

If a mate commits adultery, then, divorce is permitted.
At the same time, sometimes, like it would seem with your niece, she might get a divorce when there was no adultery. It is possible that she and her husband find it impossible to live together peacable due to his emotional or mental state. Or he might be somewhat violent as is the case with some who are diagnosed with bipolar disorder.

Some among Jehovah's Witnesses might not follow the Bible's guidelines to the letter, or might not accept counsel and encouragement, but, if they haven't committed any serious sin, such as in 1 Cor 6:9,10, might not have privileges in the congregation, but can still be a part of the congregation. "

I think you are really reaching to try to blame his religion on him killing Whitney, he didn't respect God's laws by viewing *advertiser censored*, killing, lying about being mugged, etc do you honestly think that he would give two hoots about getting an unscriptural divorce? Absolutely preposterous.
 
“Absolutely preposterous” – I agree, to you and me and to probably most if not all here (and thank goodness for that!) – but would it have been absolutely preposterous to JH?
 
They can't divorce...only if there's been adultery committed.
They can't commit murder either. So, of the two options divorce would have been the lesser of two evils.
 
Originally Posted by peace9274
BBM

IMOO, there's too much bloviating about the can of Fabreze.

Touche'!! ;)

Exactly.

Unless the car reeked like "Mediterranean Lavender" or "Apple Spice & Delight" or somesuch – and I'm assuming it did not because this empirical evidence was not mentioned in the affidavit – she had it in her car, he picked it up, tossed it aside, LE got a print.

Or, Proctor & Gamble has a new Febreze product on the market (Wanna get away with murder? Just use Febreze Crime Scene Clean-up) and Holt picked up a bottle and packed it along with the rest of his gear including a gun, probably some zip ties, and a couple Four Lokos.
 
“Absolutely preposterous” – I agree, to you and me and to probably most if not all here (and thank goodness for that!) – but would it have been absolutely preposterous to JH?

If he was wanting a divorce so badly, why did he keep expressing anxiety about both losing his job and his wife? Why was he afraid to talk to his wife and tell her the story about him being "robbed"? I think they had a lot of problems in their marriage --- both of their statements testify readily to that --- but I don't think that either of them necessarily wanted out of the relationship at that point. I think he was walking around feeling like a freak, I think he felt guilty about his *advertiser censored* behavior, I think he was upset about his wife feeling "abandoned", but I think he lacked the capacity to understand his own role in that other than to feel beaten down by what likely felt to him as a mess beyond his control. I think that he didn't know how to change or even that he felt like he could change. I think that his behavior and the wall of non-communication in the way he treated his wife resulted in her constantly being thrusted into a parental role with him, including her being forced into a breadwinner role, and that is why he couldn't face her with his outright lie about being "robbed", or even be able to sustain non-sexual intimacy in their relationship. She stated many times that he was "secretive" and would "take off"... in a healthy relationship, partners are able to talk about their problems and work on finding solutions together. It sounds like she was attempting to talk to him, but he worked hard at maintaining a barrier between the two of them that was leading to a relationship breakdown.

I think he both created the chasm between the two of them and was suffering from it as well. It seems like he had genuine and clear ideas about how he should be living, but there was a dramatic difference between the ideal and how he was actually living. I think he wanted to be a "normal"... so he got married, but I don't think he knew what to do once he got there, obviously. And that's a dangerous place to be, because at some point, I think, his behavior crossed a line from obsessive to outright dangerously pathological and this eventually led to what he did to Whitney. I really wouldn't be surprised to find out that he'd seen prostitutes before, though, perhaps even to the point of abusing or raping them.

So I think he knew he was becoming a screw-up, and he knew that he was living a lie, and he knew that his *advertiser censored* obsession made him, at the very least, a hypocrite as a Christian of any stripe, and I think that knowledge made him a little nuts, too. I'm thinking at some point, his relationship with his wife became little more to him than a cover for what he was doing behind the scenes. He was trying, and eventually, failing, to lead a double-life. I think his wife's characterization of him as someone who "freaks out" and "can't deal" is spot-on. Unfortunately, nobody saw what he was doing as warning signs of something worse to come, or had enough knowledge of what he was doing to notice warning signs.

I really don't think this was all some sort of underhanded attempt to get a divorce. I really don't. I think that his ties to his religion were tenuous at best, and as he became more obsessive/secretive/pathological, I think the only reason he stayed involved with the church was because of his wife. I think if divorce was his real motivation, he would have just gone and done it.
 
just wondering: why does the perp's religion matter? From what I am reading right now today he admitted to downloading child *advertiser censored* and investigators were on him for days. He also broke into Whitney's apartment before and stole a phone.

This guy is just one sick human being and the only help he is going to get is from maybe a prison psychologist if he is lucky

http://www.nwcn.com/news/northwest/176129941.html

It doesn't matter....we're just trying to figure out why he didn't just divorce instead of all this. I don't think he figured it would end up like this. I do not believe he woke that morning and decide that he kill her. I think he thought he would have his way with her, but I don't think he had her killing in mind.
 
If he was wanting a divorce so badly, why did he keep expressing anxiety about both losing his job and his wife? Why was he afraid to talk to his wife and tell her the story about him being "robbed"? I think they had a lot of problems in their marriage --- both of their statements testify readily to that --- but I don't think that either of them necessarily wanted out of the relationship at that point. I think he was walking around feeling like a freak, I think he felt guilty about his *advertiser censored* behavior, I think he was upset about his wife feeling "abandoned", but I think he lacked the capacity to understand his own role in that other than to feel beaten down by what likely felt to him as a mess beyond his control. I think that he didn't know how to change or even that he felt like he could change. I think that his behavior and the wall of non-communication in the way he treated his wife resulted in her constantly being thrusted into a parental role with him, including her being forced into a breadwinner role, and that is why he couldn't face her with his outright lie about being "robbed", or even be able to sustain non-sexual intimacy in their relationship. She stated many times that he was "secretive" and would "take off"... in a healthy relationship, partners are able to talk about their problems and work on finding solutions together. It sounds like she was attempting to talk to him, but he worked hard at maintaining a barrier between the two of them that was leading to a relationship breakdown.

I think he both created the chasm between the two of them and was suffering from it as well. It seems like he had genuine and clear ideas about how he should be living, but there was a dramatic difference between the ideal and how he was actually living. I think he wanted to be a "normal"... so he got married, but I don't think he knew what to do once he got there, obviously. And that's a dangerous place to be, because at some point, I think, his behavior crossed a line from obsessive to outright dangerously pathological and this eventually led to what he did to Whitney. I really wouldn't be surprised to find out that he'd seen prostitutes before, though, perhaps even to the point of abusing or raping them.

So I think he knew he was becoming a screw-up, and he knew that he was living a lie, and he knew that his *advertiser censored* obsession made him, at the very least, a hypocrite as a Christian of any stripe, and I think that knowledge made him a little nuts, too. I'm thinking at some point, his relationship with his wife became little more to him than a cover for what he was doing behind the scenes. He was trying, and eventually, failing, to lead a double-life. I think his wife's characterization of him as someone who "freaks out" and "can't deal" is spot-on. Unfortunately, nobody saw what he was doing as warning signs of something worse to come, or had enough knowledge of what he was doing to notice warning signs.

I really don't think this was all some sort of underhanded attempt to get a divorce. I really don't. I think that his ties to his religion were tenuous at best, and as he became more obsessive/secretive/pathological, I think the only reason he stayed involved with the church was because of his wife. I think if divorce was his real motivation, he would have just gone and done it.

Great post – thank you!

BBM – IIRC, those expressions of anxiety about losing his job and wife were expressed along with the story of the “robbers” prior to having confessed to the murder. I think he was still banking on his being a-victim-of-“robbers”-story working at that point.

Re why JH was reluctant to tell his wife the “robbers” story: IDK – hard to say, maybe he had intended to tell her something else or just a smidge of the story since it sounds like he probably believed that she likely wouldn’t believe him anyway due to his past behavior. He was forced by the friend to tell AH at least as much as JH told the friends about the "robbers".

I agree – it sounds like JH/AH had a lot of problems in their young marriage.

I hope at some point we’ll hear more from AH that can help fill in some of the many blanks about JH and this devastatingly senseless crime.
 
I still have not heard/seen/read if JH and AH have a child/children. I hope that they do not -- for many reasons. I do remember a reference to a picture with kids' outdoor furniture on their patio; however there has not been any further info I've seen on this.

My heart just aches for AH. I hope she can heal and move forward.

My heart also aches for CH, and I wish all the best for him.

Even with all the information released there are still so many questions -- and such pain. I totally admire how the family has been handling all of this. My thoughts and prayers are with all of them and with AH.

Source: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/whitney-heichels-husband-interview-difficult-17532855

Pause at 1:06 - motorcycle on patio, two helmets on what appears to be a child's table with child chairs. *This does not mean the Holts have children; it means this is a shot of his (presumably) motorcycle on the back porch (aka patio) with two helmets on a child's table. Affidavit pg 36: "Amanda Holt told them Jonathan had been keeping the motorcycle on their back porch to keep it dry."
 
this from the Watchtower:

"Sometimes there are those who get divorced for what we refer to as "unscriptural reasons," that is for incompatability or some other reason. Separation (not divorce) is permitted among Jehovah's Witnesses in extreme cases such as willfull non-support by the husband, physical abuse, some other similar reasons. See: 1 Corinthians 7:12-15.

If a mate commits adultery, then, divorce is permitted.
At the same time, sometimes, like it would seem with your niece, she might get a divorce when there was no adultery. It is possible that she and her husband find it impossible to live together peacable due to his emotional or mental state. Or he might be somewhat violent as is the case with some who are diagnosed with bipolar disorder.

Some among Jehovah's Witnesses might not follow the Bible's guidelines to the letter, or might not accept counsel and encouragement, but, if they haven't committed any serious sin, such as in 1 Cor 6:9,10, might not have privileges in the congregation, but can still be a part of the congregation. "

Do you have a link? Also, who's the niece/bipolar person referenced? and, as that last portion you have quoted
"Some among Jehovah's Witnesses might not follow the Bible's guidelines to the letter, or might not accept counsel and encouragement, but, if they haven't committed any serious sin, such as in 1 Cor 6:9,10, might not have privileges in the congregation, but can still be a part of the congregation.",
says, he could have absolutely filed for divorce, he would not have been 'shunned' he would not have been 'disfellowshipped' for it--now, for kiddy *advertiser censored*? stalking? rape? murder?? certainly that would be a reason to not be part of the congregation, but he NOR his wife would be found 'unfit' to be part of the congregation just for divorcing.

Scriptural grounds for divorce come into play when one starts looking for a new mate.

and as for this part you said:

His wife can't do it I'm sure. And although he was a sometime "attendee", it doesn't mean that some of those teachings didn't stay with him. Then too, maybe he's hoping his bretheran can help him in some way.

I am not sure why you have inferred this, whether you have misinterpreted or been misinformed, but there is not reason 'his wife can't do it', so I am curious as to how you are 'sure'.

Edit to add:
AND I can say,as an active member of the Jehovah's Witnesses religion *NO ONE* would, in ANY way shun her for any of this...and I think it's apparent from the statements released in support of her, as well as CH's support of her.
 
I think you are really reaching to try to blame his religion on him killing Whitney, he didn't respect God's laws by viewing *advertiser censored*, killing, lying about being mugged, etc do you honestly think that he would give two hoots about getting an unscriptural divorce? Absolutely preposterous.

just wanted to reiterate this, lol.

I seriously am baffled by the whole "lets blame his religion", "Let's blame Clint", "lets blame the LE and some kind of conspiracy theory"...
 
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