GUILTY Yoselyn Ortega charged with 2 counts ea-1st and 2nd Degree Murder of Krim Children

[georgiagirl]

Where is Songline? I would like to ask her if Leo was sleeping in his stroller when they were in the elevator together...

 

[Hickory Born]

I'm sorry, maybe this is just an Eastern thing. Why isn't a burial mentioned? When I think of memorial, I think of a wake, which is a gathering of the family to view the body or just visit together before the actual burial, which usually takes place the next day after a separate, more formal service.

The burial could be private or they might hold the ashes in their home. IMO more people today are having bodies cremated.

 

[TexasCharm]

I still suspect they will take them to CA to bury them ... privately.

 

[mck16]

I still suspect they will take them to CA to bury them ... privately.

Whatever they do it should be completely private. They will have hell in the months to come with a trial, press, and experiencing the total loss of their two other children. I really hope they are left alone as much as possible. I can't imagine what they are going through. jmo

 

[JBean]

Hi Guys. I have removed the link to the Nanny support FB page a couple times now- please don't repost it anymore.
We don't want to drive traffic or give airtime to trollish websites like that.

 

[jennapuppy]

I'm sorry, maybe this is just an Eastern thing. Why isn't a burial mentioned? When I think of memorial, I think of a wake, which is a gathering of the family to view the body or just visit together before the actual burial, which usually takes place the next day after a separate, more formal service.

Do we know for sure that the ME has completed the autopsy and released the bodies to the family? I don't know if there was a delay in that, due to the storm.

 

[JodyMT]

Do we know for sure that the ME has completed the autopsy and released the bodies to the family? I don't know if there was a delay in that, due to the storm.

I am pretty sure the autopsy has been completed and the bodies released to the family. So sad just typing that.

 

[Hopeful One]

It makes me sick that YO is telling LE that she and Marina weren't getting along, that they had a fight, that Marina didn't treat her well. Even if that were true, that is NO EXCUSE to murder those babies.

I just feel bad that MK may have to hear this crap, that she may be beating herself up thinking, "If I just hadn't said that to her, if I hadn't asked her to do more, if we had paid her more... maybe this never would have happened."

It's so unfair. :furious:

 

[jennapuppy]

Is there an official report regarding YO's self-inflicted stab wounds? I've heard it described as "hacking" her throat, and elsewhere as "slicing" her throat. I'm not sure if she was trying to kill herself, or if it was just an act of desperation at being caught red-handed by Marina.

 

[feddup]

Where is Songline? I would like to ask her if Leo was sleeping in his stroller when they were in the elevator together...

She said he was in his stroller I don't think he was asleep.

 

[Hopeful One]

I'm sorry, maybe this is just an Eastern thing. Why isn't a burial mentioned? When I think of memorial, I think of a wake, which is a gathering of the family to view the body or just visit together before the actual burial, which usually takes place the next day after a separate, more formal service.

Sometimes a memorial is separate from a funeral/burial. Especially since this story got nationwide attention, this may have been more of a public memorial, with something smaller and more private planned later.

 

[feddup]

Is there an official report regarding YO's self-inflicted stab wounds? I've heard it described as "hacking" her throat, and elsewhere as "slicing" her throat. I'm not sure if she was trying to kill herself, or if it was just an act of desperation at being caught red-handed by Marina.

If she had to be intubated I think it was pretty serious

 

[Hickory Born]

It makes me sick that YO is telling LE that she and Marina weren't getting along, that they had a fight, that Marina didn't treat her well. Even if that were true, that is NO EXCUSE to murder those babies.

I just feel bad that MK may have to hear this crap, that she may be beating herself up thinking, "If I just hadn't said that to her, if I hadn't asked her to do more, if we had paid her more... maybe this never would have happened."

It's so unfair. :furious:

I have been thinking along these same lines..."If only". IMO, with counseling she will be able to move forward.

 

[mikeysmommom]

I have been following since this happened and then Sandy happened and I could not get here.This is such a tragic loss of two beautiful children,IMO just because they were born to well off parents and that is just horrendous to me. I am so sorry this tragedy has touched our own Songline as well. I for one can not imagine the tears being able to stop if I had come into contact with these two angels just a mere 30 minutes before their deaths,how horrible to be that close to that evil woman and not even be able to see the evil within her.That would shake me to my core. I hope she is okay.

 

[JodyMT]

It makes me sick that YO is telling LE that she and Marina weren't getting along, that they had a fight, that Marina didn't treat her well. Even if that were true, that is NO EXCUSE to murder those babies.

I just feel bad that MK may have to hear this crap, that she may be beating herself up thinking, "If I just hadn't said that to her, if I hadn't asked her to do more, if we had paid her more... maybe this never would have happened."

It's so unfair. :furious:

That's just it, unless the cops directly asked her if she was getting along with the parents, why else would she offer up the fact that she wasn't getting along with the mother and resented her, unless she was using that as an excuse for killing the kids.

If she was using that as an excuse, I can only imagine what the cop was thinking when she said it.

 

[suzet]

Well, today's thoughts, just my opinions.

I'm not sure, but I don't think nanny expected mom to come home so soon. I suppose it depends on what she had in mind. I also don't think nanny originally ever intended on committing suicide, but only attempted it, after being caught.

I think either of these plans/scenarios could have been what nanny had in mind and I realize some or all of the scenarios have holes in them, but other folks here have had some of these same ideas.

Here goes:

a) maybe nanny was planning to make it look like an intruder did this and maybe had planned on performing a few self inflicted wounds for realism, (thus two knives) but maybe when mom walked in sooner than expected, nanny panicked and out of desperation of being caught, she started violently stabbing herself because she knew her plan was blown and she was caught.

b) maybe nanny planned on actually attacking mom and possibly the other child at some point after mom discovered the bodies but mom's screams and hysteria were so profound upon discovering her children, that nanny instead, stabbed herself because she knew others could hear all this and her plan was blown and she was caught.

c) or maybe nanny just wanted to hurt mom and dad so very badly that she could only think of murdering those kids and didn't think of much beyond that rage... but when mom entered the apartment and discovered her children, I think mom's reaction might have scared or shocked the nanny and she panicked and tried to kill herself.

All this is confusing me, even writing it.... bear with me...

d) same scenario as plan b where nanny planned on hurting mom and possibly third child, once she came home, except that when mom opened the door to check things out and then LEFT to go talk to the doorman, nanny might have panicked because she didn't expect mom to leave the apartment right then and she thought mom was going to get someone else to come back inside the apartment with her and nanny would be outnumbered.... (and caught).... so for a few minutes (and these minutes are, to me, so incredibly sick and eerie) from the time mom first entered the apartment and then went down to talk briefly with the door man, til the time mom entered the apartment again for the last time, nanny lost her nerve to try finish the job, since afterall, mom was no helpless child, or nanny was in such a state of panic for fear of being caught, that her only thought was to flee, but mom's screams made that impossible, so nanny tried to kill herself, knowing she was caught.

e) and for my least likely scenario.... please no flames.... nanny murdered those children and when mom came home, there was a struggle and mom fought for her life and for the life of her remaining child and then they fled for their lives.... There have never been any reports of mom having looked like she had been in a struggle though and from what I read, she was too hysterical to have even been able to defend herself, in my humble opinion. I'm sure LE already knows the facts, if mom was somehow able to even talk about it or even remember it since she was likely in shock. I do not believe this is what happened, but there are certain things that don't add up in my head, based only on what I have read in the media (surprise surprise), so thought I would add it on.
**************

There is no doubt in most of our minds what the nanny did do, but like others have said, I guess some of us can't help but wonder how she originally intended on carrying this out. Or maybe it was just as sick and simple as plan c.

And as a final thought.... If nanny intended on doing them all in, mother and three children, she might have thought she could get away with it if she had done the killing, cleaned herself up, staged the apartment, and then casually left the apartment just as casually as she rode up the elevator for the very last time with the two children she was about to kill. No one would suspect her ...(she would think)...dad was conveniently out of town, on an airplane 30,000 feet in the air, due back in a few hours before he would discover them. Trouble with that plan is it would not have taken LE very long to figure out that the nanny did it. But killers always think they're so clever, don't they?

 

[KALI]

I too think she was caught off guard by mom coming back early. What an evil person she is!

 

[gitana1]

That is not necessarily true, some crimminals are idiots and do just blurt out things...based on info regarding YO, I can see her doing so, since IMO, she felt justified in her actions. Not to mention, given YO is in the hospital, I would doubt the LE were to aggressive with her, plus not all LE are aggressive, guess for people who committ crimes it may seem so, not saying it doesnt ever happen tho think less than portraited.

I'm confused. You used the word "aggressive" twice. When did I suggest that LE angrily or aggressively questioned this woman?

That's just it, unless the cops directly asked her if she was getting along with the parents, why else would she offer up the fact that she wasn't getting along with the mother and resented her, unless she was using that as an excuse for killing the kids.

If she was using that as an excuse, I can only imagine what the cop was thinking when she said it.

Well, of course they would ask her directly if she was getting along with the Krims. Of course they would.

Has no one but me watched LE questioning/interrogation videos? They start by asking various questions of the suspect: "Are you having any marital problems", for example, in cases of a missing spouse or murdered spouse. That's pretty much the very first type of question they ask.

In a situation like this, one of the first things, logically, that they would ask is if there were any problems with the Krims, if she was having problems, were there any fights, etc.

They would also ask if she had been seeing a doctor, had she ever been diagnosed with a mental disorder, etc. But the answers to those questions would never be leaked.

They essentially ask tons of leading questions, trying gently to draw the suspect out, to find a reason for the crime (or in cases where they don't have such conclusive evidence, something that could point to motivation). They try to get the suspect to feel they sympathize. I'm sure they also asked questions like, "Hey, we all have those days when the kids just won't behave and are acting like brats. Sometimes you just want to strangle them. I fully understand if you were having one of those days. Is that what happened?"

In any event, I need more support for what has been leaked before I can jump to the conclusion that this woman is sitting there, stoically and angrily justified in what she did against her "rich" employers, and their precious children, because she was enraged by not being able to sit on a couch doing nothing for three hours each day. That's just nonsensical to me. I know it is a good picture because it makes it so easy to vent our rage on the target if we can view her as 100% diabolical, with no redeeming features and no issues other than some odd class issue that keeps being brought up which just doesn't make sense to me.

The fact that she murdered two kids is enough for me.

Marina writes about the two girls going to school..which allows her three wonderful hours to play with Leo. So what was YO doing at this point in the day? Did she expect to just lay on the sofa, relaxing?

If she was being paid by the week for so many hours, did YO think she should take a bubble bath and paint her nails....and become incensed that she might be asked to tidy up as SHE WAS PAID for those hours?

The apartment looks like it was designed to be child friendly. Nothing pretentious. The kids have big cardboard boxes in one room...having a joyous time. Marina was obviously hands on. The girls went to school for part of the day. Mom took them to lessons in various places. I wonder howoften YO even had all three kids?

As Nanny jobs go, this one sounds more than fair. Unless you hire an entitled narcissist who thinks SHE should get something for nothing. She EXPECTED a handout...not a hand up.

And she STILL thinks she has a legitimate case to make!!!! Maybe she expected the police to say.."OH! you slit the babies' throats because the Mother made you tidy up and then didn't say goodbye? Oh, alrighty then. YOU ARE THE REAL VICTIM. Take this Lovely lady home in a cab...and lets take up a collection to pay off her debts."

Speaking of class issues, why does this keep being brought up? Because when we jump out of thin air to the motivation for the murders of Lulu and Leo being that this woman wanted to sit around doing nothing for half the day, that she thought she should get something for nothing and that she expected a handout, it really become a class issue argument, IMO.
If not, well, the woman who stabbed her son and his playmate to death in Chicago a couple days later (along with the family dogs) isn't being accused of doing so due to monetary envy.

And does everyone realize how many nannies there are in this country? And how many of those are lower income peoples? Or immigrants? And that virtually none of them believe they are entitled to sit on a couch half the day? Or feel a seething rage because their employers have more than them, such that they want to kill someone? I mean, the way I'm reading it here, it's just perfectly reasonable to imagine a class of immigrant domestics seething with a sense of entitlement and rage just waiting to harm their long suffering employers. Come on.

I feel confident in saying that 95% of domestics caring for children are insanely hard workers who are simply glad for the opportunity to work and earn money. Oh and immigrants from developing world countries are the farthest thing from entitled or lazy. I'm just so confused where this is coming from.

We are coming to some pretty definite conclusions here about what she felt with very little and with contradictory information. I base my opinions on the nature of this case (the stabbing of two little kids by their nanny who reports stated was having mental and financial issues and changing in appearance) compared to thousands of others. Not on selectively leaked "facts" that tend to prey on our collective, historic worst fears about a large, murderous underclass.

The contradictory statements make me less confident in the reality of anything yet, BTW. Just a week ago, this woman was reported as awake and talking, asking for a lawyer and refusing to speak to police. Now we find that she was just removed from intubation (thus could not speak before) and spoke to police freely. Which is it?

In addition, some of the "facts" seem nonsensical to me. I can't picture Ms. Krim having a huge fight with this woman and then leaving her kids with the same woman. I just don't believe it happened. Most people who have that kind of altercation with their nanny, fire them immediately.

I see no evidence other than that the Krims were close to this woman, treated her well and that there were no signs to them that the woman was dissatisfied. In fact, as I've stated before, I really don;t believe this woman was dissatisfied in her work. IMO, something else was at play:

And a friend of Ms. Ortega recalled how fondly that she would speak of the Krims, saying she was well paid and treated decently. Ms. Ortega said she happily put in extra hours to help Ms. Krim whenever she needed it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/06/n...y-resented-her-employers-police-say.html?_r=0

That being said, if police reports, or official statements from the police, interrogation/questioning videos or transcripts come out and show a secretly vindictive woman who was attempting to kill the kids to harm the mother and then pretend someone else did it, but was caught so she tried to cut off her own head, or whatever, then, I am open to changing my opinion. No doubt. For now, however, I maintain my opinion that it was not laziness and greed that made her savagely butcher two, beautiful babies.:waitasec: I guess we will see.

http://lululeomemorial.tumblr.com/

link

Wow. This broke my heart. The video of the teacher playing Daughter and then the pastor speaking. The stage set up with flowers and art. You could tell the pastor was very shook up. The whole thing was just heartbreaking. Every day I have more respect for the Krims and how they have managed to continue on and plan such a lovely tribute to their kids and to think of others at such a time. The horror of their children's murder is incredible. It is awe-inspiring to see that they are managing to survive.

 

[SideKick]

Wow. This broke my heart. The video of the teacher playing Daughter and then the pastor speaking. The stage set up with flowers and art. You could tell the pastor was very shook up. The whole thing was just heartbreaking. Every day I have more respect for the Krims and how they have managed to continue on and plan such a lovely tribute to their kids and to think of others at such a time. The horror of their children's murder is incredible. It is awe-inspiring to see that they are managing to survive.[/QUOTE]



*Sigh with a few tears... Ok that did it for me, my daughter's father and daughter dance for her wedding was 'Daught'er by Loudon Wainwright III. Such a gorgeous song!



This is so unimaginable, if the Nanny was so miffed about her job, move on..... We all live in a world of BMW's, huge monsterous homes, if we don't have them, we don't go around messing up everyone else's world. I know it sounds silly but the Nanny must have had some serious mental flips going on. We all have 'stuff' to deal with.. lots of it too at times. No one kills people.... I pray for the Krim family and little Nessie. ♥♥♥

 

[jennapuppy]

Speaking of class issues, why does this keep being brought up? Because when we jump out of thin air to the motivation for the murders of Lulu and Leo being that this woman wanted to sit around doing nothing for half the day, that she thought she should get something for nothing and that she expected a handout, it really become a class issue argument, IMO.
If not, well, the woman who stabbed her son and his playmate to death in Chicago a couple days later (along with the family dogs) isn't being accused of doing so due to monetary envy.

And does everyone realize how many nannies there are in this country? And how many of those are lower income peoples? Or immigrants? And that virtually none of them believe they are entitled to sit on a couch half the day? Or feel a seething rage because their employers have more than them, such that they want to kill someone? I mean, the way I'm reading it here, it's just perfectly reasonable to imagine a class of immigrant domestics seething with a sense of entitlement and rage just waiting to harm their long suffering employers. Come on.

With all due respect, I don't agree that all discussions of the nanny's possible motives as per her statements are merely based on class issues. I was looking at it from the standpoint of the employer-employee relationship. There's a long history of disgruntled employees retaliating in a violent manner against their employers. Those don't always include acts of violence against the employer's family but, in this case, taking care of the family was the very nature of her job. I don't think any of the posters here have tried to paint all domestic workers with a broad brush based upon the actions of this woman. I think we have just been trying to understand her motivations. In the case of the Chicago woman, I believe she stated that she acted out of anger at her husband.

In the case of YO, she may have started suffering from some mental health issues, but millions of people are mentally ill and never harm anyone or, at most, only harm themselves. I think most of us are just trying to understand what other factors may be at play here.

IMHO