After Newtown, new threats of gun violence surfacing

[katydid23]

I think that our kids are awash in violent and sexual imagery, like never before. They play a lot of violent video games and watch very violent films, and become desensitized to actual violence. Thus taking a REAL gun and killing someone no longer bothers them.

 

[Diddy98]

The problem being parents, not all but enough, are not teaching morals at home. It really isn't our schools job to raise our kids, it is our job.

 

[TrackerSam]

I think that our kids are awash in violent and sexual imagery, like never before. They play a lot of violent video games and watch very violent films, and become desensitized to actual violence. Thus taking a REAL gun and killing someone no longer bothers them.

:cheers: Drugs, gangsta rap and being sexy.
The kids have no respect for the teachers and the teachers are powerless to do anything about it.
Discipline the child and go to jail for abuse. They wield more power than the parents.
You can't lock up the crazies (for long) - they have rights.
And they'll do anything to get on Utube.

 

[Hez]

Who's blaming women and where did you get that from. It's laughable that you would come up with that. Nor is there a suggestion to "force" anything on anyone, another fanciful notion not in evidence in my post. :yow:
I also never mentioned anything about the right to bear arms. It's like your trying to write my post for me. :floorlaugh:
What's not being taught in schools is morals, ethics and the value of life. Maybe you can twist on that. And as I said at the beginning of the post - "IMO". Look it up. It means My opinion, not yours. Liberalism is creating another Sodom and Gomorrah in MY opinion, which under the TOS, I'm allowed to have and express.

BBM - That is because it is a parent's job to teach those things to their kids. MO

 

[Nova]

IMO it's not so much about "forcing" religion on anyone and teaching them as Tracker says morals, ethics and value of life. of teaching them that people matter, that they matter. teaching them to take responsibility for their actions.

as far as i'm concerned i'm not talking about teaching them what MY morals are but that they should have guide lines for their lives.

And when was that ever taught in schools? I went to elementary school BEFORE the Supreme Court decision banning organized government religious instruction, but I certainly didn't learn most of my ethics there. I did that at home and, to a far lesser extent, at church, which were the appropriate spheres for ethical instruction.

 

[Nova]

I never mentioned God at all. :doh: But since YOU did, He's not allowed in schools and they obviously aren't safe there. They're not safe anywhere and for the same reason........lack of guidance and morals.

Could we please not parrot Glenn Beck and his ilk?

How could anyone keep an omnipresent being out of a school? There is no rule against private prayer or communication with a higher power; students are free to do so. And I suspect you wouldn't be happy if *I* taught religion to your kid, so why are you so insistent that some stranger do it?

And if your kid needs to be "guided" to the conclusion that it's wrong to shoot dozens of strangers, I think he's already lost.

 

[Nova]

I think that our kids are awash in violent and sexual imagery, like never before. They play a lot of violent video games and watch very violent films, and become desensitized to actual violence. Thus taking a REAL gun and killing someone no longer bothers them.

I'm very leery of government censorship, but more and more I think katy has a point. It isn't any one violent film or video game, it's the almost constant climate of imaginary violence from a certain age onward.

If we imagine an action long enough, it comes to seem more possible in real life. Isn't that the point of many kinds of training?

I'm glad my daughter severely restricts what the grandkids are allowed to play and watch. It's probably not a perfect solution, but what can it hurt?

 

[athy]

And when was that ever taught in schools? I went to elementary school BEFORE the Supreme Court decision banning organized government religious instruction, but I certainly didn't learn most of my ethics there. I did that at home and, to a far lesser extent, at church, which were the appropriate spheres for ethical instruction.

as i grew up around then also. my thoughts were going faster than my typing as i have to type one handed (broke my right wrist again)

when i was talking about teaching kids ethics and morals i wasn't necessarily talking about in school but in general. sorry didn't make it clearer. also sorry i can't further my thought but wrist is hurting too much right now.

 

[Steely Dan]

Who's blaming women and where did you get that from. It's laughable that you would come up with that. Nor is there a suggestion to "force" anything on anyone, another fanciful notion not in evidence in my post. :yow:
I also never mentioned anything about the right to bear arms. It's like your trying to write my post for me. :floorlaugh:
What's not being taught in schools is morals, ethics and the value of life. Maybe you can twist on that. And as I said at the beginning of the post - "IMO". Look it up. It means My opinion, not yours. Liberalism is creating another Sodom and Gomorrah in MY opinion, which under the TOS, I'm allowed to have and express.

BBM

That's one of the reasons I decided not to go into teaching. When a parent says that, they mean teachers aren't teaching THAT PARENTS idea of morals, THAT PARENTS values, THAT PARENTS opinions on abortion. You'd get complaints from both sides and you should just let teachers teach.

If I had a kid and the teacher taught that communism is the best way to run a country (Something I vehemently disagree with) I wouldn't care. I'd talk to my kid about it and explain my point of view on the subject. I can't make the decisions for my kids. The most powerful person in your kids life is YOU.

People shouldn't expect teachers to do the parents job. When I was student teaching we sent out report cards. The kids had to get them signed by their parents and returned. There was a place for the parents to put comments. A few of them came back saying something to the effect of; "Why aren't you making sure he/she is getting their homework done?" :banghead:

I don't think the gangstas doing drive-bys are chock full of religion. 400 kids killed in Chicago last year.

Really? The mafia thinks it's very religious. Most of the people in the Italian mafia think that by tithing to the church they are making up for their sins.

I think that our kids are awash in violent and sexual imagery, like never before. They play a lot of violent video games and watch very violent films, and become desensitized to actual violence. Thus taking a REAL gun and killing someone no longer bothers them.

First, what is wrong with sexual imagery,as long as it's shown between two loving people?

Second, again, IMO, it's the parents job to make sure the kid isn't desensitized to violence. When I was younger and video games were much less advanced I played a lot. I haven't become desensitized to violence, because my father instilled in me a sense of right and wrong. Sometimes it's fun to play the bad guy. I played cops and robbers when I was a child.

The problem being parents, not all but enough, are not teaching morals at home. It really isn't our schools job to raise our kids, it is our job.

:goodpost: :clap:

BTW, all of the above is JMO

 

[Nova]

as i grew up around then also. my thoughts were going faster than my typing as i have to type one handed (broke my right wrist again)

when i was talking about teaching kids ethics and morals i wasn't necessarily talking about in school but in general. sorry didn't make it clearer. also sorry i can't further my thought but wrist is hurting too much right now.

I'm so sorry about your wrist. And I didn't mean to contradict you; I posted before I saw your writing. Public school teachers DO teach some of the most important moral lessons: integrity, fairness, sharing, patience and general respect for the feelings of others.

If a child learns those lessons, s/he won't be bringing a gun to school. I'd even argue that while s/he may not remain a virgin until marriage, even his or her sex life will be conducted more ethically.

And let me just add it was an amazing and brilliant public high school English teacher who taught me that morality is a constantly moving target, not just a single destination for us to chart and stumble toward blindly.

If this seems to contradict what I wrote above, well, I've had a minute to think about it. I learned the basics of being a good person from my family, and from teachers I learned how to apply those basics to any circumstance, no matter how unusual.

 

[Nova]

BBM

That's one of the reasons I decided not to go into teaching. When a parent says that, they mean teachers aren't teaching THAT PARENTS idea of morals, THAT PARENTS values, THAT PARENTS opinions on abortion. You'd get complaints from both sides and you should just let teachers teach.

If I had a kid and the teacher taught that communism is the best way to run a country (Something I vehemently disagree with) I wouldn't care. I'd talk to my kid about it and explain my point of view on the subject. I can't make the decisions for my kids. The most powerful person in your kids life is YOU.

People shouldn't expect teachers to do the parents job. When I was student teaching we sent out report cards. The kids had to get them signed by their parents and returned. There was a place for the parents to put comments. A few of them came back saying something to the effect of; "Why aren't you making sure he/she is getting their homework done?" :banghead:



Really? The mafia thinks it's very religious. Most of the people in the Italian mafia think that by tithing to the church they are making up for their sins.



First, what is wrong with sexual imagery,as long as it's shown between two loving people?

Second, again, IMO, it's the parents job to make sure the kid isn't desensitized to violence. When I was younger and video games were much less advanced I played a lot. I haven't become desensitized to violence, because my father instilled in me a sense of right and wrong. Sometimes it's fun to play the bad guy. I played cops and robbers when I was a child.



:goodpost: :clap:

BTW, all of the above is JMO

Very wise, Dan. My parents NEVER worried about what I was taught in school. The bookshelves of our home were filled with Bibles and books of religious meditation and philosophy. The topic was discussed every night at the dinner table (where we were all required to be).

They were not blind fundamentalists, but were quite conservative nonetheless. Yet they trusted that their faith and reason would provide the right example for their children. I'm not perfect, by any means, but I think time has proved them right.

 

[Steely Dan]

Very wise, Dan. My parents NEVER worried about what I was taught in school. The bookshelves of our home were filled with Bibles and books of religious meditation and philosophy. The topic was discussed every night at the dinner table (where we were all required to be).

They were not blind fundamentalists, but were quite conservative nonetheless. Yet they trusted that their faith and reason would provide the right example for their children. I'm not perfect, by any means, but I think time has proved them right.

I have a friend who became a teacher. She teaches in High School. A student turned in a plagiarized paper for an assignment. She found the paper online, and so she gave him an F. The kid's mother came in to talk to the teacher and the principal. She started screaming at my friend telling her that she's ruining "Johnny's" chances of getting into Harvard and a lot of other BS stuff. My friend is not like me, I don't put up with a lot of BS.

I would have let the parent go off and then asked calmly if she was done. Then I would have calmly told her that the paper was plagiarized and that's why the kid got an F. I would have had a laptop computer with the page he plagiarized from loaded up. I'm sure the parent would insist that the paper wasn't plagiarized. I would hand her Johnny's paper and then tell her to read along with me. I would start reading the online paper and allow her to see that word for word it was the same paper.

If she still got mad, I'd tell her that if she wanted to teach lying is an ok attribute to have she could, but in my classroom I refuse to do that.

JMO

 

[Steely Dan]

One other thing. Religion doesn't make someone moral. I have a friend who's an atheist and he's one of the best people on the planet. He's a lot better than the vast majority of religious people I know. JMO

 

[mysterygirl]

And when was that ever taught in schools? I went to elementary school BEFORE the Supreme Court decision banning organized government religious instruction, but I certainly didn't learn most of my ethics there. I did that at home and, to a far lesser extent, at church, which were the appropriate spheres for ethical instruction.

But schools and communities were different then than they are now.

You probably had two parents who loved you. You sound like you had decent exposure to the basic teachings of church. You probably said the pledge at school.........with the words under God and everything!

Perhaps it really does take a village to raise a child.

We have slowly evolved into a society with a high divorce rate.........a high single parent rate .....within some groups it's epidemic.

We glorify violence in movies and games..........even sports. See something enough and it desensitizes you. We have grown dumber as a nation even though we throw money at education. We now have newer, faster more advanced ways to be ugly to one another.....the internet!

We need to return to responsibility.......instead of excuses and dependency.

All I'm saying is let's combine what is good in today's age with what was good about when we grew up.

For the last 10 years I've watched my brother in law and sister in law blame an array of teachers for what went wrong academically in my nephews life. Those boys can't be in the heat for an hour, never had a part time job, and spend about 8 hours a day "gaming". My parents blamed me if I tried to pass the buck on a "mean" teacher......made us mow the yard.....get part time jobs if I wanted "designer' stuff...etc.....

I feel like our current culture.......coming from many variables, not one.....is doing our youth a disservice.

Whew that was a rant.

 

[mysterygirl]

One other thing. Religion doesn't make someone moral. I have a friend who's an atheist and he's one of the best people on the planet. He's a lot better than the vast majority of religious people I know. JMO

No it doesn't Dan. If religion always resulted in moral people.........the Middle East wouldn't be such a problem. But if it's not hijacked by extremists......religion can provide very good and needed guidelines for society and life.

Last night I attended my five year old's Christmas production. It was held in a church and dedicated to the Conn. victims. It was so beautiful...the message, the tone, the meaning of Christmas etc. When they sang Happy Birthday to Jesus.....there were eyes filled with tears everywhere I looked.
No one was texting.........talking............people were paying attention and very moved. Just that basic production left me walking out in a completely different mindset than when I walked in.

 

[Steely Dan]

But schools and communities were different then than they are now.

You probably had two parents who loved you. You sound like you had decent exposure to the basic teachings of church. You probably said the pledge at school.........with the words under God and everything!

Perhaps it really does take a village to raise a child.

We have slowly evolved into a society with a high divorce rate.........a high single parent rate .....within some groups it's epidemic.

We glorify violence in movies and games..........even sports. See something enough and it desensitizes you. We have grown dumber as a nation even though we throw money at education. We now have newer, faster more advanced ways to be ugly to one another.....the internet!

We need to return to responsibility.......instead of excuses and dependency.

All I'm saying is let's combine what is good in today's age with what was good about when we grew up.

For the last 10 years I've watched my brother in law and sister in law blame an array of teachers for what went wrong academically in my nephews life. Those boys can't be in the heat for an hour, never had a part time job, and spend about 8 hours a day "gaming". My parents blamed me if I tried to pass the buck on a "mean" teacher......made us mow the yard.....get part time jobs if I wanted "designer' stuff...etc.....

I feel like our current culture.......coming from many variables, not one.....is doing our youth a disservice.

Whew that was a rant.

:goodpost:

The only thing that bothers me in that post is the reference to "One nation under God." That was added to the pledge in the 50's. I don't see why my friend who's an atheist should have to say that. JMO

Some things I want to add to your part about single parent homes are these;

First, I worked with a pharmacist who had been divorced. His divorce had been amicable. Every night around 7pm he would call his kids and ask them how their day went, if they got their homework done, was there anything they needed to talk about etc. The average amount of time he'd spend on the phone would be about five minutes. I told him one time that I really admired him for that. I said that even though it was only five minutes, a lot of people don't understand how important that contact is.

Second, the first time I heard the expression "Baby Daddy" it made me sad. Some people replaced the word "Father" with "Baby Daddy". Baby Daddy sounds, to me, like you're reducing the father to sperm donor level. It also implies that the mother is a tramp. Like she has a slew of "Baby Daddys". IIRC, there was even a song with a chorus that went "It's just my Baby Daddy." I never heard the whole song, but I'm assuming it was about a jealous boyfriend who didn't like her contact with the kids father.

Third, I love your story about your nephews. I worked with a guy at the hospital who told me that his kids would never lie to him. (Something that irks me to hear.) I asked him if he ever lied to his parents. He never answered the question despite my egging him to answer. IMO, EVERY kid lies to their parents at one time or another. Believing your kid will never lie to you is the first step in having them end up in prison eventually.

Here are some more observations about society in general;

We have a lot of people who want to dumb down our educational system by removing Darwinism from classrooms. They don't understand it, and they don't want their kids to understand it. I nearly had a heart attack and died, when I heard Pat Robertson say that Darwinism should be taught in schools. His reasoning was that religion was losing a lot of kids because of valid science (I bolded that because those weren't his exact words.). My father was a minister and believed in Darwinism. He believed that the old testament was a parable.

I also believe it does take a village to raise a child. However, we can't do that anymore. You can rarely scold a kid or tell their parents about misbehavior without getting an angry; "DON'T TELL ME HOW TO RAISE MY KID" response.

I was walking into the grocery store up the parking lot and a mother and her two very young kids were walking just behind me on the left. Her son was running a little ahead of her. A car started backing up and the mother said, loudly, but not angrily to her son; "look out that car is backing up." Instinctively I put out my left hand and touched his chest to hold him back.

That could have gone two ways. I could have gotten screamed at about not touching her kid, or she could have thanked me. She thanked me, and I told her it was an instinctual response. After a minute while I was in the store I realized that it could have been one of those :censored: parents who don't understand when you're trying to help their kid.

HLN has a show called "What would you do?" I haven't watched it. The current ad shows a father screaming at his young son in a restaurant about knocking over a drink. If you saw that what would you do? I've thought about it and I'd love to just calmly tell the father that he probably had a bad day and not take it out on his kid. However, the 'DON'T TELL ME HOW TO RAISE MY KID" more' of current society would keep me from doing that. I know that's probably wrong, but you risk getting into a physical fight with the father which would just add injury to insult.

No it doesn't Dan. If religion always resulted in moral people.........the Middle East wouldn't be such a problem. But if it's not hijacked by extremists......religion can provide very good and needed guidelines for society and life.

Last night I attended my five year old's Christmas production. It was held in a church and dedicated to the Conn. victims. It was so beautiful...the message, the tone, the meaning of Christmas etc. When they sang Happy Birthday to Jesus.....there were eyes filled with tears everywhere I looked.
No one was texting.........talking............people were paying attention and very moved. Just that basic production left me walking out in a completely different mindset than when I walked in.

BBM

I'm not saying this is what you meant. I just want to make an observation.

Too many people think that if the world were all of "Their Religion" it would be a utopia. I believe that if there was no religion it would be a utopia. The problems in the middle east wouldn't exist as much. Our nation wouldn't be so divided. The history of war would be much less and people would see others as people instead of pagans.

All of the above is just my opinion.

 

[4Jacy]

I just wish all these "disturbed", "angry" people would just shoot themselves, not innocent people who did nothing to them!

 

[FrayedKnot]

I just wish all these "disturbed", "angry" people would just shoot themselves, not innocent people who did nothing to them!

Amen.

 

[TrackerSam]

BBM

Second, again, IMO, it's the parents job to make sure the kid isn't desensitized to violence. When I was younger and video games were much less advanced I played a lot. I haven't become desensitized to violence, because my father instilled in me a sense of right and wrong. Sometimes it's fun to play the bad guy. I played cops and robbers when I was a child.



:goodpost: :clap:

BTW, all of the above is JMO

Except that the parent is vastly outnumbered by the various media outlets a kid is inundated with. Perhaps you'd like to try to answer the question? "Where have we gone so wrong with our youth"?
I've given my opinion, lets hear yours.

 

[TrackerSam]

One other thing. Religion doesn't make someone moral. I have a friend who's an atheist and he's one of the best people on the planet. He's a lot better than the vast majority of religious people I know. JMO

I'm not talking about religion per se. There are universal values that transcend all religions, otherwise known as the golden rule. The parent must compete with movies, radio, TV, video games, computers and a childs peers, and some of them are single parents. Morals must be taught at home but it's not enough, which is why schools need to help.