CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #6

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I always thought that if we don't delete a post while the 'edit' thing is still there that it's TOO LATE to delete the post. :waitasec:

How could he delete a post so late in the game?

Does this get more bizarre by the moment or what?

:shakehead:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Equally perplexing is post # 582, page 24 of thread #2.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Audrey Gleave, retired teacher, viciously murdered in home, Ancaster Ontario, #2

'... Why did she email me to tell me she was going??'

PK is referring to the discrepancy in AG telling him she was going to the coffee group 'come hell or high water' and emailing the coffee group to say she wasn't coming.

PK's post that outlines AG's e-mail to him regarding going to the coffee group has been deleted. PK has 19 posts, but I can only find 18. If you delete one of your posts, are your posts then re-numbered to reflect how many you have made?

See post #507 - seems that deleted post had been copied there at one time.

More bizarre and more bizarre - take a good look at the posts by this handyman! All of them. He says he's been in Aud's kitchen, bathroom and bedroom where he didn't find any medications.

This kid takes the cake! (Pun intended). :rocker:

He knows as much about Aud as is humanly possible. So he says........:waitasec:

 

[roseofsharon]

I was just wondering about the 30 years plus friendship of AG and LV and how many times over those 30+ years did LV bring AG soup when she was under the weather.

Was this something LV did for AG for three decades or just in December 2010?

imo

 

[Sillybilly]

Speaking of LV and her 30+ year friendship with Audrey

From:
http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/2011/01/04/its-all-so-horrifying

Gleave left the club a few years ago but the pair remained friends, visiting once or twice a week. Gleave attended a lot of the Vanstone family gatherings, such as Thanksgiving, Christmas and Easter …

"All of the times I visited her, I think I was only in her house once.

"Usually, we sat on a bench outside the house where we would talk."

Vanstone said that Gleave always worried about strangers getting her e-mail address …

Let’s pretend “a few years” is 3 to 4 … at 2 visits per week, that’s a potential of 312 to 416 visits in total that LV had occasion to make to Audrey’s home .. of which 1 was in the house, others were “usually” on the bench. Why say "I think ... " and "usually" ... why not say "I was only ever in her house once and ALL the other times, we sat on a bench ..."? I would KNOW if I was only in someone's house only once (not think), and if the bench was the usual spot, where did other visits take place?

I find it a bit odd that LV would mention the possibility of strangers getting Audrey’s email addy, in light of the questions we have surrounding the emails sent the last day Audrey was ever seen, combined with the fact that LV didn't get the Amazing Grace email.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Did LV ever receive e-mails from Audrey? The handyman said he got about 2,000 e-mails from Audrey. Why would LV not get regular updates via e-mail from a friend of 30+ years?

:twocents:

-----------------------

ETA:

Some questions about LV:

1. How do we know she even had/used a computer?

2. How far away from Audrey did LV live?

3. If Audrey was seeking help with the 'Amazing Grace' video, wouldn't LV have been the most logical one to receive it above all others?

4. If the handyman has such intimate knowledge of Audrey's house (bedroom, bathroom, medication, etc.) how is it that LV *seems* to know nothing/not much about the interior of her dear friend's house?

???????????????????????????????

 

[Woodland]

From PK thread #2, page 11, post #271 - re-posted (LC) previous page -

'Finally, regarding the tidying, AG never gave me the slightest impression that it was for any other reason than simply recognizing she was getting older and wanting to purge some of her things. I believe I've mentioned before that in her last year, AG and I talked a few times about what would happen after she was gone.'

Have always wondered what AG said to PK regarding what would happen after she was gone. AG didn't seem to put anything in her Will with respect to what would or should happen. Did they talk about the dogs, the house, belongings in the house? Anything for him?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoted from Woodland:

<<< Have always wondered what AG said to PK regarding what would happen after she was gone. AG didn't seem to put anything in her Will with respect to what would or should happen. Did they talk about the dogs, the house, belongings in the house? Anything for him? >>>


And perhaps even a better question is this: Why on earth would Audrey even discuss this topic with a handyman!! :waitasec:

 

[colette]

And perhaps even a better question is this: Why on earth would Audrey even discuss this topic with a handyman!! :waitasec:

Maybe he was helping her get rid of some junk as she was downsizing.

 

[Sillybilly]

From PK thread #2, page 11, post #271 - re-posted (LC) previous page -

'Finally, regarding the tidying, AG never gave me the slightest impression that it was for any other reason than simply recognizing she was getting older and wanting to purge some of her things. I believe I've mentioned before that in her last year, AG and I talked a few times about what would happen after she was gone.'

Have always wondered what AG said to PK regarding what would happen after she was gone. AG didn't seem to put anything in her Will with respect to what would or should happen. Did they talk about the dogs, the house, belongings in the house? Anything for him?

I asked PK that question ... he never answered.

 

[Sillybilly]

Maybe he was helping her get rid of some junk as she was downsizing.

PK said:

I believe I've mentioned before that in her last year, AG and I talked a few times about what would happen after she was gone.'

Our question was not so much about WHY she would have been cleaning out clutter (if she was actually doing so), but more about what did they discuss about what would happen after she was gone.

PK says he thinks he mentioned this before ... he had not. When I asked the specifics of what that discussion consisted of, he did not respond. My thinking was/is, if you've left your entire estate to your friend LV, what else would/could Audrey have said would happen "after she was gone" that she would discuss with the handyman? And if PK is the only one that AG discussed the future without her in it, how coincidental that not much later we have ... a future without her in it.

ETA: Here was my question to PK:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Audrey Gleave, retired teacher, viciously murdered in home, Ancaster Ontario, #2

PK, when you get a minute ... you mentioned earlier that you and Audrey talked a few times about what would happen after she was gone. Could you please elaborate on this, i.e. any reference to provisions for her beloved dogs, what would happen with her home, property, personal possessions, etc.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

sillybilly is absolutely correct. Of course we all like (need?) to clean out clutter and it makes us feel better/fresher/cleaner. And single women/men often need a helping-hand to do this kind of de-cluttering.

That said, whilst de-cluttering what was said to the handyman? Just idle chit-chat or something of more substance?

:truce:

------------

ETA important part of sillybilly's post above:

<<< PK says he thinks he mentioned this before ... he had not. When I asked the specifics of what that discussion consisted of, he did not respond. My thinking was/is, if you've left your entire estate to your friend LV, what else would/could Audrey have said would happen "after she was gone" that she would discuss with the handyman? And if PK is the only one that AG discussed the future without her in it, how coincidental that not much later we have ... a future without her in it. >>>

 

[LeftCoaster]

Bin thinkin' again .. hate when that happens

PK met Audrey 2006ish or earlier, depending on varied accounts. AG's LWT was in 2007. She didn't know him ALL that well at that time, but what if she did do another LWT later on, after she had become fond of he and AK? (In 2009 she was helping find a good photographer for their upcoming wedding.)

When a Will is done by a lawyer, the original is usually kept in the office vault. When a person does their own LWT, they are well advised to notify their Executor where the original can be found in their home, or possibly even give the original Will to the Executor (they're going to end up with it in the long run anyway). What if there was a more recent Will leaving some serious $$ and that fab new Camaro to PK? The Executor would either have the old Will in their possession, or at least knew that AG kept her Will in the house. Spend a couple of days rummaging around through the clutter, find the new Will, trash it, and by gar ... you've still got all the goodies you were entitled to under the old Will.

(sorry that this post kind of lands out of the blue)

BBM

You might hate it when you've been thinkin', SB, but I have to admit I look forward to those times!

The theory you've posed here is one that for the most part would align with details we've noted:

1. HUGE discrepancies in the LE description of the murder scene vs. PK's, and then further discrepancies in PK's own various descriptions of what he saw.
   
2. Some strangeness about what Audrey's purportedly close friend of 30+ years, executor of her will, and last person to see her alive as far as we know, would choose to say in the wake of her horrible death (i.e., musing about mutual friends unbeknownst to her, and was only in the house once - she thinks). Then, this person is the one to take charge, personally, of the cleaning and preparation of Audrey's house for what seems an unseemly quick sale, considering that the ex-husband (AG) was apparently more concerned about the former matrimonial home than anything else.
   
3. The will itself, that somehow manages to emphasize major bequest to LV or her brother, while leaving conspicuous by their absence such things as funeral / interment directions (was it not said elsewhere that Audrey had wanted to be interred with her pets at the pet cemetery, and it wasn't allowed - would this not be expected to appear in the will?), and arrangements for the care of her beloved dogs, not to mention nothing for PK. That would be PK whom she clearly was very fond of, with frequent email messages, invitation into her home on several occasions, and other nurturing behaviour (wedding photography, for example). I can see where any amendment communicated to LV might not go over too well. :moo:
   
4. The eagerness with which LE immediately went after homeless, eccentric DLS, possibly based on concerns voiced by...whom?... while possible clues to the murder were rapidly erased by the cleaning and sale of the home. Something seems strategic there, in retrospect.:twocents:

Now, we just throw in some unknowns, like what was going on between the afternoon of the 26th and the discovery of Audrey's body; what the estimated time of death would be, based on the condition of the remains; the 'sexual component'; and the wherefores of the "Amazing Grace" email with no further communication after that to regular contacts.

Way more than meets the eye here! I hope LE are being vigilant.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

BBM

You might hate it when you've been thinkin', SB, but I have to admit I look forward to those times!I like it as well!:rocker:

The theory you've posed here is one that for the most part would align with details we've noted:

1. HUGE discrepancies in the LE description of the murder scene vs. PK's, and then further discrepancies in PK's own various descriptions of what he saw. Indeed!
   
2. Some strangeness about what Audrey's purportedly close friend of 30+ years, executor of her will, and last person to see her alive as far as we know, would choose to say in the wake of her horrible death (i.e., musing about mutual friends unbeknownst to her, and was only in the house once - she thinks). Then, this person is the one to take charge, personally, of the cleaning and preparation of Audrey's house for what seems an unseemly quick sale, considering that the ex-husband (AG) was apparently more concerned about the former matrimonial home than anything else.
   
3. The will itself, that somehow manages to emphasize major bequest to LV or her brother, while leaving conspicuous by their absence such things as funeral / interment directions (was it not said elsewhere that Audrey had wanted to be interred with her pets at the pet cemetery, and it wasn't allowed - would this not be expected to appear in the will?), and arrangements for the care of her beloved dogs, not to mention nothing for PK. That would be PK whom she clearly was very fond of, with frequent email messages, invitation into her home on several occasions, and other nurturing behaviour (wedding photography, for example). I can see where any amendment communicated to LV might not go over too well. :moo:
   
4. The eagerness with which LE immediately went after homeless, eccentric DLS, possibly based on concerns voiced by...whom?... while possible clues to the murder were rapidly erased by the cleaning and sale of the home. Something seems strategic there, in retrospect.:twocents:Very, very troublesome to me.
   

Now, we just throw in some unknowns, like what was going on between the afternoon of the 26th and the discovery of Audrey's body; what the estimated time of death would be, based on the condition of the remains; the 'sexual component'; and the wherefores of the "Amazing Grace" email with no further communication after that to regular contacts.

Way more than meets the eye here! I hope LE are being vigilant.

Comments are contained within the quote.

 

[Sillybilly]

That said, whilst de-cluttering what was said to the handyman? Just idle chit-chat or something of more substance?

<rsbm>

Let's not forget, these discussions took place "a few times".

PS: Thanks to Stone and LeftCoaster for their kudos .. am wondering if perhaps you both might consider a small contribution to my annual Excedrin headache fund (i do accept PayPal).
:wink:

sb

 

[bodhi93]

Lots of great points/questions...

Just wanted to make another point... the only words we have from LV have come through MSM... and those were just the clips that some journalist thought would catch peoples attention... We know some of what she said, but what context was it in? and how much had been discussed before or after that...

ok one more (and this probably doesn't make any difference)... someone mentioned in an earlier post that the women that witnessed the LWT were an older woman and her caregiver... From what I could find I think they are a couple. I found (as did another poster here) an obit for one lady's mother and in brackets beside the daughters name (MF) was the other lady's first name (RVK). Usually that's where a partner's name goes... jmoo

 

[Woodland]

Imo, one does not discuss one's death, Will, provisions in the Will etc with a handyman unless that handyman is much, much more to that person.

PK also knew the value of AG's estate as submitted by LV in one of his early posts, then later claimed (thread #2, page 11, post #271) that if he mentioned a value previously, it was only meant to be the value of the house and car. Funny enough, some here have been relatively sure LV did not report cash and investments in the court submission as required by law.

 

[Sillybilly]

Imo, one does not discuss one's death, Will, provisions in the Will etc with a handyman unless that handyman is much, much more to that person.

PK also knew the value of AG's estate as submitted by LV in one of his early posts, then later claimed (thread #2, page 11, post #271) that if he mentioned a value previously, it was only meant to be the value of the house and car. Funny enough, some here have been relatively sure LV did not report cash and investments in the court submission as required by law.

I think I might be responsible for PK referring to the value of the estate. On July 11, 2011, I posted, what turned out to be, just a good gestimate on the value of Audrey's estate. PK didn't join the forum until August 2011, and I believe he said he didn't recall where he got the figure (although I suspected it was possibly from my post):

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Audrey Gleave, retired teacher, viciously murdered in home, Ancaster Ontario, #2

Am hazarding a guess that AG's estate (real property and personal property combined) was worth at least $500,000.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

First, to sillybilly - the cheque is in the mail for your Excedrin headache fund!!

Back to a handyman knowing the value of someone's home/assets - he's ONLY a handyman, not a beloved son. I simply cannot picture Audrey telling him:

- my new car cost X dollars
- I paid XX dollars for my convection oven
- my house is worth Y dollars
- my property is valued at YY dollars
- have a look around my bathroom and bedroom if you like

Now, I CAN see an elderly friend giving a handyman a trinket. If he said - Oh, I really like that ornament, Audrey might say - Go ahead, take it. But surely nothing in depth. Simply not believable........:moo:

 

[Sillybilly]

First, to sillybilly - the cheque is in the mail for your Excedrin headache fund!!

Back to a handyman knowing the value of someone's home/assets - he's ONLY a handyman, not a beloved son. I simply cannot picture Audrey telling him:

- my new car cost X dollars
- I paid XX dollars for my convection oven
- my house is worth Y dollars
- my property is valued at YY dollars
- have a look around my bathroom and bedroom if you like

Now, I CAN see an elderly friend giving a handyman a trinket. If he said - Oh, I really like that ornament, Audrey might say - Go ahead, take it. But surely nothing in depth. Simply not believable........:moo:

Oh Thanks Stone, but ... sigh, it seems all my cheques are in the mail

I could maybe see AG thinking, what the heck ... PK is a young guy who would probably like my Camaro and LV doesn't need it because she's already getting half a mill. One would think however that AG could have specified the sale of the Camaro to raise funds to look after her furbabes.

WRT bedroom ... yes, i could see kitchen and bathroom, but bedroom? Unless there was work to be done in that room, or that was where some of the decluttering took place. But to specifically note that there were no medications in any of those rooms? What a strange observation. And why wouldn't there be some medications, somewhere in the house? AG had been quite arthritic for a few years, so it is only natural that a person her age would have some pain relief meds, whether prescription or OTC. AG wasn't a small woman, which certainly doesn't help arthritic knees, and to give up golfing, her condition sounds like it was fairly advanced. Hopefully LE will have checked with Audrey's doctor in that regard.

 

[dotr]

http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/2011/01/06/mourners-united-in-grief-for-slain-retired-teacher
Video.

"Spring was really Audrey's and my time," said Kinsman outside the Beckett-Glaves Funeral Home on Wednesday following a memorial service for Gleave.

Kinsman, who worked part-time for Gleave on the property at her home west of Lynden, discovered her slain body on Dec. 30. The 73-year-old retired school teacher had been sexually assaulted and stabbed several times.

"I'm trying to move past what happened last week," said Kinsman, of Hamilton. "I'm in shock. I thought we had lots of years to spend together."