CA - Christopher Dorner kills 4 in tri-county rampage, Feb 2013 - #3

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[ame="http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50140947n"]Gun battle with wanted ex-cop - caught on tape - CBS News Video[/ame]

some of the gun fight
 
2 police officers were killed in the line of duty, they risked their lives to serve and protect. 2 other officers were wounded. It's something they will never forget. The effects of them being shot may be long lasting. They were injured in the line of duty, protecting other people. They are not corrupt cops caught with their hands in a cookie jar. The two officers who died this week were not corrupt cops. They were not on Dorner's "hit list."

All 4 of these officers took bullets for us. That's what they vowed to do. It cost two of them their lives. May they rest in peace.

A young, beautiful woman and the man she was to marry lost their lives before they ever got to live up to their potential. Bless their souls.

Two older women got caught in the crossfire of all this fear that Dorner generated with his manifest and lunacy. The officers who shot these women were on edge and trying to protect an LAPD family. They were on high alert. They made some bad choices, but they too took the oath to serve and protect and could have just as easily been killed as the other two officers and that young couple were.

The base root of all these people and what happened to them in this past week is laid at the doorstep of Christopher Dorner. He struck fear in the hearts of many, many people. Not just officers, but families, husbands, wives, children, grandchildren, and extended family members.

LAPD isn't perfect. It never has been, but it's not as corrupt and evil as people are making it out to be. Dorner had over avenues to explore if he really felt he got a bum decision by LAPD. You don't just load yourself up with guns and start shooting. What he did wasn't unlike the postal workers who got fired and went back to the post office and killed all their former work mates. Dorner did the same thing, only his enemies were armed.

Dorner is a criminal. He's not a hero, he didn't do anyone a favor, he should never have been a cop, he should never have been able to pass a psych eval. So he let the housekeeper, her daughter and the white truck driver (not race, but color of vehicle) go and just took their vehicles. He doesn't deserve a medal for that. He killed innocent people and he was the cause of other innocent people getting shot. He's a murderer. This was not a just cause and he's not a martyr. He's a cop turned bad.

:clap: He is not a martyr and he is not Robin Hood. He was a sick twisted soul and he had the goods to follow up on his fantasy of murder and mayhem. I wish that the influences he cited in his manifesto had more of an impact on his life.
 
I believe they have an ID if it is Dorner. He had dental records on file I am sure and it takes no time to compare them..
 
less than 1000 feet from the burned truck

Amazing that he was able to hide there for so many days without being discovered. LE knew he was probably still in the area, its a good thing they waited him out and kept searching.

I'm still amazed that more people weren't hurt. Can you imagine if they had discovered Dorner while he was holed up in Big Bear? It would have likely resulted in a big gun battle right there near the ski resorts. :what:
 
So I'm confused. Can someone confirm and possibly even LINK to the truth about the women held hostage? Did he hold them for 5 days OR did he stumble upon them just yesterday ? TIA
Because I saw one's husband on the news and I'm thinking would he not have let people 5 days ago know his wife was missing and last known to go clean a cabin in the big bear area and that tip off police 5 days ago that something might be wrong? So I'm guessing they were NOT held for 5 days even though that seems to be a pretty common story. Tks
 
cbs2 reported that when they were searching the cabins, they knocked on the door, if no one answered they left it and considered it cleared, cbs2 said they didn't go thru empty cabin

Haven't read all the posts since last night so maybe this was mentioned BUT...

If I were tasked with searching those cabins I would think a laser heat sensor would be an important tool, see if the windows are above average temp and narrow in on those cabins that are warmer.
 
I was surprised they let it burn so long. Thank goodness they put it out, I was worried that another casualty of all of this-besides the 4 innocent lives that were lost, the cabin burned to the ground, and the 2 vehicles carjacked- was going to be a huge forest fire!!!

Omg , there is no way that fire was a danger to the surrounding area, they said it was self- contained and too dangerous to send anyone it due to ammo which continued to go of at unpredictable intervals thruout the ordeal. As all should know, (basic fire safety rules), just because the fire was no longer flaming doesn't mean it is out. If there was even a couple of live rounds left in the basement, they pose a danger as long as the fire smolders.

The agency in charge of this operation and the fire scene did not mislead or let the wrong thing slip. They don't need to CYA here. They are just doing the right thing in order to avoid losing another first responder to this tragedy. Lord knows if would be foolish to lose another hero's life to retrieve the dead body of the man who planned to die this way from the beginning.

And yes, it is very possible to set a fire and kill oneself immediately. A small fire or incendiary device would be noticed after the shot was heard by those outside.

The police were in a gun battle orchestrated by this madman and their lives were at stake. Donner fired at them first and clearly chose not to give up . If any cop had a clear shot at any time he would have been irresponsible to risk all of their lives by not taking it!



I address this to no poster in particular, as there are several who clearly oppose LE:

I will again echo our moderator's many, many reminders that this thread is not for disrespecting Law enforcement, whose families were essentially being held hostage by this domestic terrorist.

I am proud to be a member of "police family", and yes, we are a family whose members leave our homes every day and answer emergency texts in the night to protect everyone. We even protect those who call us fools while police officer's children hide with armed guards from a madman on a mission to assassinate them!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I'm sure there are many of us that were wronged by our employers at one time or other. Why are cops any different than any other profession?

IMO, and it is probably not a popular one, LE is different because they are the armed enforcement wing of the government. They are not just Jane Doe citizen who might treat you unfairly in a random encounter at the coffee shop or bus stop.

Because they are charged with the great responsibility of keeping the peace, and enforcing the law, when they break the law, when they have an institutionalized system that punishes those who whistleblow (and this isn't a new phenomenon, and it certainly isn't unique to the lapd), the effects are all the greater, because it is the very wing of the government that is supposed to be upholding the law, enforcing the law fairly. How does one go about peacefully trying to right wrongs, or prevent injustice, when the very system that is supposed to help do so is doing exactly the opposite?

Add to that all the usual stressors that an LE officer encounters on the job due to the inherent dangers.

I can see how such a situation would absolutely break a person down mentally, much more so than at another job where unfairness and stress might be happening.

Standard disclaimers of course - none of this justifies murder. But are merely my thoughts as to why, in general, it would be different for cops as opposed to any other job.
 
I have always been told that something good always comes out of the bad things that happen. In this case (like many others) there are no winners. I am praying for the families of those who were killed. I am also praying for Dorner's family...i can't imagine what they have been through...they never asked for any of this.
 
IMO, and it is probably not a popular one, LE is different because they are the armed enforcement wing of the government. They are not just Jane Doe citizen who might treat you unfairly in a random encounter at the coffee shop or bus stop.

Because they are charged with the great responsibility of keeping the peace, and enforcing the law, when they break the law, when they have an institutionalized system that punishes those who whistleblow (and this isn't a new phenomenon, and it certainly isn't unique to the lapd), the effects are all the greater, because it is the very wing of the government that is supposed to be upholding the law, enforcing the law fairly. How does one go about peacefully trying to right wrongs, or prevent injustice, when the very system that is supposed to help do so is doing exactly the opposite?

Add to that all the usual stressors that an LE officer encounters on the job due to the inherent dangers.

I can see how such a situation would absolutely break a person down mentally, much more so than at another job where unfairness and stress might be happening.

Standard disclaimers of course - none of this justifies murder. But are merely my thoughts as to why, in general, it would be different for cops as opposed to any other job.

Thank you. I will pray for this man, as well as all the families involved. I believe he just had too many things go wrong in his life, more than he could deal with, and he broke.

I also believe LE should be held to a higher standard, and when they don't live up to it, there should be equal consequences. If the killing of a policman is automatically worthy of the death penalty, because of who they are, then they should be held equally accountable when they make "mistakes".

In my opinion
 
So I'm confused. Can someone confirm and possibly even LINK to the truth about the women held hostage? Did he hold them for 5 days OR did he stumble upon them just yesterday ? TIA
Because I saw one's husband on the news and I'm thinking would he not have let people 5 days ago know his wife was missing and last known to go clean a cabin in the big bear area and that tip off police 5 days ago that something might be wrong? So I'm guessing they were NOT held for 5 days even though that seems to be a pretty common story. Tks

I don't have any links, trying to find and sort through also. But what was coming out yesterday was he had held a couple since Thursday in the first cabin, then stole a truck from a lady told her he didn't want to hurt her or her dogs. Not sure what happen to truck, I guess this was when he went into town and filled the tanks then come back and held the cleaning lady and her daughter hostage just for the day, took off in her car she called LE reported car stolen fish and game LE seen the car that was out out on the BOLO , got into a gun fire (video out of that) Dorner ran and ended up in the 2nd cabin that hopefully he died in.

I am still looking for the 1st couple story that he had held hostage since Thursday.
 
I do not sympathize with his claims he was treated unfairly. He choked TWO coworkers! That is NOT okay and he should have been bounced out immediately! And he was!

If he were in the postal service I would sympathize because those guys couldn't just transfer and get away from the abusive system. But LE can, if he didn't like the way the LAPD was run he could have applied for a job with another police department that was more suitable for him. He likely knew early on that the work environment was not a good match, he knew and he didn't do the rational thing which would be "apply to other departments".

Honestly the LAPD has had a reputation for quite some time now, why would someone with all of Dorner's issues (going back to grade school) decide he WANTS to work for that department? I think he chose the LAPD because he KNEW they had a reputation.
 
Thank you. I will pray for this man, as well as all the families involved. I believe he just had too many things go wrong in his life, more than he could deal with, and he broke.

I also believe LE should be held to a higher standard, and when they don't live up to it, there should be equal consequences. If the killing of a policman is automatically worthy of the death penalty, because of who they are, then they should be held equally accountable when they make "mistakes".

In my opinion

I agree with you, Trident. Along with the badge, comes a HUGE amount of responsibility. IF it didn't everyone would/could be a cop. While i understand the pressure these men/women have been under the last few days, mistakes were made. I think that the LAPD and other branches of LE should be looking at this case VERY closely...

I pray nothing like this ever happens -again. Ever.
 
I don't have any links, trying to find and sort through also. But what was coming out yesterday was he had held a couple since Thursday in the first cabin, then stole a truck from a lady told her he didn't want to hurt her or her dogs. Not sure what happen to truck, I guess this was when he went into town and filled the tanks then come back and held the cleaning lady and her daughter hostage just for the day, took off in her car she called LE reported car stolen fish and game LE seen the car that was out out on the BOLO , got into a gun fire (video out of that) Dorner ran and ended up in the 2nd cabin that hopefully he died in.

I am still looking for the 1st couple story that he had held hostage since Thursday.

Ah Ok. TKS :) That makes more sense. When they referred to the ' couple ' I thought they were saying the 2 cleaning ladies and wondered why no one reported them missing. TKS again .
 
Could you imagine if Dorner started targeting police officers' school age kids, as part of his *righteous* plan to get back at the LAPD?

Ultimately, Dorner hardly lived up to his grandiose self-hype. He did a few things at first, but then petered out. This sinister nut-case ended up stuck on a mountain, just as many of us suspected. Thank God.
 
Could you imagine if Dorner started targeting police officers' school age kids, as part of his *righteous* plan to get back at the LAPD?

Ultimately, Dorner hardly lived up to his grandiose self-hype. He did a few things at first, but then petered out. This sinister nut-case ended up stuck on a mountain, just as many of us suspected. Thank God.

no -i won't let myself imagine that. :(
 
So I'm confused. Can someone confirm and possibly even LINK to the truth about the women held hostage? Did he hold them for 5 days OR did he stumble upon them just yesterday ? TIA
Because I saw one's husband on the news and I'm thinking would he not have let people 5 days ago know his wife was missing and last known to go clean a cabin in the big bear area and that tip off police 5 days ago that something might be wrong? So I'm guessing they were NOT held for 5 days even though that seems to be a pretty common story. Tks

SCHMAE, here is a snippet of a media report watched yesterday. In the report/video which is no longer available, a relative was interviewed that stated that the maid and her daughter worked for Big Bear Resorts and were doing a routine deep cleaning of the cabin Tuesday morning. Guess, they figured it was safe since the press updates were being given by LE only yards from the cabin location..
Dorner, had been hiding in plain sight for days..



http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/inland_empire&id=8989757
(snipped)
The dramatic ending began around 12:20 p.m. after a victim called 911 saying a man believed to be Dorner had held them hostage and stolen their car. The suspect had tied up two housekeepers who were working on a cabin. One was able to get away and make the call. Police say the women did not require medical attention and were not hospitalized.
 
With all due respect, I am not comparing them at all. They are both wrong in their own ways. I am outraged at both.

Especially the crazed cop killer.

Do you seriously think they were trying to protect the sleeping family? Is that what they said. Or were they really trying to be the hero and the first people to "get the guy", and were just trigger happy. IMO, I think the latter.

They weren't trying to be the first to get the guy. I'm sure they were startled and reacted abruptly. They are not used to being hunted and a truck rolling up in the dark with no lights on suspiciously that appeared to look like Dorners on the same street as a target family. And you have never been in the situation that they have been in. They did mess up but that is an extraordinary circumstance. It is clear many people on this board have no idea what LE go through everyday.
 
They were sitting undercover at that house, to PROTECT a family sleeping inside. They were not trying to be heroes. They saw a truck, of the same general description, driving up to the home with the headlights off, and a figure got out and threw something at the home, and so the cops opened fire, MISTAKENLY believing the family was in danger.

The cops blew it. No doubt. But I really don't think many people understand the stress level that a cop on the LAPD goes through on a daily basis. A high percentage of them 'eat their own guns' as they call it. My son's background investigator asked his fiance to read a specific book about the high failure rate of cops marriages just to educate her.

I am sure these cops will be severely demoted if not fired. And it makes me sad because it was not from malice but from a perfect storm of stressful circumstances.JMO

Thank you. Some one that has actually taken the time to think about what LE goes through instead just assuming they are trigger happy idiots that are giddy and want to capture the bad guy first. Lol. Life isn't a movie. That's not how they act when you're being hunted. People are incredibly cruel to these people that everyday go to work to make the city a safer place. It makes me sick
 
I feel bad for his mother. This must be hard for her watching her sons possible death on TV. Sad reporters are bothering her right now. They are ruthless.

Ruthless and inept. I know we create this by wanting information NOW, but the media should have integrity enough to wait for confirmation before throwing pine into the fire.
 
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