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Exactly, also he has had long term girlfriends before, whom I'm sure have used the bathroom through the night, especially if they have been drinking. Why would a noise from the bathroom be so startling in this instance. All he had to do was check the bed, as anyone would, before taking such drastic measures. I don't believe a word of it.

Plus I heard on Access Hollywood, a TV show, that he's a nice guy but known to be a hot head. Why isn't anybody addressing this point?

They don't have transcripts of the shows but I found this article of what Oprah would say to OP, http://www.accesshollywood.com/oprah-winfrey-reveals-what-shed-ask-oscar-pistorius_article_76296
 
Warning. This is LONG. And it has very little sleuthing content. And it's opinion only. Skip it if you like. :)

Now that we are at a point where we can draw breath and reflect a bit, I have one or two phenomena (I'll call them "memes" for want of a better term) that have been thrown up by what we have seen and heard and written (and seen written) over the past few days.

In some cases they overlap to the point where one meme is hard to distinguish from another, but the vague outlines hold true, in my view.
Basically, what we've had, for starters (you can think of more if you like), are:

1. The "Build 'em up, Knock 'em down" Meme
2. The Cynicism "They're all cheats anyway" Meme
3. The Vengeance First and Foremost Meme
4. The Canonisation of the Victim Meme
5. The TV Miniseries Version of Justice Meme
6. The Permanent Leakage Meme


1.
Starting from the top, Oscar Pistorius fits perfectly into the mould formed by the likes of Tiger, Lance, countless footballers from Maradona and George Best onwards, plenty of heavyweight boxers, entertainment figures suddenly and - whoops! - "shockingly" exposed as serial rapists or kiddie-fiddlers, pop idols with a penchant for too much Colombian marching powder, and on and on...
These people are often encouraged in their nasty habits for a long time before they suffer their fall from grace, surrounded by sycophants and also often heavily involved in "charitable" matters that blind people to their real malevolence or their human frailties. The media accommodates and enables them until it decides that they are ripe to be brought down - at which point their (and our) feeding-frenzy is only surpassed by their (and our) refusal to acknowledge just how much they (and we) have "groomed" these individuals in the first place.
In some cases, for example the recent Jimmy Savile scandal in the UK, the icon is deemed - rather like a financial institution - to be "too big to fail" for a while before he is brought down (in Savile's case only after his death).
Oscar is a runner. He is elevated to iconic status by being a handicapped athlete and a global icon of disabled sports. Other aspects of his character, good or bad, are ignored and sublimated by the obsession with his metal legs, just as Tiger Woods' wayward off-course behaviour was seen to be irrelevant as long as he was banging in 30-foot putts and lacing 300-yard drives down the fairway.
Lance Armstrong is a more complex case, of course, but here, too, the media and the public are complicit in elevating him way beyond his real worth (you will infer - correctly - that the writer feels we generically lift sporting & entertainment figures and "celebrities" in general to a podium way above what they deserve), and in ensuring that Lance's fall will be all the more catastrophic.
Those who accommodated singer Amy Winehouse's crack habit on her way up are as revolting as those who stamped on her body on the way down. They were making money out of her both ways around.
The same will go for Pistorius in his own personal rise and fall, and - if you look carefully - it has already started in our own readiness to assume "he must have dunnit" (because he's now in freefall mode and we can believe absolutely anything about him), and he MUST be a calculating narcissistic pyschopath because...well, he must be, mustn't he? Stands to reason, doesn't it?

2.
This first "assisted rise and fall" phenomenon has played its part in creating a second meme, that of the jaded and cynical viewpoint that "nothing whatsoever is what it seems" and it's all theatre anyway, from sportsmen flagrantly cheating (athletics, cycling, etc.) and diving (football) in order to gain advantage to politicians who are only in it for their own benefit and Hollywood stars who are "naturally" unpleasant bastards just as soon as the camera is off them.

Pistorius gets some of this, as it is somehow assumed he MUST be a nasty piece of work because he's probably barked at a few pushy people who got too close to his personal space (he's famous - it goes with the territory) and he throws his money and his weight around in the manner of most privileged young sportsmen and women, for all that he's been set up as an icon and paragon.
To some extent this, too, accentuates people's feelings about his inevitable guilt, even to the point where they bluntly refuse to accept that he might just have had a loving relationship with his girlfriend Reeva, might not have been possessed of a personality disorder, and might actually be feeling real remorse rather than crying what we assume are "just crocodile tears".
"After all, they all cheat, don't they?" "He's just a good actor is all". The fact that as yet we have not had scads of people "close to the case" coming out of the woodwork to suggest the Pistorius-Steenkamp relationship was on the rocks is actually a huge disappointment to some onlookers. This may of course simply be that they cannot bear the idea that it was all a ghastly cosmic misfortune: deliberate, premeditated murder would somehow be easier to swallow. Go figure...

3.
Moving right on, we have the Vengeance Meme. A life has been taken, in circumstances that have yet to be fully determined. Regardless of whether this WAS all a terrible accident that will leave the perpetrator scarred for life, there is an urge to scourge and punish him in equal measure, even to the point where he MUST be incarcerated pending trial.
What benefit this will have for society at large and for the relatives of the victim is of secondary significance. It is a very visceral and personal lashing-out for revenge and recompense, as though WE have some personal investment in Reeva's lost life (not dissimilar to the late 20th century, post-Diana sense we have of being a part of the lives and deaths of celebrities whom we don't know - all those *advertiser censored**ing teddy-bears).
I noticed a good many posters wanting Oscar to be banged up, not based on any concrete knowledge that "he did it and he meant to do it" (besides, we don't HAVE that knowledge) so much as based on "somebody must be punished, and NOW". I suspect this is only loosely related to the wider debate about violence against women - I'm horribly afraid it's more about "violence against someone I've read about in the paper". Shrug.

4.
Then from the reference above to the fragrant St. Diana, Queen of Hearts we naturally segue into the very popular "Canonisation" meme, in which the victim is exalted, particularly if young and attractive, and is imbued with all manner of good qualities that may or may not bear any resemblance to the truth.
Reeva was a model, and very pretty, but she was hardly a figure worthy of the pedestal she will be put on in death. Her Twitter pages showed a rather typical and, dare I say it, slightly vacuous young woman who partied, often at others' expense, who allowed herself to be used for product placement, and regularly put up glossy pictures of the cars and other toys she had been lent through her exposure as a minor-league South African celebrity.
Ultimately she was a nice kid, she was somebody's daughter and sister, and it's utterly rotten and crappy and bloody unfair that someone's killed her and her family have to bury her, but people like Reeva and people more valuable to society than her die every day in mindless road accidents and as a result of painful illnesses, and nobody puts them on the front page.
As a murder victim, it is important that the deceased is perfect in every detail. Even if she was just human.
It helps us to demonise the killer. Which we do quite readily.

5.
The TV MiniSeries Justice Meme is present throughout the long (and now closed) thread, as people struggle to come to terms with the fact that this ain't over yet, and it isn't all neatly wrapped up in four or five pithy one-hour episodes, with forensics and ballistics and clever police breakthroughs and what-have-you.
Many seemed blissfully unaware that what went down in Pretoria was NOT a trial, but a rather bloated bail hearing, that the prosecution were hamstrung by not being able to present evidence, or by not WISHING to show their hand completely as yet. The posters felt actively frustrated, as if they were a TV viewer who knew more than the characters in the drama (although they did not), and they felt the prosecution had not done enough to present their case. The prosecution certainly did bungle things in their own cloddish way, but this was not a trial as such, and should not have been understood as one. For a start, it's real, not fiction.
We'll have to wait for Season Two, and wait and see if the prosecution can exploit the very considerable opportunities that have been opened up by the defence's detailed affadavit. Just one significant bit of conflicting forensic evidence and we have ourselves a serious ball-game. We will also have to accept reluctantly that not EVERYTHING will be told to us exactly when we expect it - according to the script. And we'll have to accept that social media and the Twitosphere or whatever it's called doesn't always know the answers just because it is quickest to the keyboard.

6.
And that takes me to the last meme on the list. This (Leakage) might seem rather irrelevant by comparison, but it's been an integral part of the past week. With 24-hour rolling news desperate to break the story, social media trying to best the press, and with police authorities and others too often closely in bed with the journalists, nothing remains under wraps for more than ten minutes any longer. This case was littered with vague rumours and leaks floating into view - some possibly deliberately engineered by the defence as "false flag" exercises - that were ultimately shown to be bogus or at least greatly exaggerated.
I say "engineered by the defence" because arguably it was the defence that benefited most from the very colourful statements that were being put about as fact earlier this week. When it was possible to completely demolish the "bloodied cricket bat story", it was also possible to throw into question a good many other possibly incriminating facts and claims around the case. The common feature of the rumours was that they were all surreptitiously leaked to an eager world.

Now just so's you don't get the wrong idea, I willingly put my hand up and say I'm guilty on all counts for the above prejudices.

It's EXTREMELY easy to be sucked in to thinking along these lines, and doubly so when one is coming from a relatively "safe" living environment where the idea of blowing holes in the toilet door "just in case" there is an armed intruder in there is completely alien.

There have been times this week when I've been 110% convinced OP is a conniving *advertiser censored* and a premeditated murderer, but right now... well.. the jury is out. I've no idea WHAT to think anymore. I'm just interested in what forces have been brought to bear on my mind (and yours) to make us think the way we have...

Sorry about the length. Now back to your normal programming. :)
 
Evidence of it escalating? I just don't see how that works out. You get in a fight and you don't go all the way over to your bed and get a gun and shoot her four times.

Why would it matter so much to him if she was going to leave that night? They weren't married, a drunken fight can be excused the next day, she's been through a lot of stress with him.

I just don't get the leap to "I'm going to go get my gun and shoot her four times through the door and then try to pass it off as an accident."

She died three minutes before the paramedics arrived. So this means he'd have to concoct the whole story in a few minutes after killing her.

I don't see a clear motive here.

4 Shots equal rage. The question is what could have driven him to do that.

This has no bearing on this case as I am only answering the point that someone can flip and kill.

A guy has sex with his new girlfriend. Afterwards she tells him that she is HIV+
He is not well informed of the disease and kills her on the spot. He response was she killed me so I killed her. Just imagine someone has full blown AIDS and never tells you until afterwards.
A scenario like this one could understand why, I think he should have gotten tested first.

I guarantee that OP is thinking now, I wish I just walking away.

Inobu
 
Hi and welcome to Websleuths. Oh, you mean to this thread.
When I heard about this tragedy on the news, the second thought I had was 'I bet he's a steroid user'. Later it came out that they found some in his house.

From Barry Bateman's Twitter: Testis Compositim. “@bigdavesee: What's the name given by the defence to the 'herbal remedy' found by Botha ?”


They did say it wasn't steroids and he has been tested multiple times and has never failed a drug test.
 
BBM

The magistrate did make a good point today though. He said most accused put out an affidavit simply saying 'I'm innocent' and that's it. OP put his entire story in the affidavit, opening it to be broken apart in a ton of different ways. That means that he (and his lawyers) are incredibly confident in their version or he has very bad lawyers (which I doubt).

We shall see.

My guess is that the lawyers wrote the script to account for what evidence they thought the police might find. Nel made a comment about OP not taking the stand. It was said that the prosecution was trying to get as much information from the defence that they could without revealing much themselves.

Can an affidavit ever be changed later?
 
I think he will get out of this via corrupt system and high powered defense lawyers. Still think it was a heat of passion crime, but his status will save him.

Agreed. Definitely a crime of passion. I fear he will see no prison time, even though he doesn't deny shooting her. Hopefully Reeva's family has enough stature that they can fight OP's big-money lawyers.

This case is especially interesting to me because I thought so highly of OP beforehand. I watched all of his Olympic races, read his book, followed him on twitter. The horrible deed does not erase the inspiration he has been for millions, and his charitable work. A momentary lapse of reason will irreversibly change his legacy. What a shame.
 
I agree if she was in there with a phone, him flipping out on her or intruder, she would have called someone for assistance.

Bathroom may have been only place to get away from very angry person you do not think is going to murder you, or, she was already in there as he says.

We do not know if she was ever sitting on the toilet.

Unless the phone, for some reason, didn't have any bars in the bathroom and she wasn't able to call out on it. jmo
 
4 Shots equal rage. The question is what could have driven him to do that.

This has no bearing on this case as I am only answering the point that someone can flip and kill.

A guy has sex with his new girlfriend. Afterwards she tells him that she is HIV+
He is not well informed of the disease and kills her on the spot. He response was she killed me so I killed her. Just imagine someone has full blown AIDS and never tells you until afterwards.
A scenario like this one could understand why, I think he should have gotten tested first.

I guarantee that OP is thinking now, I wish I just walking away.

Inobu


But you're comparing a fatal disease to "what?" That she maybe cheated on him or was going to leave him?

They've dated for a few months right (I heard reports about them in November) he's a famous athlete who is pretty handsome and can probably pick and choose women.

There's not physical battery on the body. If he flipped wouldn't there be SOME evidence? Like him throwing the IPAD or breaking the phone, or punching a wall? Or punching her or shoving her?

The idea that people believe this guy is going to go back to his bed and get a gun and shoot her four times is weird IMO.

I just don't see the motive here. I think the meme post that is posted above is exactly what is going one.
 
My guess is that the lawyers wrote the script to account for what evidence they thought the police might find. Nel made a comment about OP not taking the stand. It was said that the prosecution was trying to get as much information from the defence that they could without revealing much themselves.

Can an affidavit ever be changed later?

I don't think so. The affidavit is basically almost the same as him getting on the stand and testifying himself. If they find holes in the story via evidence, he can't go back and say something different because it's all there.

This is what a lot of experts were talking about, it's incredibly risky on his part to put details like that in an affidavit, because any little deviation and he's toast.
 
But you're comparing a fatal disease to "what?" That she maybe cheated on him or was going to leave him?

They've dated for a few months right (I heard reports about them in November) he's a famous athlete who is pretty handsome and can probably pick and choose women.

There's not physical battery on the body. If he flipped wouldn't there be SOME evidence? Like him throwing the IPAD or breaking the phone, or punching a wall? Or punching her or shoving her?

The idea that people believe this guy is going to go back to his bed and get a gun and shoot her four times is weird IMO.

I just don't see the motive here. I think the meme post that is posted above is exactly what is going one.

Yea, that's what no one can explain yet. That we're to believe they were just yelling and screaming at each other for a period of time (an hour according to a witness) and nothing physical happened that led up to the shooting? How does one assume a fight took place when there hasn't been any evidence of one put forth yet?

I still haven't seen anyone put forth how his version of events is impossible. Improbable? Yes. Not something an average person would do? Yes. But impossible? I don't think that's been proven yet.
 
His affidavit stated that he has some mobility on his stumps. How exactly does that work? I am not being trite. A computer graphic made by a Canadian newspaper depicts OP's version of events, and how he would have gotten down the hallway. He is depicted as literally dragging himself down the hallway, gun in hand.
 
Regarding the reports of arguing, that is not rumor, though the credibility of the witnesses was questioned by the defense. Prosecution stated they have two statements from witnesses/neighbors. One such witness stated they heard non-stop loud talking/arguing for one hour followed by gunshots. Defense diminished this witness' statement because he/she was to distant to positively identify the arguing voices as those of OP and Reeva. Second witness stated they heard shots, then screams, then more shots. Defense questioned credibility because witness reported inaccurate number of shots fired.

Could police go back to the witnesses and clarify their reports? Botha seemed vague and they refused to read them out.
 
Could police go back to the witnesses and clarify their reports? Botha seemed vague and they refused to read them out.

Too bad none of the neighbors shot any video from a closer point, to pick up the sound of the shouting. Has it been confirmed that police were called to the residence two hours earlier?
 
His affidavit stated that he has some mobility on his stumps. How exactly does that work? I am not being trite. A computer graphic made by a Canadian newspaper depicts OP's version of events, and how he would have gotten down the hallway. He is depicted as literally dragging himself down the hallway, gun in hand.

He is only missing lower legs. He has knees. I presume he is walking on his knees. If he had to drag himself on the floor, I don't think he would have gone to the balcony like that, to remove that fan. How do you remove the fan if you have to drag himself on the floor?
 
Our problem is we cannot see or know what the prosecution does and can only listen to what they say.

Remember the police forced everyone out after Reeva was pronounced dead.
Here is the EMT account

“He looked rattled,” said the medic, adding that Steenkamp had been wearing a black sweat top and long pants, but no shoes.

“She was lying on her back at the bottom of the stairs and we were told that she had been shot upstairs, and that Oscar had carried her down to the bottom. She had sustained a gunshot wound to her head and her right arm.............“As soon as we had done the declaration of the death, the police ushered us outside,” he said.


Botha said there were wounds in Steenkamp's head, elbow, and hip.

There was also a bullet hole through her shorts.



Here is the question that can really turn the case.

Does the black sweat top and pants have bullet holes in them. There is an eye witness to the scene that states that she had on black sweats. The state keeps referring to the shorts. This contradiction has only one answer.

If the sweats do not have bullet holes in them then the sweats were placed on the body after the shooting. If he is clothing her after the shooting and it was not stated in the affidavit the credibility drops to zero.

This is where the statement of

"I battled to get her out of the toilet and pulled her into the bathroom.
Was the battle getting the clothes on her?

Either the EMT is not telling the truth or the police cant tell the difference between sweats and shorts. Or the removal of the sweats revealed the shorts and the contridiction of events.

Does the sweat have bullet holes. That is the question

Inobu

I also wondered if he changed her clothes.
 
I don't think so. The affidavit is basically almost the same as him getting on the stand and testifying himself. If they find holes in the story via evidence, he can't go back and say something different because it's all there.

This is what a lot of experts were talking about, it's incredibly risky on his part to put details like that in an affidavit, because any little deviation and he's toast.

Might be risky, but he was not cross examined.
 
Evidence of it escalating? I just don't see how that works out. You get in a fight and you don't go all the way over to your bed and get a gun and shoot her four times.

Why would it matter so much to him if she was going to leave that night? They weren't married, a drunken fight can be excused the next day, she's been through a lot of stress with him.

I just don't get the leap to "I'm going to go get my gun and shoot her four times through the door and then try to pass it off as an accident."

She died three minutes before the paramedics arrived. So this means he'd have to concoct the whole story in a few minutes after killing her.

I don't see a clear motive here.

IMO he could have gone from very DRUNK to sleep to jealousy to rage to threats to planning to shoot her when he picked up the gun. It took time at least from 2am!
 
This too is a viable scenario as the pieces make sense.

I will even post a scenario that would fall into his favor.

Had he said

I we went down stair for water and came back up stairs heard a noise in the toilet room looked over at the bed and saw Reeva sleeping. Ran for my gun and fired 4 rounds into the door. I ran back to grab Reeva, I pulled back the covers to find pillows stacked in the shape of a body. I ran back to the toilet room busted the door down to find Reeva. I lost it.

That is more realistic to a mistake/joke gone bad. Mind you without the argument before that.

When I first heard the story I thought she had sneaked in to surprise him and was killed. When I read his rubbish. I was insulted by it.

Inobu

The truth is the truth.

I agree he could have done better with his story.
 
But you're comparing a fatal disease to "what?" That she maybe cheated on him or was going to leave him?

They've dated for a few months right (I heard reports about them in November) he's a famous athlete who is pretty handsome and can probably pick and choose women.

There's not physical battery on the body. If he flipped wouldn't there be SOME evidence? Like him throwing the IPAD or breaking the phone, or punching a wall? Or punching her or shoving her?

The idea that people believe this guy is going to go back to his bed and get a gun and shoot her four times is weird IMO.

I just don't see the motive here. I think the meme post that is posted above is exactly what is going one.

Unbelievable..

Chewy, you did not read it completely lol I will highlight it

Originally Posted by Inobu View Post
4 Shots equal rage. The question is what could have driven him to do that.

This has no bearing on this case as I am only answering the point that someone can flip and kill.

A guy has sex with his new girlfriend. Afterwards she tells him that she is HIV+
He is not well informed of the disease and kills her on the spot. He response was she killed me so I killed her. Just imagine someone has full blown AIDS and never tells you until afterwards.
A scenario like this one could understand why, I think he should have gotten tested first.

I guarantee that OP is thinking now, I wish I just walking away.

Inobu


That was an example to show that a person can kill over something said or done to them.

There are witnesses saying that they were shouting from 2AM to 3AM
the question is what about.

Inobu
 


Unbelievable..

Chewy, you did not read it completely lol I will highlight it

Originally Posted by Inobu View Post
4 Shots equal rage. The question is what could have driven him to do that.

This has no bearing on this case as I am only answering the point that someone can flip and kill.

A guy has sex with his new girlfriend. Afterwards she tells him that she is HIV+
He is not well informed of the disease and kills her on the spot. He response was she killed me so I killed her. Just imagine someone has full blown AIDS and never tells you until afterwards.
A scenario like this one could understand why, I think he should have gotten tested first.

I guarantee that OP is thinking now, I wish I just walking away.

Inobu


That was an example to show that a person can kill over something said or done to them.

There are witnesses saying that they were shouting from 2AM to 3AM
the question is what about.

Inobu


Two witnesses with no idea how reliable they are. One was over 1000 feet away how far was the other? If they had been arguing for an hour and someone 1000 feet away heard them, how didn't half the houses all around them not hear nothing? He didn't live in a rural area.
 
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