CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #3

[meteen]

I'm late but I wanted to point out that I'm pretty sure that it's not a reblog of a post made in October but a reblog of a post from two days ago (which itself was a reblog of a post made in October). This post is the one reblogged, it's a pain because they don't have dates on their layout but when I look at where it would be on my dashboard it comes up as February 25th. So yes, someone else must have reblogged it.

I also wanted to add that I don't find it odd that she had so many posts in her queue, I know people who have their queue filled or scheduled posts for months in advance but as I said it's not possible with this post.

the hermit was actually reblogged by magrittesque on december 31st. if you look at the archive of this user: http://magrittesque.tumblr.com/archive you can see the date of each blog post + reblog post.

 

[medsleuth]

Thank you!

It was a rather interesting analysis I agree with certain parts since I am rather interested in body language myself..

http://www.bodylanguagesuccess.com/2013/02/nonverbal-communication-analysis-2313.html

 

[FutzBucket]

manlet, could you explain why the light for the 14th floor doesn't light up when she presses it?

 

[BunnyHop]

Can I just say there's a big difference between the 4th floor and 14th floor. IMO there's no way someone forgets they're on the 4th floor and ends up on the 14th floor...unless they were drugged or hallucinating or didn't go up there by choice. I don't care how blind you're you would know right away that something is off because the elevator would take longer to go up 10 more floors... She would also notice the color difference on the walls and other signs she's on the wrong floor as well. Also the Stay hotel rooms have a key card, not a real key like the Cecil rooms do. There's no way for her to accidentally try to enter another room on that floor since she doesn't have a key and there's no key card slot. She also doesn't appear to be holding a key card which is odd unless it's it in one of her pockets. I've also known blind people who can easily find their way up a hotel elevator to the floor they're on, and this girl gets lost? I don't believe it and feel WE CAN RULE OUT THAT SHE ENDED UP BY MISTAKE ON THE 14TH FLOOR. Because nobody ends up 10 floors away from the floor they're on by mistake unless they went up there for a particular reason on their own or were brought up there by gunpoint/threat/etc.

I also doubt she would be looking for a bathroom/shower to use on another floor, especially a floor 10 floors up from her room, come on! After all she doesn't have any towel/washcloth/soap/toilet paper/purse with her or a change of clothes. So we can rule that out..

No footage was released of her going up the elevator to the 14th floor, so I assume she took the stairs up there? Perhaps she was just wondering around the hotel late at night because she couldn't sleep. Perhaps she wanted to go to the roof and see the stars/moon/view, but couldn't get the fire escape window open and made loud noises trying to get it open which woke someone up on the floor who got pissed at her or who helped her go to the roof?

I don't believe she was sleep walking , but I really don't understand the whole sleep walking syndrome and how that works, and don't sleepwalkers always have their arms out like a walking zombie? or is that just in the movies? I believe we can rule out sleep walking IMO as she seems to aware in the elevator footage. She may be in some drugged out daze, but I don't think so as she seems really aware and awake to be dreaming or drugged and to be hashing out those moves in the elevator. She seems very aware to me and not in fear.

Just my opinions..we all got them.

I agree. First and most obvious thing I noticed, is she is not carrying her purse. To me, that means it's a casual, spontaneous "outing, meeting or stroll" (for lack of better description). If she was out for the evening or returning, she would have had her purse. :twocents:

 

[Xavier]

I see.

I think they would have gone on the top of the utility building, since it's the highest point ("coolest"). And then either they went down on the tank, or she was killed there on the roof of the utility building (no way to run easily without jumping down).

Yeah, but I don't get it since LA LE found no wounds or appearance of foul play...so she was probably told to stay in the tank and at around 10 feet high at least, no way she'd get out, even if the tank was unlocked

 

[noodled1]

I just checked out the archives of the tumblr "magrittesque" which is the link you posted & where Elisa reposted this image from. Luckily, Tumblr archives are
always dated and magrittesque reposted the image herself from yet another user on Dec 31st, 2012. It is thus likely that Elisa saw back then it then and queued it to be posted now. It is also obvious that her posts are becoming less and less so that shows that the number of posts she auto qeued is coming to an end.
So it might seem creepy to people not used to tumblr, but to me it is just a little sad but, by itself, is not suspicous at all.

I've come to see the Tumblr account as useful for her personal posts and travel updates but nothing more. There's no dark secrets there, just an archive of things she liked or found interesting.

 

[FutzBucket]

Yeah, but I don't get it since LA LE found no wounds or appearance of foul play...so she was probably told to stay in the tank and at around 10 feet high at least, no way she'd get out, even if the tank was unlocked

Which is why he stuck her in there. What he didn't count on was everyone flipping out about this missing girl, so he just left her in there.

 

[FiveFelines]

GREAT analysis! I hope you keep posting

I think she was killed on the roof and then put into the water tank. Carrying her up to the water tank would have been too risky. Don't think it was a resident, but frequent visitor who knew the place well. I've read that the Cecil is often a holding spot for parolees. That seems to be an obvious place to look.

Thank you! Don't have any actual info, just trying to break it down piece by piece. I tend to agree with you. I originally thought someone brought her up to the roof (because of the news that search dogs didn't pick up her scent there). But since then I've seen posts here that bring the search dog/cadaver dog/scent thing into question. In that case, I think she either went up on the roof with a new "friend" or went by herself and interrupted residents or visitors who saw an opportunity. Very sad and I hope her family gets closure.

 

[BunnyHop]

GREAT analysis! I hope you keep posting

I think she was killed on the roof and then put into the water tank. Carrying her up to the water tank would have been too risky. Don't think it was a resident, but frequent visitor who knew the place well. I've read that the Cecil is often a holding spot for parolees. That seems to be an obvious place to look.

Do you have a link? TIA

 

[manlet]

manlet, could you explain why the light for the 14th floor doesn't light up when she presses it?

I'm sure it's not lit up because she's on that floor. I don't believe she was on that floor by mistake. She obviously went up to that floor for a reason on her own accord I believe. As for her pressing a bunch of elevator buttons to go down maybe she wanted to explore other floors on her way down. She strikes me as goofy like that or perhaps she felt she was in danger? I really am not sure. I don't know if she owns contacts but I do wonder why she doesn't have her glasses on if she isn't wearing contacts, especially if she wanted a rooftop view. Also why didn't she bring a camera with her to take photos? She does seem to be looking at things closely which seems odd but it's easy to over-analyze things. A part of me wants to say she's drugged or took something but I guess we'll have to wait for more information from the LAPD to be released.

 

[FutzBucket]

I'm sure it's not lit up because she's on that floor. I don't believe she was there by mistake.

Okay, so since you agree that she's on the 14th floor, and you believe she's aware she's on the 14th floor, then why does she keep hitting the button for the 14th floor?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=3TjVBpyTeZM#t=93s

 

[Xavier]

Hi! I’m another newbie/former lurker. I’ve been obsessed with this case and have read all of the prior threads here on it. So much good sleuthing.

I am fairly flummoxed by the video, and since we don’t know how soon she died after that video (minutes? hours), I decided to focus mainly on how she ended up dead in a rooftop water tank. These are the major possibilities I came up with. Please add or refute as you see fit!

How does she get up on the roof?

1. She knows about the fire escape access (or a new friend tells her about it) and climbs up there on her own.
2. She knows from previously trying or from a new friend that the fire door is unlocked and alarm doesn’t work.
3. Someone lures her up there, whether by force (unlikely, IMO) or with the promise of socializing, fun, view of skyline, whatnot.

These first three options mean she goes up on the roof alive and dies there, either by accident, suicide, or homicide. Or she’s dead/unconscious:

4. She is assaulted in her room or elsewhere in the hotel by an employee with roof access through the door (key), or who knows that the door is unlocked/alarm doesn’t work and that the roof is unoccupied. Then she’s brought to the roof by this person, either unconscious or already dead.
5. She is assaulted in her room or elsewhere in the hotel by a fellow guest or longtime resident who knows that the door is unlocked/alarm doesn’t work and that the roof is unoccupied. Then she’s brought to the roof by this person, either unconscious or already dead.

IMO, the least likely scenario is:

6. She is assaulted in her room or elsewhere in the hotel by an employee, resident, or guest and brought up to the roof, either unconscious or dead, to the fire escape. Unless you’ve got two perps, this seems too physically difficult.

How does she get into the water tank?

1. She researches the hotel ahead of time, knows there are tanks, and goes up to the roof with the intent of either playing around in them or killing herself.
2. She is up on the roof, either at the time of her death or earlier, sees the tanks, and decides to climb into one, either playing around or with the intention of killing herself. If an accident, she could be alone or with other people (assuming it’s a game or she’s hiding from someone
3. She is murdered elsewhere and placed in the tank (either view ladder or by dropping her from above).
4. She is murdered on the roof and placed in the tank. (Judging by the

new pics of beer bottles, etc., on the roof, it’s clear this was a party place. Maybe she interrupts an employee/resident party, they assault and kill her, and put her body in the tank.)
5. She falls/overdoses/dies accidentally and is placed in the tank by the people she’s with.
6. She is placed in one of the tanks alive and dies then or later on (presumably from hypothermia, suffocation (if the hatch is closed), or drowning (was this absolutely ruled out?).

BTW, I did a search for people who have died in water tanks. The results I found were either by accident or suicide. The accidents seem to involve children who fell in ground-level tanks or workers who fell in while cleaning a tank. The suicides range from people hanging themselves outside the tank, to drowning themselves inside them (not on rooftops, though, as far as I can tell), to jumping off the outside of tall water tanks. Apparently there is quite a problem with water tank-related suicides in India, but nothing like what we see in this case.

Arguments for/against manner of death:

Accident:
Pro: She sounds free-spirited (solo travel) and friendly. Could have made new friends and tried to climb and enter the tank on a dare. Or she could have tried to hide in it, either from someone chasing her or as the result of a game (it does appear that she could be playing elevator tag in the video). The tank’s latch was apparently unlocked and she could have accessed the roof as described above.
Con: That’s a pretty specific accident to have. I also think that if she died accidentally near the tank, it’s relatively unlikely that her “friends” would have gone through the trouble to put her in the tank. Maybe they’d drag her in back of something or just leave her on the roof, but I would think that if they were freaked out, they’d want to take off asap.

Suicide:
Pro: She’s admittedly depressed, bipolar, confused about her future, and an insomniac. Some of her posts on her pre-Tumbler blog seem rather bleak. A tank seems like a weird place to die, but there have been stranger suicides. As someone here noted earlier, there was also a case of a NJ man who committed suicide in a water tank. People go off into the woods and kill themselves, never to be found—they don’t want to be found right away or ever—so I can see why she might do this.
Con: Why the tank when she could just jump off the roof, hang herself, or presumably OD on prescription meds/drugs in her room? It doesn’t seem like a foolproof way to go. Unless she went into the tank, didn’t die right away, changed her mind, and then couldn’t get out. Plus, could she have closed the hatch to the tank? Also, she was very active on social media and didn’t leave any kind of farewell post, not that this is especially common.

Homicide:
Pro: She’s friendly, outgoing, slightly loopy/silly according to some, a woman, relatively small, and possibly either experiencing a mental break or on some kind of mind-altering medication or drug in the video. All of which is to say, she makes a pretty ideal victim. The hotel has a fairly large population of questionable residents who know the building, as well as short-term international travelers who could make a quick escape. Plus, it has security guards and presumably maintenance men, who may have keys to all the rooms. (I have read about cases where women were raped/murdered in their own apartments by security guards/maintenance men.) BTW, I’m aware that there are at least two sex offenders in the hotel, but they are both pretty old and their convictions were for child rape/molestation. Not saying they couldn’t do this, but she may not be their target victim. Of course, there could be all sorts of other nefarious characters in the hotel.
Con: I think this was a homicide, simply because of the logistics of getting her in the tank. It could be that she was killed accidentally or intentionally. Maybe smothered by pillow mid-assault? However, the killer would have to be someone familiar enough with the building to get up on the roof sight unseen and/or without setting off alarms. I would guess that taking her (dead weight) up the fire escape ladder would be too difficult. Why not just throw her off the building then?

What is she doing in the elevator?

I have no idea, but I lean toward her being drugged on something (either intentionally or not), including Ambien. Google “sleepwalking on Ambien”. It can make you do some crazy stuff—I’ve seen it in my friends and mother, who takes it. I do question the presence of her sandals, etc., if that’s the case, but I suppose if you can drive a car on Ambien, you can put on some shoes and a hoodie.

My other guess is that she’s fooling around or playing elevator tag with someone. If this is the case and she intends to go on the roof later, it might explain the hoodie.

Her glasses: We have no idea what her prescription is, how often she wears them, etc. I wear glasses mainly for distance but tend to take them off if I’m just walking around inside, socializing, etc. The fact is, we just don’t know how bad her eyesight is. If she really can’t see without them, then that could explain her button-pushing behavior, but not really anything else (including how she could climb up a fire escape and/or into a water tank at night if she went willingly).

What I don’t think happened:

- cult sacrifice
- inside job to get publicity for the hotel

The first is intriguing because all the weird coincidences people have mentioned here, but I just don’t think it’s likely.

The second seems less plausible because the new owner (who did the renovations and added Stay) has been very vocal about trying to demonstrate that the Cecil/Stay are not crappy, dangerous, etc. If you read the online reviews (tripadvisor, people’s blogs) he comments and refutes their complaints. Seems like the last thing he would want is bad publicity. Of course, you could argue that someone has it in for him and killed her, but that seems like a bit of a stretch.

In the end, I suspect that, if this case is solved, it will show one of the simpler explanations: She was killed by a resident/employee/guest because they saw an easy mark, tried to assault/rape her, murdered her, and then needed to hide the body because they couldn’t keep it in their room.

JMO, of course. Eager to keep seeing everyone’s ideas!

Good post.... OK the medical examiner found no wounds, no cuts or anything

Can they determine if she was raped, after being submerged in the water tank for a long, long time?

And it was said her clothes caused a valve stoppage and ensuing floor flooding...So were EL's clothes off, was she found naked?

If they did find bottles, etc, hopefully LA LE can get DNA prints off them

 

[ecco]

I just checked out the archives of the tumblr "magrittesque" which is the link you posted & where Elisa reposted this image from. Luckily, Tumblr archives are
always dated and magrittesque reposted the image herself from yet another user on Dec 31st, 2012. It is thus likely that Elisa saw back then it then and queued it to be posted now. It is also obvious that her posts are becoming less and less so that shows that the number of posts she auto qeued is coming to an end.
So it might seem creepy to people not used to tumblr, but to me it is just a little sad but, by itself, is not suspicous at all.

the hermit was actually reblogged by magrittesque on december 31st. if you look at the archive of this user: http://magrittesque.tumblr.com/archive you can see the date of each blog post + reblog post.

Yes you're right, I see it now. I don't know why it was showing me otherwise, I even followed the person and saw the post on the 25th on my dash page. I am familiar with tumblr and the queue but it still does seem a bit odd to me that the posts were posting from the queue like normal and then seemed to have run out and then this posted, unless she had a reason for wanting it posted on this day. I agree though that there's no dark secrets on her tumblr and the timing of it does fit in with a post from her queue.

 

[medsleuth]

Hide and seek game. She finds the perfect spot to hide in the tank. But it's a little too good and the young man (men?) playing with her can't find her. She gets her foot stuck in the piping at the bottom. The guy who was playfully chasing her around the Cecil goes to bed assuming she just blew him off - a brief traveling flirtation. He moves on to another country or who knows where. Over the next 48 hours EL succumbs to hypothermia.

This theory fits with the body language of the elevator - flirtation, relaxed, fun, availability display.

http://www.bodylanguagesuccess.com/2013/02/nonverbal-communication-analysis-2313.html

 

[Xavier]

GREAT analysis! I hope you keep posting

I think she was killed on the roof and then put into the water tank. Carrying her up to the water tank would have been too risky. Don't think it was a resident, but frequent visitor who knew the place well. I've read that the Cecil is often a holding spot for parolees. That seems to be an obvious place to look.

Either she climbed the water tank ladder under orders to get in the tank or the perp carried her into the tank, she probably already dead

 

[FutzBucket]

Hide and seek game. She finds the perfect spot to hide in the tank. But it's a little too good and the young man (men?) playing with her can't find her. She gets her foot stuck in the piping at the bottom. The guy who was playfully chasing her around the Cecil goes to bed assuming she just blew him off - a brief traveling flirtation. He moves on to another country or who knows where. Over the next 48 hours EL succumbs to hypothermia.

This theory fits with the body language of the elevator - flirtation, relaxed, fun, availability display.

http://www.bodylanguagesuccess.com/2013/02/nonverbal-communication-analysis-2313.html

Wow, we've completely different interpretations. So, you basically think this is all a horrible accident?

 

[FiveFelines]

Good post.... OK the medical examiner found no wounds, no cuts or anything

Can they determine if she was raped, after being submerged in the water tank for a long, long time?

And it was said her clothes caused a valve stoppage and ensuing floor flooding...So were EL's clothes off, was she found naked?

If they did find bottles, etc, hopefully LA LE can get DNA prints off them

I don't know the answers and I have the same questions! It's possible that she wasn't necessarily raped but an attempt was made and she died (i.e. hand over her mouth to keep her from screaming suffocates her, etc.). Was it confirmed that her clothes clogged the valve or is that still speculation? There was a report that she was nude, but I don't know if that was confirmed either.

IIRC, the autopsy was inconclusive. I can't remember if there were no marks on her at all or if there was just obvious cause of death. If she was sexually assaulted and if they can tell that, perhaps that's a detail that LE is withholding?

The bottles were in the images from Chinese reporters posted earlier in this thread. No idea if they're new or linked to Elisa or a perp, but I do think they imply that the roof was used for partying (and I'm venture to guess the partying didn't just involve beer).

 

[Kaliste]

Kaliste, I'm new to this site, so I don't have a clear idea what the discussion here is usually like. I think we're not supposed to stifle others' views even if they seem outlandish or try to moderate the discussion ourselves. So maybe we just "let a hundred flowers blossom", so to speak.

But I agree with you on substance. I think we ought to focus on facts and on what's most probable (without definitely ruling out the improbable). Unfortunately, the LAPD has been very tightlipped here. And so we have little to go on.

Still, we know there was a young woman traveling alone in a seedy hotel with known sex offenders as residents and lax security, and that she wound up dead in the hotel's water tank on the roof. That just strongly suggests to me that some sexual predator found her, assaulted her and disposed of the body such that it would not be soon discovered.

And we have the elevator video, in which she's behaving strangely. There is some testimony by an expert and a friend of hers that she seems drugged... At any rate, she is either drugged or experiencing some kind of mental break.

There doesn't seem to have been anyone in the hall when she's in the elevator (though it's possible there was), so that suggests that she was wandering in an altered state of mind, making her vulnerable. Someone found her. Perhaps someone she had already met there. Most likely someone on the hotel staff or a long-term resident who knew how to access the water tanks. That person assaulted her, killed her (maybe by suffocation or through the interaction of a drug with medications) and dumped her body.

That's my theory, anyway. I think its grounded in fact and plausible reasoning, not it wild speculation...

Anyway, this case has captivated me. I feel very sorry for Elisa and her family and friends. I hope to God that they catch whoever killed her and punish him severely.

I probably could have been more tactful I apologize if anyone feels I was trying to stifle or belittle their theory's. The variety of opinions is one of the many things I love about WS.

 

[walklikeacat]

Who killed Elisa Lam?

1/ He has knowledge about the building because he has been living there under a long-time accomodation. Somebody she had been in contact with. Somebody who eventually has an interest in photography and actually has an system camera.
Somebody she at last - that late night - is together with upon the roof. And something went overrides.

2/ He get´s panic and carry her away to some inconspicuous place. Then he walks around trying to find a place to hide her. Maybe he find out that the door to the service-room are unlocked. But he want to hide her completely and sees those water tanks. He walks up on that only ladder to the nearest water tank and find out that
all hatches are unlocked. They don´t even have hinges, they are just applied.
He finds a wooden ladder and puts rather easy Elisa into the tank.

3/ But why didn´t he just throw her away from the roof? That would quite easy have looked like an suicide. I think he got panic and needed to hide the body as fast as possible without being seen.

4/ Where does he live? Of course, the first thought would be at he 4th floor. But I think he lives higher up. I think that Elisa - when she comes to the elevator - has been running up through the stairs from some lower floor. She comes to the elevator on 14th because she wants to further confuse somebody that might have been following her. She don´t know. If she have been meeting a man before, then I don´t think he his living on 14th floor. Maybe 12th...13th floor.

5/ Why did she choose Stay on Main? If you google on "Where to live in Los Angeles, hotel"...then you come to Stay on Main at the first page on he top. And it looks really fresh when you look at their home site. And it is just minutes away by bus from China Town, Little Tokyo and the fashion-districts.

 

[lexycat]

Except Elisa isn't wearing heels. She's wearing flats. You can see them clearly when she jumps out of the elevator.

I've just seen the video that was published in our Local paper here, I'm a bit slow on following this, but, it does appear to me that she is wearing sandals, you can see the back of her heels and her foot is flat to the ground.

It appears to me that, she's under the influence of something mind altering. First off it looks like she is scared and trying to avoid someone, she starts pressing buttons randomly, and then she seems to hang out in the hallway playing with her fingers, its clear her mind is not all there.

I'm wondering if she encountered someone and was given a drink with some kind of drug in it....very strange behaviour.:waitasec: