Elisa Lam - What Happened?

[zaza]

So far I'm sure we're not getting all the facts or at least I'm still discovering them. I have many questions but based on what I've learned so far:
- That her stay in LA was unplanned or impromptu
- she checked into a fairly seedy and unsafe hotel/location in LA
- she only intended to stay a few days
- the video footage depicting "odd" behavior in the elevator
- that she ultimately left the elevator and did not return but subsequently disappeared thereafter
- that there was a loud bang or noise coming from one of the floors/rooms (reference to the 4th floor) and loud enough to awaken and alarm tenant who subsequently fell out of bed
- that the fourth floor flooded the next day
- that Lam's body was found inside one of four water tanks on the roof of the Cecil several weeks later
- that the tanks are lidded but not locked
- that the door(s) to the roof are typically alarmed and locked and access is limited to certain employees.

Based on all of the above, I deduce that Lam made the "unexpected" side trip (unexpected by those friends/family she was in touch with) because she was lured there by a someone she met previously during the travels or met over the Internet. The Cecil was the rendezvous point, they would meet there. The antics in the elevator the night she disappeared seemed to me to depict Lam waiting for someone to join her in the elevator. She gets in, presses buttons to keep the door open, she hides in the corner like you would to jump out and say boo! or surprise! In anticipation of when the friend steps in. I absolutely perceive a happy excitement in her demeanor rather than fear. i do not sense fear at all.
She peeks out the door to see if the person is coming, her hand gestures tell me she's excited, then she goes back into the car to push the buttons again to keep the door open and stationary longer. She peeks out again, and then we see her disappear eventually to the left. I think her friend, whoever that person is showed up and lured her down the hall. I can only imagine where she went next and whether she was killed in the hotel or on the roof but I am certain that someone lured her to the roof using the stairs, had the ability to unlock and disarm the door, and managed to carry her body up the ladder and drop her in the tank. I think she was probably already dead when she was dropped into the water tank.

My questions are: what room/floor was she in?
Did anyone in the hotel ever see her in the company of another person?
What guests checked in around the same time she did?
Who has access to the roof alarm and keys?
Are there videos on the hallways or just the elevators?
Did or are they checking her computer devices to see if she was to make a connection at the Cecil? Email, websites, chat rooms, texts, calls, etc...?
Did she typically stay in independent hotels off the beaten path, so to speak, I mean, rather than reputable chains that are closer to mass transportation, for example, Comfort Inns, La Quintas, etc.?

These are some of my questions. I feel strongly that she was definitely murdered. I hope we learn more facts.
-
-

 

[findinganatta]

Lets for a moment assume, you rea right. I don't say you are, but lets assume it, just for the sake of the argument ...
Even a psychotic person would have to find those tanks first to jump in it. Thus, your theory would make only sense, if, while in a psychotic break, EL went to look for a tank of which she may or may not knew it existed in the first place, to get herself drowned in it ... without any sign of drowning of course, that could show up during the autopsy.
The point is, even if you declare, she was psychotic in the elevator movie, it explains in fact nothing. It doesn't explain, how she came on the roof, how she came in the tank, why nobody saw her in between. The only thing, the "psychotic" theory does is making clear, that she would have drawn even more attention from anyone who crossed her path. But nobody came forward. As of yet, this whole psychotic break theory is kind of an arbitrary idea that sill doesn't explain any of the facts, merely a motivation born from her state of mind.

Where did you hear that drowning was ruled out in the autopsy report? I've yet to see that stated in any report or article, and I haven't seen anyone else here allude to that. If you actually have a legitimate link, please post it. The articles that came out all said the autopsy was inconclusive.

In response to your comments... first of all, none of our theories on this forum explain anything except individual opinions, and all of the theories are pretty arbitrary. We're all speculating based on minimal information. So that's a common denominator. I happen to think that the psychosis aspect is absolutely key, and my theory that she was responsible for her own death is an instinct based on days and days of absorbing information, facts, EL's blog, the elevator video, etc. (And it's a theory that I'm far from positive about, by the way; it's based on a strong instinct and some facts, just like anyone else's--and I would argue that it's based on more sound reasoning than any of the 'kidnapped at the elevator' theories, but that's just my opinion).

Since they've already done one autopsy and officially announced they couldn't determine whether or not foul play was involved, that indicates to me that in fact they did determine she drowned :moo: Here's my reasoning: if she didn't drown, but ended up underwater in the tank, that would indicate foul play. And one would think they would announce such a definitive autopsy conclusion. But if she did drown, it would still be relatively ambiguous whether or not there was foul play--hence the second autopsy before making any definitive announcements. :twocents:

Also, in reference to her finding the tank, there are a couple of reasonable explanations I can think of. One is that she wandered around the building, saw the fire escape, and followed it up to the roof where the tanks were. People experiencing psychosis often wander to very strange places... there are plenty of news stories--and first-hand stories, for some of us--about such situations. Thankfully, they don't usually involve death.

Another possible explanation is that she was made aware of the roof previous to her death, and was attracted to going back up there at some point.

This is all just my opinion, and I'm not looking to argue with anyone... Just trying to discuss the case since it's so baffling and strange (and obviously upsetting).

 

[bessie]

When a series of asterisks appears in a link, it means the site is off limits, verboten.

ETA: Just to be clear, we don't discuss articles from banned sites because if we can't link it up, we can't post it.

 

[nerdy]

Did she typically stay in independent hotels off the beaten path, so to speak, I mean, rather than reputable chains that are closer to mass transportation, for example, Comfort Inns, La Quintas, etc.?
-

(Snipped for brevity.)

I just wanted to add some information as a local about this. The Cecil is very close to mass transit, being close to Union Station and the major Metro lines. LA has horrible public transit and downtown is the easiest access to it.

We have no chain hotels downtown. The Cecil is the only really affordable option, and I just recommended it to a friend before this all came to pass. It borders on a very trendy part of town where lots of college students live. The area is close to FIDM and USC with many renovated lofts that rent for a hefty price.

 

[noodled1]

Where did you hear that drowning was ruled out in the autopsy report?

Respectfully snipped

It hasn't been ruled out, it one of the things the more detailed results will look for. The coroner even remarked as such in his comments

 

[neo]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but Chelsea did Psychic reading-

http://chelseadamali.wordpress.com/...-of-elisa-lam-the-unexpected-psychic-reading/

Update

http://chelseadamali.wordpress.com/...l-hotel-elisa-lam-reading-with-announcements/

Another Update

http://chelseadamali.wordpress.com/2013/03/01/elisa-lam-the-cecil-hotel-and-illuminati-involvement/

Also she did Psychic reading on Cecil Hotel last year..very interesting stuff

http://chelseadamali.wordpress.com/...d-encounters-face-to-face-on-the-bio-channel/



We have supernatural/occult option in vote poll thread. why not have paranormal thread on this topic itself.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Where did you hear that drowning was ruled out in the autopsy report? I've yet to see that stated in any report or article, and I haven't seen anyone else here allude to that. If you actually have a legitimate link, please post it. The articles that came out all said the autopsy was inconclusive.

In response to your comments... first of all, none of our theories on this forum explain anything except individual opinions, and all of the theories are pretty arbitrary. We're all speculating based on minimal information. So that's a common denominator. I happen to think that the psychosis aspect is absolutely key, and my theory that she was responsible for her own death is an instinct based on days and days of absorbing information, facts, EL's blog, the elevator video, etc. (And it's a theory that I'm far from positive about, by the way; it's based on a strong instinct and some facts, just like anyone else's--and I would argue that it's based on more sound reasoning than any of the 'kidnapped at the elevator' theories, but that's just my opinion).

Since they've already done one autopsy and officially announced they couldn't determine whether or not foul play was involved, that indicates to me that in fact they did determine she drowned :moo: Here's my reasoning: if she didn't drown, but ended up underwater in the tank, that would indicate foul play. And one would think they would announce such a definitive autopsy conclusion. But if she did drown, it would still be relatively ambiguous whether or not there was foul play--hence the second autopsy before making any definitive announcements. :twocents:

Also, in reference to her finding the tank, there are a couple of reasonable explanations I can think of. One is that she wandered around the building, saw the fire escape, and followed it up to the roof where the tanks were. People experiencing psychosis often wander to very strange places... there are plenty of news stories--and first-hand stories, for some of us--about such situations. Thankfully, they don't usually involve death.

Another possible explanation is that she was made aware of the roof previous to her death, and was attracted to going back up there at some point.

This is all just my opinion, and I'm not looking to argue with anyone... Just trying to discuss the case since it's so baffling and strange (and obviously upsetting).

That's all great and fine, and of course, you have a right to have an opinion. But at the end of the day, the relevant question is "how did she end up dead in that tank".
So, psychosis or not, drugs or not, divine intervention or not, EVERY usable theory should try to give at least a possible explanation how her body got in that tank. <modsnip>

 

[mj12]

Sorry I've been flying in black helicopters whole of last week and have little reception in Dreamland.

Has there been any update/news/rumours since? I find it strange with such a bizarre death has not got a lot of attention by the Western media. The LAPD seem to be holding their cards very close to their chest...or they simly have no idea what happened.

At this rate, everyone is keeping schtum, maybe waiting for a possible murderer to slip up. Looks like we have to wait for the tox results. We still don't know 100% from confirmed reliable sources that she was found with no clothes on.

http://chelseadamali.wordpress.com/2013/03/01/elisa-lam-the-cecil-hotel-and-illuminati-involvement/

No comment

 

[Buckeye lady]

If she's never had psychotic episodes before, she likely didn't have one in the elevator. She was only talking to her "invisible friend", outside the elevator - not inside, which would suggest there was someone there.

The only "proof" of psychosis is an elevator video with no audio and limited scope of vision.


"If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"

It does seem odd for her to be psychotic if the day before she was perfectly fine when she talked to the owner of the bookstore.

 

[findinganatta]

Respectfully snipped

It hasn't been ruled out, it one of the things the more detailed results will look for. The coroner even remarked as such in his comments

I thought that was the case. Thanks!

That's all great and fine, and of course, you have a right to have an opinion. But at the end of the day, the relevant question is "how did she end up dead in that tank".
So, psychosis or not, drugs or not, divine intervention or not, EVERY usable theory should try to give at least a possible explanation how her body got in that tank. <modsnip>

<modsnip>

 

[neo]

Sorry I've been flying in black helicopters whole of last week and have little reception in Dreamland.

Has there been any update/news/rumours since? I find it strange with such a bizarre death has not got a lot of attention by the Western media. The LAPD seem to be holding their cards very close to their chest...or they simly have no idea what happened.

At this rate, everyone is keeping schtum, maybe waiting for a possible murderer to slip up. Looks like we have to wait for the tox results. We still don't know 100% from confirmed reliable sources that she was found with no clothes on.



No comment

yea i know, i dont believe in that illuminati thing as well. But the first and last link in my post are very good read.

 

[Perplexed 123]

I think she was dead before entering the tank, otherwise water would have been in her lungs and shown up in the autopsy. I don't really believe it was anything paranormal (I'm skeptical about that sort of thing) so the only other option left for me is that she was given drugs which ended her life and then dumped in to the tank. If the area to the roof is secure, this points to a hotel worker, if it was unsecured, a hotel guest. Perhaps a long term guest knew some trick to open the door, but then the reports that the rooftop was routinely used for deals/hangout etc and the security of the hotel itself, it could have been anyone familiar with the hotel.

 

[findinganatta]

If she's never had psychotic episodes before, she likely didn't have one in the elevator. She was only talking to her "invisible friend", outside the elevator - not inside, which would suggest there was someone there.

The only "proof" of psychosis is an elevator video with no audio and limited scope of vision.

"If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"

This may have been mentioned in an older EL thread, but someone purporting to be EL's "good friend" posted on Reddit. Some other Reddit users investigated this person's claim and were convinced. For whatever it's worth, this "friend" stated that EL had some "strange episodes" in the past, had disappeared for a period of time on at least one occasion, and that her parents refused to discuss her problems. Also, this person said they thought illegal drugs would be unlikely to have contributed.

I've wondered why she quit going to college last Spring... like if she had some particular reasoning, or if there were issues that got in the way of her performance. If anyone has read anything, I'd be interested to hear.
<modsnip>

 

[Xavier]

I think she was dead before entering the tank, otherwise water would have been in her lungs and shown up in the autopsy. I don't really believe it was anything paranormal (I'm skeptical about that sort of thing) so the only other option left for me is that she was given drugs which ended her life and then dumped in to the tank. If the area to the roof is secure, this points to a hotel worker, if it was unsecured, a hotel guest. Perhaps a long term guest knew some trick to open the door, but then the reports that the rooftop was routinely used for deals/hangout etc and the security of the hotel itself, it could have been anyone familiar with the hotel.

I agree, IMO all along I've believed this is an insider job, gotta be who would think of placing a body in the roof water tanks unless it's some wack-job living or working for the Cecil

This poor girl didnt have a chance, bad vision, loopy animated behavior, maybe elevated behavior from meds, etc

She was a sitting duck and was easily manipulated by this perp punk IMO

It's like bears who hunt the weakest most vulnerable injured deer in the herd

I really hope her family finds some peace, though it won't be easy

And the Chinese media get big props for their incredible persistance and diligence to find the perp and resolve this case

 

[Courage100]

It does seem odd for her to be psychotic if the day before she was perfectly fine when she talked to the owner of the bookstore.

I know the book store owner said that, but there was a person in this forum who said that they knew someone in the bookstore who saw her acting strange:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8923299&postcount=3"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #3[/ame]

The only "proof" of psychosis is an elevator video with no audio and limited scope of vision.

Besides the witnesses seeing her acting weird in the link above, she also was taking multiple drugs that she blogged about and also said she suffered from things like depression, bipolar disorder, insomnia, and maybe more. The video also shows her inexplicably pressing all the same buttons in a pattern, including the hold button, which I still have found no convincing explanation for if she wasn't in some kind of disoriented state.

 

[noodled1]

I thought that was the case. Thanks!

Despite your unnecessary condescension and the fact that you changed the subject after I replied to you, I am curious how you came to the conclusion that it's physically impossible for EL to have gotten into the tank herself...

It's not, as a matter of fact the easiest way physically for Elisa to end up in that tank is to put herself in it.

 

[findinganatta]

It's not, as a matter of fact the easiest way physically for Elisa to end up in that tank is to put herself in it.

I agree, and that becomes even more true when you add to it the fact that she had no obvious physical trauma despite the pipes and other obstacles to getting a body into that specific tank. It seems highly unlikely that anyone who was dumping a body would find it necessary to spend the time and care required to avoid causing markings to the body (assuming it would've even been possible).

I've wondered why she quit going to college last Spring... like if she had some particular reasoning, or if there were issues that got in the way of her performance. If anyone has read anything, I'd be interested to hear.

I just happened to read part of EL's 'Ether Fields' blog for the first time, and she answered this quoted question that I was wondering earlier. She stated that she'd been in college for three years and only completed three classes, dropping all of the others due to her depression/psych issues. And based on her medication Tumblr entry, she obviously had pretty intense mania problems, too. Reading this stuff first-hand really clarifies for me just how serious her psych problems were : / (which is not to disparage her, because I've suffered with my own issues... it's just relevant info)

 

[findinganatta]

Good Evening findinganatta,

- a couple questions..

from watching the elevator video...do you think Elisa Lam is under the influence of drugs?..maybe having a "bad trip"

do you think intense paranoia may have been why she went to the roof?

you seem familiar with the effects of being in that state of mind.....what's your gut say?

Respectfully trimmed

Sorry I missed your reply earlier. I believe it's quite possible she was on drugs, like some kind of psychedelic (although I am just as open to the idea that it was natural psychosis, as discussed below). She doesn't appear to be having a full-on bad trip in the elevator video, but in my experience you can't always judge the qualitative nature of a trip purely from external behavior.

Some people have suggested she might have been 'sleep walking' (for lack of a better description) due to prescription sleeping meds. This idea seems possible, but much less likely based on her behavior, IMO.

Your idea that paranoia may have led her to the roof actually seems quite possible to me, especially given her personality type (self-admittedly antisocial unless manic). If she were getting seriously paranoid, which can happen at the drop of a dime on psychedelics, she may have felt that both the inside of the building and the street were too intense and scary. Hell, she may have felt the roof was too intense (loud, open, etc), and ended up desperately trying to hide... making a terrible decision in the process.

But assuming she indeed went to the roof by her own choice, there are a number of likely reasons, IMO, especially if it's true she was having a psychotic break and/or was on drugs.

So my gut tells me she was definitely experiencing psychosis; either naturally, through drug use, or due to drugs inducing and/or exacerbating a natural episode.

I don't think she ever overtly stated in her blog that she'd previously experienced psychosis, but she did reference psychosis in a way that leads me to believe it was an issue for her; based on her other symptoms, it would probably either be manic/bipolar psychosis or a psychotic depression (anyone who is curious about specific psych issues that could lead a person to end up in a water tank might be interested in researching psychotic depression--it's the form of psychosis that most fits with what she revealed about her own disorders, IMO).

Obviously I'm simply stating my own opinions here, but I've considered them as carefully as possible. Thanks for the comments, especially the paranoia/roof part

:moo:

 

[Peter Brendt]

I thought that was the case. Thanks!

Despite your unnecessary condescension and the fact that you changed the subject after I replied to you, I am curious how you came to the conclusion that it's physically impossible for EL to have gotten into the tank herself...

I didn't change the subject, I only want to point out, that even in the case of a psychotic break, the psychotic break alone doesn't tell how she came into that tank.
And while nobody explicitly said, her clothes weren't found, I still think, if they would have actually found the clothes, it would have been released, just to support the statement, it was no foul play. So, this leaves me with a nude body in a water tank and no clothes, no cell phone and also no glasses.
Now, I can construct something, that she forgot the glasses at home in Canada (since it seems they weren't found in her room). Relying on glasses myself, I think, it's unlikely, but it's not entirely unheard of.
I can also construct something, that all her clothes were blown away by the wind from the roof. That makes what? At least a pair of light sandals/flip-flops, a t-shirt, pants, undies and maybe a bar. T-shirt, maybe the pants if light enough, have more surface than weight and are prone to be blown away. But the sandals or flip-flops? They would end up in a wind pocket since the roof is not only surrounded by a wall but there are also other structures creating wind pockets, for example the tanks and the elevator shed. So, it's not entirely impossible, only highly unlikely, that all clothes are blown away by the wind.
And then there is the cell-phone. Well, a storm like Sandy for example, or a tornado, those would carry a cell phone away. Thieves would also. If they would come to the roof in time and accidentally find the pile of clothes with the cell phone. A thief would also take a purse or wallet with credit cards, which appear also missing. But then, there would be hits on the credit cards after EL disappeared. Well, with a lot of effort, I can maybe construct something for those items too. Something highly unlikely but not entirely impossible.
The mathematical problem is, that a combination in which exactly three highly unlikely events happen at the same time is against 1/infinite. And it goes even nearer against infinite the more conditions I add to the whole. For example the probability, nobody saw her actually on the way up or, and here the circle clothes, didn't notice someone in a psychotic break displaying errant behavior.

So, seriously, if you have the opion, EL was in some kind of psychotic break, it's fine. But even if she was, it doesn't answer the question, that really bothers me. She could have, physically possible, climbed in the tank. But then it is physically impossible, her clothes, her flip-flops, her cell phone and her credit cards and glasses walked off on their own.

And on a personal side note: I am used, that every time, I point out, that a theory someone obviously has fallen in love with, is impossible or incomplete, I am accused of being condescending. Sorry, people see it that way and try to throw dirt at me instead of correcting the flaws in the theory. But truth is ... even apologies for seeing them doesn't change the gaps in a theory, nor will ignoring problems in a theory for reasons of political correctness correct the problems in the theory. So I would seriously prefer that, instead of the author of a theory being upset, the theory would go back to the drawing board.

 

[nursebeeme]

reminder: you can discuss the case and have an opinion. All opinions are welcome. you CANNOT personalize your posts in a snarky manner or attack one another.