Elisa Lam - What Happened?

[gitana1]

Well put. That is my main contention too on the psychotic break theory. Psychosis in the context of her reported bipolar depression and/or bipolar disorder does not just happen with no warning, though if she had been drugged there may an acute psychosis, but if this was organic it is usually mood congruent. People who are in a manic phase generally have delusions of grandeur; they do not want to kill themselves or mistake a water tank for a midnight dip in the roof top "pool".

As for the "diagnoses" of psychotic break based on her Tumblr posts and that short video...for shame. People write as if they know her. How do we know that she was going out to bars alone? Even if she went alone, many people do and meet friends there. Not all women travel in packs. She also mentioned that she was looking for Meetup groups for social connection while in CA, and she was with a "friend'' at the Speakeasy. How do we see her as anti-social?

Think about it...you area reading a blog of a girl you say had a distorted sense of reality, so how then can you take all that she writes at face value and conclude anything reliable from it? Her distorted reality becomes your distorted conclusion.

Finally, the fact that she did blend in and no one noticed any odd behaviors prior to the elevator says volumes. If she was having a reality lapse while there it is really curious that her first experience manifested only the night before she checked out and was conveniently captured on video.

I am not dismissing the idea that a mental health issue played a part in this, but many who believe this are ignoring other key things that counter it. I feel sorry for this girl even more; I think that people are way more complex. If you did not know EL personally, there is no way of knowing her mental state from a short, silent video with no context. Buster Keaton without title cards would have been psychotic too.

Just wondering if EL had not blabbed she was having mental health problems, would you still say she was experiencing psychosis based on the video alone?

BBM.

Yes. I saw the video before I heard anything about Elisa having any type of mental health history at all. In fact, my earliest posts on this thread indicate that. I learned about her mental health history here, after first watching the video and instantly recognizing what appears to me to be a mental break from reality of some sort.

All I heard when I saw the video was that she had gone missing and was found dead.

 

[gitana1]

Gosh, I guess LAPD didn't follow it either ... on Feb 6, the day they first went public with this case, they referred to her disappearance as "suspicious" and "may suggest foul play":

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013...n-suspicious-disappearance-of-canadian-woman/

I don't know how anyone would interpret that any other way.

ETA: The above information was contained in Post #1, Thread #1 by our Mod Summer_Breeze on Feb 6 at 11:19 am:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013

I;m not seeing how the poster's post contradicts what you linked to. She or he was trying to explain that in the beginning of the case, all we really heard was that it was a missing person's case - nothing about Elisa's mental health issues and nothing to suggest she had any break from reality while at the hotel.

That the police also said her disappearance was suspicious and could indicate foul play has zero to do with a bias created due to learning Elisa had mental issues, prior to viewing the video. In fact, IMO, it has the opposite effect.

Next to Elisa's actions in the video, the physical aspects of the video itself are most puzzling.

Firstly, LAPD released the video which is closest or close to the last seen of her for a higher chance of someone remembering seeing her before she went missing. I don't think there is any question as to the motive of releasing this particular video.

Thanks to the YouTube poster of the speed-up video however, these questions deserve answers:

1. Why was the video slowed down? Was it to make it easier for police to pick up small details that might be useful and for all to have a clearer look at Elisa's features?

2. The video shows the duration between 0:22 to 0:26. (Supposedly 12:22-26 am, Feb 1st). Now every 3s of the actual footage has been slowed down to 4s, which means the 4-min long video we see is actually 3 minutes long originally. Yet the duration of the video seen from the counter is 12:22-26, almost exactly 4 min long too. As pointed out, this can be accounted for by the missing 54s and the three jump cuts just before the elevator door closes. Now why is this 1-min footage missing? If it was the motion sensor cutting off the video, then what caused it to cut back on just before the three jump cuts? I doubt it was edited out by a perp and the timing manipulated to fool the police. It would be naive to think the police would not scrutinize such things.

3. In fact, why release all 4 minutes of the video in the first place given that Elisa no longer appears from the 2:30 mark? Would it not be more convenient to just cut off the video at 2:30, instead of extending it and thus revealing the missing 54 minutes and the three jump cuts? I do not believe the timing counter was deliberately blurred out for it seems like a half-hearted effort if it was so. It would simply be easier to just black it out.

Really puzzling issues but unlikely that a hotel employee was responsible for the missing minute, because LAPD has denied the rumor that a hotel employee has been detained. And so far no indication that the police are pursuing a foul play investigation.

Great questions. Why wasn't thew video cut off? Why would they keep the end while cutting out the middle? Makes no sense.

One thing though, the police have definitely pursued the foul play angle. They have to when there is a missing person and then the person's body is found. Also, the police indicated early on that her disappearance may suggest foul play and was suspicious.

 

[Sillybilly]

I;m not seeing how the poster's post contradicts what you linked to. She or he was trying to explain that in the beginning of the case, all we really heard was that it was a missing person's case - nothing about Elisa's mental health issues and nothing to suggest she had any break from reality while at the hotel.

<rsbm>

I interpreted the post differently and took the reference to “missing only” to convey that foul play was not a consideration when it had been so from the outset.

Courage didn’t quote anyone, so it appeared to me they were referring to the immediately preceding posts by Peter and Paint (wrt them not agreeing with a psychotic break scenario). I believed the insinuation was that, if others were leaning towards anything other than a psychotic break theory, they obviously hadn’t followed the case from the beginning.

JMO

 

[Peter Brendt]

<rsbm>

I interpreted the post differently and took the reference to “missing only” to convey that foul play was not a consideration when it had been so from the outset.

Courage didn’t quote anyone, so it appeared to me they were referring to the immediately preceding posts by Peter and Paint (wrt them not agreeing with a psychotic break scenario). I believed the insinuation was that, if others were leaning towards anything other than a psychotic break theory, they obviously hadn’t followed the case from the beginning.

JMO

Something got messed up in the course of this situation. My original saying was, that everybody who got involved in any way with this case got involved only after it was already clear that something happened to her. Which consequently changed the perception. You look different at a person's behavior if you know, she disappeared from a hotel or she was found dead in a water tank. What under other conditions would be the playful behavior of a young person together with other young persons in a hotel, now becomes in the perception now something sinister. And from thereon everything, she ever wrote., mentioned or ate will be reinterpreted as drugs, psychotic breaks and so on. Get the order right. The psychological problems discussion stems, IMO, at least partially from the knowledge something happened to her. Not vice versa.

 

[Conductor71]

All I heard when I saw the video was that she had gone missing and was found dead.

I didn't mean to imply that at all; sorry I was unclear. I too thought maybe psych issues before I knew of her Tumblr or blog. My point is more that it may have some relevance but some here began posting as if they knew her personally and started posting as if this were all fact. Yes, she suffered from depression; the police acknowledged this, but all I can see of bipolar she mentions it once. That she supposedly "has it"; however, she is referring to lamotrigine which is both an anti-depressant and mood stabilizer. She was taking three psychostimulants; that can easily land one in treatment induced hypomania (speak from experience here). Perhaps her doctor gave her the lamotrogine to balance the other drugs? Normally, benzos help (Xanax or Klonopin), but they don't mix well with depression. I am just saying there are other medical possibilities that induce what looks like bi-polar disorder like that or vitamin/mineral deficiciencies and thyroid. Regardless of when the video was viewed; no one has acknowledged those other things or seems to note that positive things she had to say about life.

A lot of people who see the video comment she seems like she is goofing off or being playful in the elevator; while others see it as psychosis. Huge difference. I just think it is unfair to EL and her family to tag her with any sort of label based on what little we know, imho.

Kunibob summed it up nicely:

I was commenting on people reading too much into her posts with sort of a confirmation bias angle... of people trying to paint her as severely depressed and trying to use the occasional post on her Tumblr as evidence that she was suicidal or whatever...Elisa's Tumblr does not show evidence that she was suicidal.

We can learn more about her from the overall vibe, but trying to analyse little nitpicky details is where we start to steer away from the evidence.

<Respectively snipped for length>

 

[Perodicticus potto]

Wow that's expensive...

So I'm thinking we can cross cult crazed brain numb zombies from the veggie farm off the list of possibles....

:lol: Just to be clear, I didn't mean to imply the place was a cult or had any connection to her death - was just replying to someone else's question about why she might have gone there.

 

[TheRoger]

I'm not ever saying that psychosis is not a possibility here. What I am saying is that any 'mental health professional' who can make a diagnosis based on a limited view 2 minute video is stretching to say the least. Gitana offered a lengthy definition of psychosis that states an episode is a minimum of one day and the only characteristic of the video that I can see is disorganized behaviour without a complete frame of reference available. Could describe anyone having a bad day or a bad 2 minutes. In no way enough evidence to confirm anything.

 

[OCSlacker]

Ill send my husband if some of you go. We have a baby and honestly I'm too chicken to do it without my husband or someone I'm close too. However he'd be great going. So let me know and ill let him know. We r in LA obviously. 10 minutes from the Hotel. I'm still so curious as to so many things......

If your husband is interested in going that would be great. If we don't go this weekend I would like to go when godsdog gets back in town. PM me and we can work out a time. My original idea was to rent a room and try to answer the various questions from the forum. Definitely want to look in the machine room on the roof and have a go at disarming the door to the roof , climbing the fire escape etc. Hopefully your husband will be OK with exploring the hotel a bit.

 

[findinganatta]

If your husband is interested in going that would be great. If we don't go this weekend I would like to go when godsdog gets back in town. PM me and we can work out a time. My original idea was to rent a room and try to answer the various questions from the forum. Definitely want to look in the machine room on the roof and have a go at disarming the door to the roof , climbing the fire escape etc. Hopefully your husband will be OK with exploring the hotel a bit.

Oh wow, you guys are going full tilt on this exploration. Guess you might as well if you're going to bother at all

By disarm, do you mean removing the 9 volt battery? Try not to get yourselves into any trouble, as cool as it would be to see what you come up with.

One thing about this case that's weird is the 'crime scene' of it. The roof of a hotel which, while accessible, is basically unknown by the public, and somewhat difficult/risky to venture to. Yet it's unguarded and essentially unmonitored, so amateurism sleuthing types can simply go and investigate a crime and/or mystery scene of a case that is so new and unsolved. Maybe I'm incorrect, but it seems like most of these situations are on either private property (house, yard, etc), guarded/conspicuous locations, or are accessible and crowded/tainted by many curious visitors. So the accessible roof of a hotel seems to have some unique qualities for an exploration like this.

 

[Peter Brendt]

If your husband is interested in going that would be great. If we don't go this weekend I would like to go when godsdog gets back in town. PM me and we can work out a time. My original idea was to rent a room and try to answer the various questions from the forum. Definitely want to look in the machine room on the roof and have a go at disarming the door to the roof , climbing the fire escape etc. Hopefully your husband will be OK with exploring the hotel a bit.

Do we have EL's room number? And maybe a rough layout (a few pencil lines would be good enough for my purposes). I am still working on that math thing, but about the time frame of the elevator video now. But then, as I said earlier, I appreciate any information, I can get.

 

[four_seasons]

Do we have EL's room number? And maybe a rough layout (a few pencil lines would be good enough for my purposes). I am still working on that math thing, but about the time frame of the elevator video now. But then, as I said earlier, I appreciate any information, I can get.

there is a layout posted on the site somewhere by a chinese media that went in. it was pretty detailed but nothing about EL's room number.

try here: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200697"]Chinese/Cantonese Media -- **Help! Translations Needed** - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[four_seasons]

Do we have EL's room number? And maybe a rough layout (a few pencil lines would be good enough for my purposes). I am still working on that math thing, but about the time frame of the elevator video now. But then, as I said earlier, I appreciate any information, I can get.

check from this page onwards...
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199904&page=10

 

[Peter Brendt]

Thanks, I knew it was somewhere, but couldn't find it. Too bad all the laibafiles are deleted or access denied now.

 

[four_seasons]

Thanks, I knew it was somewhere, but couldn't find it. Too bad all the laibafiles are deleted or access denied now.

try clicking into the main link at the top of each post. you should be able to see it from there.

 

[Sillybilly]

What are the "laibafiles"?

 

[tapu]

What are the "laibafiles"?

:what: I was afraid to ask....

 

[Sillybilly]

:what: I was afraid to ask....

Well yes ... and i was vewwy, vewwy careful when I typed the question

 

[fred&edna]

:what: I was afraid to ask....

I thought I was the only one curious about these files :facepalm:

 

[Conductor71]

You may have all shared this, but it is one I hadn't seen out there at all. It is raw extended footage of the roof just after the LAFD arrive. They still are trying to figure out how to retrieve the body, and it gives some excellent aerial shots.

Anyways, while we all wait on toxicology, watch this video and see if it changes your mind about anything... (2 min after annoying ad)



Extended video: police probe roof of LA hotel

The one thing that it reinforces for me is that girl did not just fall or lower her self into that tank. Those pipes are all in the way. She would have to lift her weight up over the pipes. Possible as she was fairly athletic, but it would hardly be a graceful maneuver if in any altered mind state, imho.

Also from this angle, it also looks like it would have been quite easy to lower a body into the tank from the top of that storage area (up the red ladder).

 

[Sillybilly]

On one of EL's tumblr pages that seems prior to the Cali trip, she states that her cell phone is misplaced. Seems to be 2 lost cells in approx 1 month:

http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/tagged/life