Any Elisa Updates At All?

[findinganatta]

Also, I gleaned these contradictory facts: 1) she was found naked and upside down inside the water tank. In other words, she went in head first. 2) she was found on the bottom of the tank. Not sure what the truth is.

I'm still leaning toward murder. Wish the ME would hurry up with the final report.

While there is some relevance to the position of her body in the tank, from my understanding bodies float and sink as they decompose, possibly twice (hence the term "refloaters" used by body search teams to refer to bodies that have floated, sunk, and then refloated, if my memory serves).

Anyway, due to this natural movement, as well as the conditions of the tank (cold water, the water flow within the tank, etc), it's been difficult to assess what the relevance of the body position is. If anyone knows more based on personal expertise, feel free to chime in

 

[zaza]

While there is some relevance to the position of her body in the tank, from my understanding bodies float and sink as they decompose, possibly twice (hence the term "refloaters" used by body search teams to refer to bodies that have floated, sunk, and then refloated, if my memory serves).

Anyway, due to this natural movement, as well as the conditions of the tank (cold water, the water flow within the tank, etc), it's been difficult to assess what the relevance of the body position is. If anyone knows more based on personal expertise, feel free to chime in

Well, I think it also depends on the interior of the tank. There have been some descriptions of the body being wedged inside. I bring it up because I think there might be some clues here as to whether she got there by herself or if someone forced her dead body into the tank. It would probably be easier to force a dead body into the tank head first if one had to climb the ladder with the body over ones shoulder. But we're missing so much information like how large was the opening into the tank for a body to pass through. She was very thin for 5'5" at approx. 110. Forcing a body in head first would be less difficult than feet first if one is at the top of a ladder wielding a dead body. The tanks are approx. 10' in depth.
There are so many rumors and conspiracy theories out there about the circumstances surrounding this poor woman's death. I'd just like to get some facts so we can get to the truth. Her poor family must be mortified. I hope this case doesn't just fade away. I hope there will be justice for Elisa. :heart:

 

[mj12]

Unless something has happened in last few days, its still not confirmed she was found naked. It came from one reporter, and none of the credible news agencies have followed with it

 

[zaza]

There seems to be a lot of speculation that there is a cover up of some kind - personally, I hate that kind of thinking. I'd like to think that since this is an international incident the LAPD would be more apt to stay on top of it. Maybe they are and that's why they're slow to report. Let's hope so.

 

[findinganatta]

Well, I think it also depends on the interior of the tank. There have been some descriptions of the body being wedged inside. I bring it up because I think there might be some clues here as to whether she got there by herself or if someone forced her dead body into the tank. It would probably be easier to force a dead body into the tank head first if one had to climb the ladder with the body over ones shoulder. But we're missing so much information like how large was the opening into the tank for a body to pass through. She was very thin for 5'5" at approx. 110. Forcing a body in head first would be less difficult than feet first if one is at the top of a ladder wielding a dead body. The tanks are approx. 10' in depth.
There are so many rumors and conspiracy theories out there about the circumstances surrounding this poor woman's death. I'd just like to get some facts so we can get to the truth. Her poor family must be mortified. I hope this case doesn't just fade away. I hope there will be justice for Elisa. :heart:

I agree completely about the cover-up/conspiracy theories. I think the reasons for her death are probably much more mundane than that... based on all of the info I've seen, I suspect it was an accidental death brought on by psychosis due to mental illness, drug use, or both. That's just my opinion after pouring over the evidence (both official and non-official), what is known of her history, and the behavior of the authorities and her family since her body was found. In my scenario, there would have been no reason for anyone to put her in the tank, because she got in there herself--probably not realizing that she wouldn't be able to get out, or not even knowing what she was doing in a logical sense. There are some potential facts that might complicate this theory, but I'm pretty sure that's true for ALL of the reasonable theories. Such is the case when you have so few facts, and many of the ones you have are unsubstantiated.

This has been discussed in detail on this forum, but "wedged" seems to have been a term that the media ran with based on no factual information. It's one of those words that's just vague enough to keep reporters out of trouble for misreporting, but intriguing enough to make it lead-worthy. It doesn't make sense that she would need to be "wedged" into the tank given its proportions and her size. In my less cynical moments, I would guess is that the word probably came about because some reporter or a source either misused the word or thought the tank was smaller than it is. And after that word got published once, it spread to other media sources because it sounded intriguing (or it could have been in a news wire story).

There is a good video on Youtube in which a guy went onto the Cecil roof and filmed the tanks from above, from the roof of the utility/elevator room. It shows very clearly how large the tank opening is, and the guy shooting the video even estimates the size (don't remember exactly--maybe 18"x18"?). But even by watching and seeing the tank opening in context, it's clear that it would have fit EL's body size without any wedging. The guy who shot it estimated that a non-obese, adult male body would have fit through quite easily, and Elisa was certainly much more petite than that. Unfortunately, I'm not finding the video with a simple search--maybe someone else here can link it? It's by far the best we have in terms of solid details about the size and shape of the tank and its opening--through visual comparison, the opening's size can be estimated with good accuracy.

There is another video with a guy who uses a dummy body that is EL's size and weight and attempts to reenact what would have been involved if a single person placed her body in the tank, assuming she was deceased and placed there. He used a ladder and 'tank' of the same sizes. It's a little morbid, no doubt, but helpful in visualizing what such a scenario might have involved (youtube search "elisa lam duffle" - the same account has a video about the type of alarm on the roof access door, as well as a video of the Cecil roof that does not show the tank opening's size).

So all of these sizes have been established, and the scenarios have been played out with relative accuracy.

 

[Conductor71]

I just e-mailed a few reporters. I went to the CBC site to find an email contact and the videos we have referred to have been removed or are "currently unavailable". We are going on 10 weeks now. I don't believe in any sort of conspiracy theory, but all of this is just odd to say the least. I do not believe for a minute that the delay is due to a backlog of work through the county medical examiner's office. Not sure what is going on. A friend of mine suggested that likely the report is completed, but LE just does not intend to make it public at this time. Any other thoughts or ideas?

 

[walklikeacat]

A friend of mine suggested that likely the report is completed, but LE just does not intend to make it public at this time. Any other thoughts or ideas?

I am thinking the same that they are done. I don´t live in LA or USA but is it always common that they make such statements as a rule in every case, I mean by media? It would take another month by these two first months counting from February 21. So I will wait until May 21. And afterwards? More of own contact with media and try to make interest in this case.

 

[walklikeacat]

One suggestion from my side. Can someone write a post with a short summary in which issues of importance for Elisa Lam case are described. A post that can be copied up to be sent to newsrooms or people in authority. It would do to obtain a more rapid spread. I could do it myself but English is not my native language. We could also help one to edit it here.
And more suggestions on where and to whom to send it.

 

[Conductor71]

I am thinking the same that they are done. I don´t live in LA or USA but is it always common that they make such statements as a rule in every case, I mean by media? It would take another month by these two first months counting from February 21. So I will wait until May 21. And afterwards? More of own contact with media and try to make interest in this case.

I just got a reply by one of the original reporters on the EL story and he told me he contacted coroner's office and was given same info. Due to a backlog, blah, blah, and no time frame for when they would be finished. Does this mean that they have ruled out foul play? I would think the toxicology report would be higher priority if they thought it homicide?

 

[findinganatta]

I just e-mailed a few reporters. I went to the CBC site to find an email contact and the videos we have referred to have been removed or are "currently unavailable". We are going on 10 weeks now. I don't believe in any sort of conspiracy theory, but all of this is just odd to say the least. I do not believe for a minute that the delay is due to a backlog of work through the county medical examiner's office. Not sure what is going on. A friend of mine suggested that likely the report is completed, but LE just does not intend to make it public at this time. Any other thoughts or ideas?

I originally had no issue buying into the backlog thing. But since EL's case, I've paid more attention to that topic as I watch documentary shows and read stories about other cases, some of which are in LA and other big cities. And honestly, this appears unusually long (very much so) even for LA, and even for comprehensive tox testing.

Is it possible that the family has requested that they don't release info? I don't know how the laws work about that, depending on whether it's suspected to be an accident, possible foul play, suicide, etc. Since the story has completely disappeared from the Western media at this point (even Canadian, from what I've seen), they don't seem to have any great pressure to release the info, so maybe the family's wishes would be taken into account more?

I also wondered if they were keeping it quiet because they wanted to protect an ongoing case, but to me that seems very unusual as well. I've never really seen tox results kept quiet in other cases, big or small, and if nothing else I would think they would at least announce that she had 'no drugs' or 'drugs' in her system, even if they did want to protect the details to help their investigation.

Regardless, the idea that the info would never be released seems very weird. I guess the release timeframe has only recently lapsed, so maybe it will happen in the next week or two. Who knows at this point. It's damned frustrating.

 

[Jessica222]

'Castle' Copies L.A.'s Unsolved Elisa Lam 'Corpse Water' Case

http://laist.com/attachments/laist_sharon/castle-watershed.jpg

The season finale of 'Castle' featured a water tank murder similar to the Elisa Lam case. (Photo by Richard Cartwright/ABC)


Too soon? In Monday night's season finale of Castle, the body of a young woman was discovered in the rooftop water tank of a seedy hotel, echoing the real-life and still unsolved case of Elisa Lam.

The ABC drama is set in New York, and their murder victim was an honors student pretending to be a prostitute (Lam was a vacationing student from Canada), but the other similarities are undeniable: In Castle, the crime took place at the "Cedric Hotel"—the real-life crime occurred at the Cecil Hotel in downtown Los Angeles, a similarly seedy establishment.

Lam's body was discovered in the water tank after several days when the guests complained of low water pressure. The TV version was far more dramatic: Instead of noticing that the water was a little bit "off," blood poured out of the showers, horrifying one unfortunate guest.

A key component in the Lam case was her strange behavior before her disappearance, as caught on a surveillance camera in an elevator. The Castle episode, entitled "Watershed," also featured video footage from an elevator, but without Lam's erratic movements.

On February 26, Los Angeles police denied that they had ruled out foul play in Lam's death. There have been no further updates on the case.

As in real life, we imagine that those TV guests immediately filed lawsuits against the hotel for their exposure to "corpse water."

http://laist.com/2013/05/14/castle_copies_unsolved_la_water_tan.php

 

[Conductor71]

'Castle' Copies L.A.'s Unsolved Elisa Lam 'Corpse Water' Case

http://laist.com/attachments/laist_sharon/castle-watershed.jpg

The season finale of 'Castle' featured a water tank murder similar to the Elisa Lam case. (Photo by Richard Cartwright/ABC)


Too soon? In Monday night's season finale of Castle, the body of a young woman was discovered in the rooftop water tank of a seedy hotel, echoing the real-life and still unsolved case of Elisa Lam.

Well, this sort of refutes the naysayers here saying there was no further reporting due to lack of interest in three different countries lol

What was the cause of death, I dare ask?

Yeesh, how insensitive but not at all surprising.

 

[LittleWing]

Well, this sort of refutes the naysayers here saying there was no further reporting due to lack of interest in three different countries lol

What was the cause of death, I dare ask?

Yeesh, how insensitive but not at all surprising.

So true about the lack of reporting..... indeed....

Insensitive and downright exploitative. Makes me SO mad.


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[Lola2013]

I believed that the case must be cooled down by LAPD. haha.

 

[summer_breeze]

http://english.sina.com/world/p/2013/0514/590677.html

2013-05-15 03:57:29 GMT2013-05-15 11:57:29(Beijing Time) SINA English

The autopsy and toxicology test reports of Canadian student Elisa Lam, whose suspicious death in a LA hotel caused a stir earlier this year, will be announced this week, Los Angeles police said on Monday.

 

[LittleWing]

http://english.sina.com/world/p/2013/0514/590677.html

2013-05-15 03:57:29 GMT2013-05-15 11:57:29(Beijing Time) SINA English

Thank goodness......




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[jetsetsam]

That link also includes this:

"Police also claimed that the investigation is still ongoing. Ed Winter, the coroner of Los Angeles police, said no suspicious clues were found to date. A final conclusion would be made upon completion of the report."

 

[Conductor71]

It sounds like you see an accidental death due to some kind of drug use as a perfectly likely explanation. Which means we don't disagree, other than the fact that I see her psych features as feasibly playing a bigger role. But I think it's more than likely that drugs were involved, regardless of whether any psych issues were or weren't.

I simply lean in the direction that foul play was probably not involved.

My perspective is based more on the lack of evidence of foul play and the unlikely practical aspects of carrying it out (unless maybe she was specifically killed on top or in the tank, which again seems very unlikely to me). Foul play strikes me as much more improbably than an accidental death, but we all have our own opinions... and in this case, there are so many unknown variables that it's perfectly possible for two logical people to have very different theories.

Just a few last things on mental health and then I am letting that rest. BTW, thank you for hearing me out. I tried to express this earlier and it was not treated so well for it.

If we only had video and the police info that she had mild depression...and no blog, what would our most likely theory be? Just as an example of how people can rush to judgment...I have a friend who has a genetic neurological disorder that can randomly affect his gait. When people see him trying to walk they think he is drunk or on drugs. This has little to do with EL but just an example of how taking just a small part of a much bigger picture and running with it can result in a huge mistake. The main reason I am leaning toward foul play is due the profound lack of any info shared with the public, they would have no reason to hide anything if this were strictly mental health, IMO.

I researched and discovered that the vast majority of states provide public access to autopsy reports (not sure on toxicology), and Cali is one of them. Family cannot block release of an autopsy other than through court order and they need a compelling reason for it. Whitney Houston's 12 page autopsy is freely available on the net, so I cannot see how EL's family is the reason for the delay.

As for foul play, the reasons l lean more on that side is due to:

*Police behavior and compliant media shut out.
*Early involvement of Interpol when usually just Consulate is the norm for missing persons.
*The physiological agility and strength needed coupled with pre-knowledge that EL would require to end up in the tank on her own makes it unlikely she did this on her own.
*EL would have needed to know how to disable the fire door alarm to enter the roof. I cannot see her using the fire escape.
*SAR dogs found no tracking sent of her on the roof (this is minor detail but still hints of foul play, IMO).

Oh, yay, and finally, someone agrees with me on the eyeglasses!

 

[LittleWing]

Interesting point on autopsy reports being made public, Conductor. Then it seems to me the only thing keeping these reports hidden for now is either the fact that the investigation is ongoing and LE want to keep it under wraps for now, or Interpol involvement has some influence in suppressing them, some combination of the two...

Is it normal for the initial autopsy reports to be suppressed? Are they waiting for the toxicology reports in order to draw a conclusion and then make the official conclusion public? I'm not sure what standard procedure is with these things. Is it not odd that we have not seen the initial report?

There's so much conflicting evidence..... LE's doing one thing but saying another. If we're to go by that latest article, they seem to already have concluded that she died of her own volition, either intentionally or not, and are just waiting to confirm exactly how it happened. Yet everything has been so secretive, which is so unusual considering the circumstances of Elisa's death that had media crawling all over it (and which was so compelling and mysterious that I know I and countless others joined this forum in particular because of this case). Remember the interview with LE which was cancelled and all involved were basically told to keep mum?? It seems to me that they may not be as certain as they're asserting?

It'd be like going to someone's house for dinner....and being served a Banquet, given a plate, putting a fork in your hand, and then saying, this food isn't for you. You can smell it, you're certain it's for you but they insist it's not. Lol ok I come up with weird examples but you get my drift....


EDIT:

What's this about the eyeglasses? You mean that she never brought them to LA to begin with? Why do you guys have this impression?? I seriously doubt she wouldn't have brought them at all? She would have needed them, near sighted or far sighted IMO.



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[LittleWing]

RE THE EYEGLASSES

I found Elisa's sister's twitter to investigate the "no glasses" tweet......guys......she's referring to a photo of Elisa without glasses on in it, not revealing some secret knowledge that she didn't have her glasses with her o_o


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