Poll for the Armchair Psychologists

What Psychological Disorder do you think Jodi may have?


  • Total voters
    460
Status
Not open for further replies.
Yes, indeed Linda.

There was a Principal recently that gave a graduation speech bent on taking away "unearned trophies"........his speech was entitled "You're Not That Special".

It was well received.

I haven't posted here since the disappearance of Celina Cass. That case really captured my interest and indignation. I've been drawn into this one, too, and have been reading WS this past week to catch myself up to what has gone on these past five months.

This person does think she is special and beautiful--inflates her very average talents. Not that great of a singer or artist. I do think that she is articulate and has a seductive "little girl" voice. I have to scratch my head when I hear JA described as "beautiful." She may fancy herself that way, but to me, she is a garden variety person (in appearance) who looks like millions of other average, everyday-looking women. I see beady eyes, imperfect, pasty skin, a shadow of a moustache on her upper lip, and I'm thinkin', "Wow, she must have a power over men that almost supernatural." I heard one of Travis's friends describe how JA, by design, flipped her hair and preened in front of a mirror at a conference. The men in the closest conference room could see her and were distracted by her. Later, she complained that these men were "staring" at her when that was her goal all along--to make Travis jealous!

I'm not trained in the field of mental health, but I think she is a sociopath. Lack of empathy, I think, is the key component. She sets up situations and then blames others for responding to her wiles. Does anyone think it a stretch that she may have said something to Travis while photographing him, such as, "Wait till I publish these!" Perhaps Travis playfully said, "Gimme that camera." Maybe he sort of grabbed at it, thus giving JA the "self defense" idea. She took that innocent gesture and turned it into a huge "attack" on her that justified her actions.
 
Well at 49 if she is average I hope I don't run into you on the street. Can't imagine what you'd think of me. LOL
 
I get your drift Linda! The difference between being intelligent v.s narcist intelligence. Keep in mind I am humble, simple and moderately educated person. The traits that define for me the narcistic character. Include the need to belittle or disparage others in attempt to validate their own self worth. Grandiose thoughts and behavior as well. The most tell tell sign to me is most simplistic in nature. Lack of EMPATHY. If those of highest intelligence do not recognize the suffering of it's weakest members. Their exceeding abilities not used to protect, educate,
love, and care for the weakest of it's members is to me the trait that stands out most to me. Because even in the simplest of the race, the ability to feel the compassion for others suffering. Is this not the defining factor that is the Devine nature of all man kind. It is here that one choses the path that is afforded intelligence and crystalizes the difference between intelligence and the traits of narcism.

She's acutely empathic to everyone but her soon to be ex husband!

I had to laugh... After reading both psy evals. Everything she said about him was backed up by the testing in his psy eval. Roflmao! I'm thinking the psychiatrist was a tad jealous of her IQ score because he kept mentioning it at her follow up! He did say " some narcissistic features"




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I have a question and this seems like as good as any a place to ask it. If Jodi lacks empathy, is so comfortable lying, and such a good reader of people as her acquaintances / Travis's friends have said, what stops her from faking remorse? She can fake-cry and fake-orgasm, but expressing remorse seems to be a bridge too far. Surely she understands intellectually that most normal people would apologize at some point for accidentally killing someone, no? Especially if their life is on the line in a DP trial?
 
I have a question and this seems like as good as any a place to ask it. If Jodi lacks empathy, is so comfortable lying, and such a good reader of people as her acquaintances / Travis's friends have said, what stops her from faking remorse? She can fake-cry and fake-orgasm, but expressing remorse seems to be a bridge too far. Surely she understands intellectually that most normal people would apologize at some point for accidentally killing someone, no? Especially if their life is on the line in a DP trial?

IMO it's her narcissism/paychopathy and her inability to take responsibility. In her head and according to her "story" she was justified in killing him, she was the true victim.
The truth is, she didn't could wouldn't be exposed for what she is and Travis had her number and promised to rip the mask off for everyone to see. When he rejected her and threatened exposure, it was a huge huge blow to her. ( narcissistic injury)

All IMO

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Sorry in advance for the long post.

If Jodi lacks empathy, is so comfortable lying, and such a good reader of people as her acquaintances / Travis's friends have said, what stops her from faking remorse?

IMO This is where the narcissism comes into play as well as viewing the more complex side of AsPD. JA is of the mind she is the victim, therefore she does not/should not show remorse because her actions were justified. Also, remorse is a difficult emotion to mimic. More superficial emotions like sadness are easier to achieve. In my personal experience, rage/resentment is about the only emotion that tends to be genuine and that is usually hidden or disguised fairly well.

I've read or heard people say that JA is small so she wouldn't have been able to overcome Travis - not so. My son was not large for his age when he was a kid (even now) but when an episode of rage would hit he could lift and throw furniture. He would try to destroy everything and everyone in his path. When he was only 10yrs old it took 3 police officers to subdue time and they had to zip tie his arms and shackle his legs to remove him from my home. So, drawing from that, I know JA was perfectly capable of taking TA's life. I feel she definitely planned on committing the crime, but I also feel as if there was something that flipped that "rage switch" to release the adrenaline needed to carry out the attack in such a brutal manner. As an aside (humor me if you will), it seems beating/stabbing/suffocation/strangulation are a preferred method to commit injury or death with psychopaths. My son always beat, threatened, tried to stab others and nearly suffocated our family dog. In JA's case, I believe it's been said she had packed knives for a camping trip but had a gun as well?? In my opinion, the gun was probably meant as a secondary line of assurance.

While I realize every person is different, the unmistakeable traits/behaviors of people with Cluster B PD make it difficult to not compare the commonalities of others with the disorder. Plus, since we're dealing with hypothetical d/x here I can only draw on personal experience and what I've learned through school.

Two things stood out to me in my very limited viewing of interviews and testimony.
1. When JA was being interviewed by the detective (sorry forgot his name) she asked, "...is it because I'm not crying?". In this instance, I feel the detective was making it impossible for her to read since LE have to try and stay as emotionally detached as possible while interviewing. All JA had to go on was viewing what others might do in that situation.

2. While the detective was on the stand and the defense asked about his interviewing/interrogation of JA; his response to one of the questions was, "I tried to play on her emotions.". When asked did it work he responded no that she didn't show any or something to that effect.

Some other posters, earlier on this thread, talked about IQ and narcissism. My son was tested/interviewed by a top neuropsychologist at the University of KS over a period of a week. The tests (when he would cooperate) indicated he did not have a high IQ, however he portrayed himself as being very knowledgeable. Most individuals with AsPD tend to be superficial. Their knowledge, their grandiose sense of self, self esteem, their "emotions", etc. lack depth. My son is what I would call a "jack of all trades, master of none" and he doesn't have to be master of anything other than manipulation. He's able to manipulate others into providing all his needs. As you've seen in JA's case, I recall she couldn't stick with a job, depended on TA, had back ups like Ryan, and had no long lasting relationships or living arrangements. This is all very typical of someone with a PD.

Can anyone tell me if JA has had any psych testing done and if the raw data or results are available? MMPI, NEO-PI, MBTI, etc.? Someone (sorry still waking up and forgot who) mentioned watching the interviews with JA's parents. I didn't realize those were available, but I will hunt them down and watch. I really wish we knew about the first 12 years of her life, especially the infant/toddler stages. From a psychological standpoint JA is an interesting case study. From a lay person's standpoint she's a cold blooded succubus that should never see the light of day. :twocents:

Thanks for listening/reading my opinions, theories, and rants. I tend to get a bit too passionate and carried away when discussing the realm of psychology. :blushing:
 
Thank you Linda7NJ and SaucyGal. Your responses make a lot of sense.

In her post-verdict interview, she stated that she hoped the Alexanders would be able to find peace now. She quickly followed that by saying she doesn't think they will ever find the peace they would like. I thought that seemed like a dig...also when she said she expected to live a "long natural life," you couldn't help but contrast that with Travis's life which was cut short by her. I don't think these comments were accidental. And, of course, she couldn't help herself from calling him an abuser and pedophile again. All very calculated and in my mind, sadistic in the same way that the killing was. It seems like just shooting him would not have been satisfactory enough. When Travis finally had her number and called her a sociopath, it seems like that was when the rage kicked in full-force and it has never subsided, so she keeps trying to kill him all over again. Now, his family, Juan Martinez and Nancy Grace all have her number too, so she feels compelled to lash out at them as well.
 
Sorry in advance for the long post.

IMO This is where the narcissism comes into play as well as viewing the more complex side of AsPD. JA is of the mind she is the victim, therefore she does not/should not show remorse because her actions were justified. Also, remorse is a difficult emotion to mimic. More superficial emotions like sadness are easier to achieve. In my personal experience, rage/resentment is about the only emotion that tends to be genuine and that is usually hidden or disguised fairly well.

I've read or heard people say that JA is small so she wouldn't have been able to overcome Travis - not so. My son was not large for his age when he was a kid (even now) but when an episode of rage would hit he could lift and throw furniture. He would try to destroy everything and everyone in his path. When he was only 10yrs old it took 3 police officers to subdue time and they had to zip tie his arms and shackle his legs to remove him from my home. So, drawing from that, I know JA was perfectly capable of taking TA's life. I feel she definitely planned on committing the crime, but I also feel as if there was something that flipped that "rage switch" to release the adrenaline needed to carry out the attack in such a brutal manner. As an aside (humor me if you will), it seems beating/stabbing/suffocation/strangulation are a preferred method to commit injury or death with psychopaths. My son always beat, threatened, tried to stab others and nearly suffocated our family dog. In JA's case, I believe it's been said she had packed knives for a camping trip but had a gun as well?? In my opinion, the gun was probably meant as a secondary line of assurance.

While I realize every person is different, the unmistakeable traits/behaviors of people with Cluster B PD make it difficult to not compare the commonalities of others with the disorder. Plus, since we're dealing with hypothetical d/x here I can only draw on personal experience and what I've learned through school.

Two things stood out to me in my very limited viewing of interviews and testimony.
1. When JA was being interviewed by the detective (sorry forgot his name) she asked, "...is it because I'm not crying?". In this instance, I feel the detective was making it impossible for her to read since LE have to try and stay as emotionally detached as possible while interviewing. All JA had to go on was viewing what others might do in that situation.

2. While the detective was on the stand and the defense asked about his interviewing/interrogation of JA; his response to one of the questions was, "I tried to play on her emotions.". When asked did it work he responded no that she didn't show any or something to that effect.

Some other posters, earlier on this thread, talked about IQ and narcissism. My son was tested/interviewed by a top neuropsychologist at the University of KS over a period of a week. The tests (when he would cooperate) indicated he did not have a high IQ, however he portrayed himself as being very knowledgeable. Most individuals with AsPD tend to be superficial. Their knowledge, their grandiose sense of self, self esteem, their "emotions", etc. lack depth. My son is what I would call a "jack of all trades, master of none" and he doesn't have to be master of anything other than manipulation. He's able to manipulate others into providing all his needs. As you've seen in JA's case, I recall she couldn't stick with a job, depended on TA, had back ups like Ryan, and had no long lasting relationships or living arrangements. This is all very typical of someone with a PD.

Can anyone tell me if JA has had any psych testing done and if the raw data or results are available? MMPI, NEO-PI, MBTI, etc.? Someone (sorry still waking up and forgot who) mentioned watching the interviews with JA's parents. I didn't realize those were available, but I will hunt them down and watch. I really wish we knew about the first 12 years of her life, especially the infant/toddler stages. From a psychological standpoint JA is an interesting case study. From a lay person's standpoint she's a cold blooded succubus that should never see the light of day. :twocents:

Thanks for listening/reading my opinions, theories, and rants. I tend to get a bit too passionate and carried away when discussing the realm of psychology. :blushing:

I think Dr DeMarte gave Jodi the MMPI and if you can find her testimony on youtube she discusses results on the stand.

here is a blog that has some interesting info:
http://kristinarandle.com/blog/

there is so much we do not know about Jodi's early life and family life. There was an armchair thread that got started
back in Feb:
Armchair Psych discussion of Jodi Arias - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

lots of intelligent posts on there. over a week ago there was a lot of bickering and a mod shut down that thread and
wiped out a bunch of posts. It went back up briefly then shut down again -"closed for review" was the reason given.
I have pm'ed 2 different mods asking for it to be re-opened. To no avail.
 
Well at 49 if she is average I hope I don't run into you on the street. Can't imagine what you'd think of me. LOL

Cate--I know what you mean. Jodi may be a lot of things, but in looks, she's no "average." Even 5 years of jail, weight loss, not the the nicest frames on her glasses, and lack of make-up and hair colour hasn't hurt her looks much. If I were under that much stress--and didn't have access to a blow-dryer on top of it all--I'd look a little more like a dog's breakfast with each passing day!

Perhaps certain personality disorders are good for the complexion? ;)
 
Well at 49 if she is average I hope I don't run into you on the street. Can't imagine what you'd think of me. LOL

Cate, maybe I'm looking at the ugly in her that goes all the way to the bone. I live in a city with several universities, and coeds are everywhere. I guess that to me, she looks worse than many of them. There's no light in her beady little eyes and no lovely distinguishing feature. Maybe I'm harshly judging looks based on inner character. Yes, when dolled up with makeup, blonde hair, and tight-fitting clothes, she probably does appeal to men. She also had "enhancement surgery," so that plays into the equation with the guys. However, I was thinking that she could be quite attractive if she had any sort of integrated, normal "core." She's a wasted life. I think that she is intelligent and articulate--undoubtedly a quick learner who could've gone far in life. Uh oh, I don't want to be listing any mitigating factors!
 
I have a question.

Lets say someone has an IQ of 122 and that would make them more intelligent than 93% of the population. Lets say they were well aware of that. Would that make them a narcissist?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

130 IQ would make her somewhat of a genius, but she scored a 119 on the WAIS IQ test. She said she believed she was as smart as Einstein, but he had an IQ of at least 160. The fact she would equate her own IQ to one of the greatest scientific minds in human kind shows her narcissism.
 
130 IQ would make her somewhat of a genius, but she scored a 119 on the WAIS IQ test. She said she believed she was as smart as Einstein, but he had an IQ of at least 160. The fact she would equate her own IQ to one of the greatest scientific minds in human kind shows her narcissism.

Sorry for any confusion, I wasn't posting about Jodi.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
IMO it's her narcissism/paychopathy and her inability to take responsibility. In her head and according to her "story" she was justified in killing him, she was the true victim.
The truth is, she didn't could wouldn't be exposed for what she is and Travis had her number and promised to rip the mask off for everyone to see. When he rejected her and threatened exposure, it was a huge huge blow to her. ( narcissistic injury)

All IMO

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think she is histrionic personality disorder, which many claim is the feminized version of narcissistic PD.

http://outofthefog.net/Disorders/HPD.html

"HPD shares a number of similarities to NPD, which is more commonly diagnosed in men. This has led to some theories that Histrionic Personality Disorder is a feminine manifestation of Narcissistic Personality Disorder."

The symptoms listed for HPD mirror Jodi perfectly: notice! They liken HPD to he character in Fatal Attraction and I believe one of Travis's friends described Jodi as being like the film "Fatal Attraction.". I cannot believe I didn't realize this before!

"P - provocative (or seductive) behavior
R - relationships, considered more intimate than they are
A - attention, must be at center of
I - influenced easily
S - speech (style) - wants to impress, lacks detail
E - emotional liability, shallowness

M - make-up - physical appearance used to draw attention to self
E - exaggerated emotions - theatrical

However, people who suffer from HPD are often just as interested in attracting negative attention, including shock, anger, outrage, shame, guilt and remorse.

HPD Characteristics & Traits

The following list is a collection of some of the more commonly observed behaviors and traits of those who suffer from HPD. Click on the links on each one for more information about a particular trait or behavior and some ideas for coping with each.

Note that these traits are given as a guideline only and are not intended for diagnosis. People who suffer from HPD are all unique and so each person will display a different subset of traits. Also, note that everyone displays "borderline" behaviors from time to time. Therefore, if a person exhibits one or some of these traits, that does not necessarily qualify them for a diagnosis of HPD. See the DSM Criteria on this page for diagnostic criteria.

Acting Out - Acting Out behavior refers to a subset of personality disorder traits that are more outwardly-destructive than self-destructive.

"Always" and "Never" Statements - "Always" and "Never" Statements are declarations containing the words "always" or "never". They are commonly used but rarely true.

Anger - People who suffer from personality disorders often feel a sense of unresolved anger and a heightened or exaggerated perception that they have been wronged, invalidated, neglected or abused.

Baiting - A provocative act used to solicit an angry, aggressive or emotional response from another individual.

Belittling, Condescending and Patronizing - This kind of speech is a passive-aggressive approach to giving someone a verbal put-down while maintaining a facade of reasonableness or friendliness.

Blaming - The practice of identifying a person or people responsible for creating a problem, rather than identifying ways of dealing with the problem.

Bullying - Any systematic action of hurting a person from a position of relative physical, social, economic or emotional strength.

Bunny Boiling - Bunny Boiling is a reference to an iconic scene in the movie "Fatal Attraction" in which the main character Alex, who suffers from Borderline Personality Disorder, kills the family's pet rabbit and boils it on the stove. Bunny Boiling has become a popular reference to how people sometimes exhibit their rage by behaving destructively towards symbolic, important or treasured possessions or representations of those whom they wish to hurt, control or intimidate.

Catastrophizing - The habit of automatically assuming a "worst case scenario" and inappropriately characterizing minor or moderate problems or issues as catastrophic events.

Chaos Manufacture - Unnecessarily creating or maintaining an environment of risk, destruction, confusion or mess.

Cheating - Sharing a romantic or intimate relationship with somebody when you are already committed to a monogamous relationship with someone else.

Circular Conversations - Arguments which go on almost endlessly, repeating the same patterns with no resolution.

Compulsive Lying - Compulsive Lying is a term used to describe lying frequently out of habit, without much regard for the consequences to others and without having an obvious motive to lie. A compulsive liar is someone who habitually lies.

Denial - Believing or imagining that some painful or traumatic circumstance, event or memory does not exist or did not happen.

Depression - When you feel sadder than you think you should, for longer than you think you should - but still can't seem to break out of it - that's depression. People who suffer from personality disorders are often also diagnosed with depression resulting from mistreatment at the hands of others, low self-worth and the results of their own poor choices.

Domestic Theft - Consuming or taking control of a resource or asset belonging to (or shared with) a family member, partner or spouse without first obtaining their approval.

Emotional Blackmail - A system of threats and punishments used in an attempt to control someone’s behaviors.

Engulfment - An unhealthy and overwhelming level of attention and dependency on another person, which comes from imagining or believing one exists only within the context of that relationship.

Sense of Entitlement - An unrealistic, unmerited or inappropriate expectation of favorable living conditions and favorable treatment at the hands of others.

Escape To Fantasy - Taking an imaginary excursion to a happier, more hopeful place.

False Accusations - Patterns of unwarranted or exaggerated criticism directed towards someone else.

Favoritism - Favoritism is the practice of systematically giving positive, preferential treatment to one child, subordinate or associate among a family or group of peers.

Frivolous Litigation - The use of unmerited legal proceedings to hurt, harass or gain an economic advantage over an individual or organization.

Hoovers & Hoovering - A Hoover is a metaphor, taken from the popular brand of vacuum cleaners, to describe how an abuse victim, trying to assert their own rights by leaving or limiting contact in a dysfunctional relationship gets "sucked back in" when the perpetrator temporarily exhibits improved or desirable behavior.

Hysteria - An excessive reaction to a threat, bad news or disappointment, which diverts attention away from the problem and towards the person who is having the reaction.

Impulsiveness - The tendency to act or speak based on current feelings rather than logical reasoning.

Infantilization - Treating a child as if they are much younger than their actual age.

Munchausen's and Munchausen by Proxy Syndrome (MBPS) - Munchausen's Syndrome is a disorder in which an individual repeatedly fakes or exaggerates their own illness or medical symptoms in order to manipulate the attentions of medical professionals or caregivers. Munchausen by Proxy Syndrome (MBPS) is a similar syndrome in which another individual, commonly a child, is substituted for the patient and made the focus of inappropriate medical attention.

Mood Swings - Unpredictable, rapid, dramatic emotional cycles which cannot be readily explained by changes in external circumstances.

Name-Calling - A form of Verbal Abuse which people sometimes indulge in when their emotional thought processes override their rational thought processes.

Panic Attacks - Short intense episodes of fear or anxiety, often accompanied by physical symptoms, such as hyperventilating, shaking, sweating and chills.

Projection - The act of attributing one's own feelings or traits to another person and imagining or believing that the other person has those same feelings or traits.

Push-Pull - A chronic pattern of sabotaging and re-establishing closeness in a relationship without appropriate cause or reason.

Raging, Violence and Impulsive Aggression - Explosive verbal, physical or emotional elevations of a dispute that are disproportionate to the situation at hand.

Sabotage - The spontaneous disruption of calm or status quo in order to serve a personal interest, provoke a conflict or*draw attention.

Self-Aggrandizement - A pattern of pompous behavior, boasting, narcissism or competitiveness designed to create an appearance of superiority.

Self-Harm - Self Harm, also known as self-mutilation, self-injury or self-abuse is any form of deliberate, premeditated injury inflicted on oneself, common among adolescents and among people who suffer from Borderline Personality Disorder. The most common forms are cutting and poisoning/overdosing.

Self-Victimization - Self-Victimization or "playing the victim" is the act of casting oneself as a victim in order to control others by soliciting a sympathetic response from them or diverting their attention away from abusive behavior.

Targeted Humor, Mocking and Sarcasm - Targeted Humor is any sustained pattern of joking, sarcasm or mockery which is designed to reduce another individual's reputation in their own eyes or in the eyes of others.

Testing - Repeatedly forcing another individual to demonstrate or prove their love or commitment to a relationship.

Threats - Inappropriate, intentional warnings of destructive actions or consequences.

Histrionic Personality Disorder (HPD) - The DSM Criteria"



"
 
saucygal: first happy mother's day. Your reference to your son's rage at a young age and the extreme physical strength. My brother was/is as you described your son. My own perspective is when people argue or even physically fight there is generally a down grade. Fatigue or regret slows most normal people but not so with anti-social behavior it escalates until the person is subdued. My brother would break the bones in his hands and fingers and continued unphased.
It is hard for me to express the emotions around my sibling. I love him as a brother and there were good memories too. However, as a person I dispise him and would never have him as a friend ...ever.
 
I think that mitigation will disclose more of the pysc. reports on Jodi. We may also be privy to more history during this process.
 
Interesting you mention dissociative identity disorder. I remember reading Dr. Keith Ablow's book on Casey Anthony and thinks she has that disorder.

I think Jodi Arias is emotionally immature.

if a person has a bad trauma i can childhood that isn't treated, can their maturity be stunted?
 
Sociopath or psychopath. Whatever description one prefers...That's what she is...One can diagnose and add all manner of disasociative "disorders"...She's a psycho through and through.

moo
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
224
Guests online
4,123
Total visitors
4,347

Forum statistics

Threads
592,147
Messages
17,964,175
Members
228,702
Latest member
cevans
Back
Top