The Water Tanks

[jetsetsam]

Thank you for the photos.

They have further clarified in my mind that an irrational person would be very unlikely to access the top of the tank by climbing up the ladder.

Look at the jumble of pipes that they would have to navigate.

In the dark! Or at least, in the semi-dark with the rooftop lighting.

In fact, it would have had to be a very very determined killer to put the body in the tank.

Imagine carrying a 100 lb body up to the roof, then climbing up and balancing on the pipes to get to the wooden ladder, which as you say is not attached and somewhat loose.

I don't think one person, alone, would even attempt to move the body up to the top of the tank.

 

[Nickfalzone]

Thank you for the photos.

They have further clarified in my mind that an irrational person would be very unlikely to access the top of the tank by climbing up the ladder.

Look at the jumble of pipes that they would have to navigate.

In the dark! Or at least, in the semi-dark with the rooftop lighting.

In fact, it would have had to be a very very determined killer to put the body in the tank.

Imagine carrying a 100 lb body up to the roof, then climbing up and balancing on the pipes to get to the wooden ladder, which as you say is not attached and somewhat loose.

I don't think one person, alone, would even attempt to move the body up to the top of the tank.

View attachment 34139

I think it's oddly hilarious that the hotel has made no attempt at securing the rooftop since the body was found. Roof door alarms still not functioning, no one apparently around to give a **** if anyone is on the roof, no added security cameras in the halls/rooftop.

One thing that stood out to me in these pictures is the storage closet to the left of the 14F elevators. When Elisa was led off with her hands on her head at the end of the video, she was kind of stumbling towards that doorway. Granted, she could also have been going to the stairs or the rooms down that hall, but she specifically moves out to the far side of the hallway where the storage closet is.

Also, and this may not be anything, but I notice a bunch of reddish stains near the water tanks, on the large round knobs, and on the ground below the ladder. Could simply be water/rust stains, but I do not notice them as much around the other tanks. As the photographer mentioned, it seems pretty strange that the ladder itself wouldn't have been taken as evidence (of course, I suppose it is possible that it was, and this is a 'new' one..).

 

[chellebelle71]

I will try to respond to the various questions/comments that relate in some way to my photos at https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10101562000061184.1073741826.3316699&type=1&l=8bf4199584-

The stains on the ground appeared to be rust. There was some water leaking out of the pipes when I was there.

The double doors were locked as was the door at the top of the red stairs (next to red ladder/tank access from above). The light was on in this room but there was no indication anyone was actually in there.There were padlocks on the water tank hatches, but I was not brave enough to actually climb onto the tanks to verify they couldn't be opened. As Nickfalzone mentioned, the fire alarm door was not properly functioning. It didn't even fully latch closed. If you check out the photos, you will find some of the fire escape on the 14th floor that was wide open. The one on the other side of the 14th floor was closed.

Could Elisa have climbed into the tank by herself? Absolutely. So long as it was unlocked. On the night of the elevator footage, the moon would have been fairly bright. That combined with the lights of DTLA would have given her just enough light to navigate through the pipes and what not. I know this because I did it myself. It is a bit scary because the wooden ladder is free standing and slides a bit. I would imagine you would have to be really motivated to actually follow through with it. She also could have climbed up the tall red ladder and access the tanks from above. There was no way in hell I was about to try that out for myself though! One individual could have hauled her up the red ladder if they had her on their back, but that would have required a rope of some sort, maybe even a couple belts.

 

[jetsetsam]

The wood of the ladder is old and weathered, and the ladder looks about the same height as the ladder that the firemen are standing on in the first photos of the roof tanks.

Everything has a new coat of paint, probably after they repaired the hole cut in the tank.

The grafiti has been painted over, and the tank beside the tank with the body used to have a lighter coloured ring at the top where they increased it's capacity in the past.

The photo with the empty pizza box beside the fire escape ladder emphasizes how easily and frequently people access the roof.

 

[chellebelle71]

Circumstantially - I don't think it's a coincidence that a dead body was found in an ideal "hiding" spot in the hotel. If the perp was stuck with the body, could not easily/safely transport it out of the hotel

I actually disagree with you on this. A perp could have used the hotels history of suicides to coverup foul play. Initially, all attention would have been on the ground floor with the body. They could have carried her up, tossed her over and gotten back to their room before LE or management would ever notice they had been gone. The impact could also help cover up a fatal wound, depending on the type of course. Just my opinion!

 

[chellebelle71]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10101562170614394&l=36ee40c9e6

Locked hatch for the tank that had the ladder propped against it.

 

[chellebelle71]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10101598539625604&l=bb25c61447

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10101598543173494&l=70f56fc990

I just added these photos to the album. They offer more detailed views of the wooden ladder and just how sketchy it is! My friend was at the bottom and had her full weight on it and it was still sliding to the side as I climbed up.

 

[Nickfalzone]

I actually disagree with you on this. A perp could have used the hotels history of suicides to coverup foul play. Initially, all attention would have been on the ground floor with the body. They could have carried her up, tossed her over and gotten back to their room before LE or management would ever notice they had been gone. The impact could also help cover up a fatal wound, depending on the type of course. Just my opinion!

I am not an expert on forensics, but wouldn't investigators be able to tell if she was dead prior to the fall? Additionally, there's the creep factor here, which brings to mind Dark Water... if this was the act of a SK or twisted satanist (Feb 1st and all), then the events perhaps make more sense. IE - the water tank was convenient, but also a "symbol" or "statement" that the perp wanted to make.

 

[Nickfalzone]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10101598539625604&l=bb25c61447

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10101598543173494&l=70f56fc990

I just added these photos to the album. They offer more detailed views of the wooden ladder and just how sketchy it is! My friend was at the bottom and had her full weight on it and it was still sliding to the side as I climbed up.

You somewhat answered this before, but have backtracked now. Do you believe that Elisa, a thin 5'4" female, could have managed to get herself into that tank without a significant amount of effort? Theoretically she probably could have, but doesn't the difficulty of doing so somewhat negate the theory that what she did was accidental? We earlier discussed the woman that was found in a ventilation shaft above a restaurant as a comparison. Her death was blamed on confusion d/t bath salts (later this was somewhat recounted). But she did have an objective, which was to break into the restaurant since they forbid her from coming in through the main entrance. With Elisa, there is just no reasonable explanation for her to wander up to the roof and go through all that effort to ostensibly drown herself. Severe paranoia? Perhaps. Her use of ADD drugs lends some credence to that theory, but the probability just seems so much more that homicide is the cause.

My theory is the following:

She had some flooding or water issues late at night on the 31st. This caused her to go up to the 14th floor to use the facilities (wearing sandals like you would in a communal shower). She did not have her contacts in or her glasses on bec, while being nearsighted, she could still see enough to comfortably make it to a bathroom on another floor. She may have even used the facilities on 14 on a previous night, due to the suggestion by a staffer. In her mind, this would be a very quick trip.

She finished up her business in the bathroom, went over to the elevator relatively calmly, but wanted to cover her tracks by hitting multiple floors. (see digital LEDs above elevators). Something happened when she arrived on 14 - either she heard something she shouldn't have, or did something she shouldn't have. The guilty party - either a guest/resident, or security, then got on her case once she got in the elevator. This individual said something that scared her, causing her to hide in the front area of the elevator. It is likely that this person first scared her, but then somewhat earned her trust d/t their position of authority. A phrase that could have scared her would be along the lines "Why was that girl using the bathroom on our floor?". Then they came over to the side of the elevator and manipulated her into guilt by making threats - but done in such a way that she felt more guilty than scared. She went through explanations about why she was on that floor (making squeezing gestures like she was soaking up water with a towel from her room), trying to defend herself, but ultimately conceding to the so-called authority that what she did was wrong, and that she should follow them elsewhere to in some way remedy the situation. From there she was possibly taken into the nearby closet and suffocated (or disabled in some way) then put in a ready bag and brought to the roof - OR she was led to the roof and the murder took place in the shed. Regardless, her guilt was used to manipulate her into doing something/going somewhere that she should not have gone, and it all went downhill from there.

 

[chellebelle71]

Imagine carrying a 100 lb body up to the roof, then climbing up and balancing on the pipes to get to the wooden ladder, which as you say is not attached and somewhat loose.
View attachment 34139

I am only 5'1" so getting onto the ladder was a bit tricky. I had to have one foot on a pipe and sort of jump up onto the ladder by pushing against the front tank. All the while the damn ladder was slippin' and slidin' around and setting the stage for yet another Cecil Hotel tragedy!

 

[chellebelle71]

I am not an expert on forensics, but wouldn't investigators be able to tell if she was dead prior to the fall? Additionally, there's the creep factor here, which brings to mind Dark Water... if this was the act of a SK or twisted satanist (Feb 1st and all), then the events perhaps make more sense. IE - the water tank was convenient, but also a "symbol" or "statement" that the perp wanted to make.

An autopsy can give strong evidence to support a drowning death but its not as clear cut as they make it seem on tv. She was in the water for a while so it had time to seep into her body and complicate things. The rate of decomp would have been slowed down, making it easier to visualize any fatal wounds if there had been any.

No obvious COD, abnormal behavior (seen in video), and a deferred autopsy pending toxicology makes me suspect an overdose.

I know I ramble on, sorry! I get a lil worked up with this stuff

 

[Conductor71]

Thank you for the photos.

They have further clarified in my mind that an irrational person would be very unlikely to access the top of the tank by climbing up the ladder.

Look at the jumble of pipes that they would have to navigate.

In the dark! Or at least, in the semi-dark with the rooftop lighting.

In fact, it would have had to be a very very determined killer to put the body in the tank.

Imagine carrying a 100 lb body up to the roof, then climbing up and balancing on the pipes to get to the wooden ladder, which as you say is not attached and somewhat loose.

I don't think one person, alone, would even attempt to move the body up to the top of the tank.

These photos confirm the same for me. Even if she did circumnavigate those pipes, I cannot see how she would have not ended up with any bruises or marks. Reports seem to show there were no marks or signs of trauma found.

The perp only had to take her through the unlocked fire door, so I could easily see getting her body into a tank once on the roof if the body was lowered from the roof of that storage structure.

The fact the body was well hidden and that the whole thing also looked as though it might be accidental gave any potential perp plenty of time to evade LE. Further, I imagine the crime scene was compromised given the easy access to the roof.

I am appalled that the property management company has not redressed the fire door alarm and that the city does not care they are in violation.

 

[chellebelle71]

Do you believe that Elisa, a thin 5'4" female, could have managed to get herself into that tank without a significant amount of effort? ....

Sorry I know I trail off... Yes, I do believe she could have gotten in the tank on her own, so long as it happened to be unlocked.

With Elisa, there is just no reasonable explanation for her to wander up to the roof and go through all that effort to ostensibly drown herself.

Her perception could have been severely distorted. I am suspicious about the person she is talking with in the video. If it was a hallucination, she could have been desperately trying to run away from it, going as far as seeking shelter in the water tank. I know that sounds crazy, but we gotta consider all options!

 

[chellebelle71]

Even if she did circumnavigate those pipes, I cannot see how she would have not ended up with any bruises or marks. Reports seem to show there were no marks or signs of trauma found.

They aren't THAT bad. Plus she could have avoided them altogether by climbing up the red ladder instead.

 

[chellebelle71]

She had some flooding or water issues late at night on the 31st. This caused her to go up to the 14th floor to use the facilities (wearing sandals like you would in a communal shower).

Whatever the reason, she really shouldn't have been up there. The 14th floor appeared to be one of the residential floors, not a hotel guest floor. There are residents who are very upset with the new owners attempts to market the hotel as being touristy and trendy. She very well could have bumped into someone who was not keen on yet another young tourist wandering around their space.

Also, she was talking to someone (or so she thought) towards her right, but she walked away towards the left. Not sure what to make of that...

 

[noodled1]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10101598539625604&l=bb25c61447

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10101598543173494&l=70f56fc990

I just added these photos to the album. They offer more detailed views of the wooden ladder and just how sketchy it is! My friend was at the bottom and had her full weight on it and it was still sliding to the side as I climbed up.

Wow look at those. looks good, everything's been painted fresh and new and there's even locks on the hatches now.

thanks

 

[Nickfalzone]

Whatever the reason, she really shouldn't have been up there. The 14th floor appeared to be one of the residential floors, not a hotel guest floor. There are residents who are very upset with the new owners attempts to market the hotel as being touristy and trendy. She very well could have bumped into someone who was not keen on yet another young tourist wandering around their space.

Also, she was talking to someone (or so she thought) towards her right, but she walked away towards the left. Not sure what to make of that...

Earlier discussions here suggested that the residents were not only upset about the attempts to update the hotel/clientele, but that they might losing their housing. Additionally, there were regular complaints about the Cecil's plumbing. You're right that it could have been a spur of the moment killing, related to suppressed anger related to tourists wandering on 14. This is way out-there, but I remember seeing a strange comment on a youtube EL video where the commenter said essentially "well, whatever she did, i'm sure she deserved it". This was amongst thousands of other comments and I don't recall if there was any followup to that comment. Just seemed strange at the time.

 

[Nickfalzone]

Whatever the reason, she really shouldn't have been up there. The 14th floor appeared to be one of the residential floors, not a hotel guest floor. There are residents who are very upset with the new owners attempts to market the hotel as being touristy and trendy. She very well could have bumped into someone who was not keen on yet another young tourist wandering around their space.

Also, she was talking to someone (or so she thought) towards her right, but she walked away towards the left. Not sure what to make of that...

There is the theory that she was talking to 2 people. One that came up on her left, and the other down the hall (possibly by the bathroom/shower). IE - could be security on the left, and annoyed resident on the right.

 

[Figuring]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10101598539625604&l=bb25c61447

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10101598543173494&l=70f56fc990

Wow-thanks for these FB pics. Although like many I've been fairly on the fence about whether this was murder/misadventure, your pics kind of discount the murder option for me.

Wooden Ladder
- I think it would be very difficult for a murderer to hoist a body body up that unattached wooden ladder.
- At the very least, there would be noticable scrapes and bruising on a body
- I'm not even certain that weather-worn and dried out ladder would hold the weight of both a man and woman at once--possible 250+ pounds
- This is assuming it's not a replaced ladder, but it sure looks too old to be new

Fire Escapes
- the fire escape opening 'hatch' to the roof looks so small -- too small to carry a body in a bag on your back. Could you confirm its width -- looks about 12-15 inches?
- the metal of the fire escape is SO thin, I think with the added weight of a body it would be very painful on the hands and challenging to carry a body up this way
- also, I think it would be an enormous amount of trust for a killer to place in the management that the fire escapes were well maintained and not rusted out/missing bolts etc. I would NOT want to have to exit down that fire escape if there was an emergency.

Of course a murderer could have taken her through the unlocked door, but it still does not explain the precarious ladder to the tanks. Just my opinions, of course.

Lastly -- I couldn't help but wonder whether you are certain you want these photos attached to your actual FB account? Just worried a little about your privacy!

Anyway, thanks again.

 

[AlphaWolf]

I'm not sure if this will work (I've had trouble posting links in the past), but here is a link for a Facebook album for some photos I took at The Cecil about a month ago. I tried to get some good shots of the wooden ladder and tank access in general. Some are artsy fartsy but you can just ignore those https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10101562000061184.1073741826.3316699&type=1&l=8bf4199584

Thanks so much....amazing job and maybe it will help answer questions to what happened!

the fire alarm door was not properly functioning. It didn't even fully latch closed. If you check out the photos, you will find some of the fire escape on the 14th floor that was wide open. The one on the other side of the 14th floor was closed.

did you try the roof access Door at the top of the staircase ( 15th floor)?...

opening from inside the hotel......