SIDEBAR #6- Arias/Alexander forum

[Arabian Girl]

Having read that blog - whilst I have a great deal of sympathy for what he has written as heartfelt as it is, the problem is that Mr Foreman Junior has absolutely no comment to make on some of the things his father has said in the various interviews he has given.

Things that were best left unsaid (even if he thought them privately) - particularly in regard to Travis and his 'certainty' that Jodi was 'mentally and emotionally abused', not to mention his criticism of the prosecutor treating them 'like idiots' and so on, and going as far as criticising the judicial system as being 'flawed' ... a system that he agreed to participate in and then complains about afterward.

If he had just waited ... taken time to consider, to allow things to settle and for the family to absorb what had happened and regroup.

But he didn't. He just leapt right in and told us how he believed part of her story of abuse, how he would like to communicate with her. How she didn't look like a murderer and all that kind of thing.

I think that's where a lot of the criticism of Mr Foreman is aimed. Not so much at his decision, which is his alone to make of course, but rather his insensitive comments so soon after the event.

I abhor the fact that this man has been threatened and received hate mail and so on. There is always a small minority that is prepared to take things way too far. However, did Mr Foreman genuinely think that his comments were not going to invite some response?

Just my opinion of course.

"...did Mr Foreman genuinely think that his comments were not going to invite some response?"

Well, if he did, it goes to show how truly wrong you can be twice in one week!
:facepalm:

 

[gcharlie]

Jurors walk into deliberations with their own life experiences. I wonder if he identified himself or someone he knows in this testimony.

" what happens to us as children, especially abuse, shapes who we become as adults"

Was he verbally abused as a child and then was verbally abuser himself as an adult? Maybe he put his own guilt onto Travis subconsciously? Who knows. There is not a perfect juror. I am just happy JA was convicted of M1.

While we know a lot more than the jury did during their deliberations, there is still so much that we do not know.

In time, I hope that someone does thoroughly research the backgrounds of both Travis and CKJA to provide a clearer picture of things, including CKJA's personality/behavioral issues.

With respect to Travis's upbringing, there is no doubt that he and his siblings suffered extreme neglect and impoverished conditions as children. The family seems to have come out of this remarkably whole and it is my sense that as children, they were given enough love and attention to help them compensate for the abuse that comes with parents with severe substance abuse problems. There was testimony regarding Travis's grandfather validating his worth and we know that their grandparents took them in under their wings. I also look at the number of photographs of Travis and his siblings as children; someone cared about those kids enough to take pictures.

Maybe its just me, looking for something positive where none might exist?

 

[rose222]

Having read that blog - whilst I have a great deal of sympathy for what he has written as heartfelt as it is, the problem is that Mr Foreman Junior has absolutely no comment to make on some of the things his father has said in the various interviews he has given.

Things that were best left unsaid (even if he thought them privately) - particularly in regard to Travis and his 'certainty' that Jodi was 'mentally and emotionally abused', not to mention his criticism of the prosecutor treating them 'like idiots' and so on, and going as far as criticising the judicial system as being 'flawed' ... a system that he agreed to participate in and then complains about afterward.

If he had just waited ... taken time to consider, to allow things to settle and for the family to absorb what had happened and regroup.

But he didn't. He just leapt right in and told us how he believed part of her story of abuse, how he would like to communicate with her. How she didn't look like a murderer and all that kind of thing.

I think that's where a lot of the criticism of Mr Foreman is aimed. Not so much at his decision, which is his alone to make of course, but rather his insensitive comments so soon after the event.
I abhor the fact that this man has been threatened and received hate mail and so on. There is always a small minority that is prepared to take things way too far. However, did Mr Foreman genuinely think that his comments were not going to invite some response?

Just my opinion of course.

Oh yes. Even some members here who are totally devoted to Justice for Travis have said that they would choose LWOP for JA. That's okay. But the things he said post verdict (betraying his fellow jurors in the process) was just cruel. Downright cruel. I feel like his cruel words post-verdict were like JA sending Travis' grandma flowers post-murder. Rub it in. Pour salt on open, painful wounds. Of course they are different cases with the latter being an extreme form of cruelty. But still..it reminded me of that.

 

[kscornfed]

It really is a crap shoot.

i swear i remember something early on where the DT was unhappy there weren't more women in the jury pool? did i dream that?

i remember thinking when i read that they must have thought women would be more sympathetic to JA, and i questioned that thinking. i thought women would be more likely to see through all her BS----which is why this woman has NO real female friends. she only has puppets like donovan, who she uses, and who's too gullible to see through her.
so i really want to know who the DP voters were. we know of ONE so far----a woman. the alternate doesn't count to me, since she didn't deliberate.

i guess maybe they thought some women would take JA's story of being used by TA and twist it and fit it into their own history of a bad relationship with some guy who dumped them (because i do NOT believe JA's story that the breakup was 'mutual').

 

[ShadyLady]

OMG...I was not going to come here this morning...and now I have so much to read and see!

 

[Arabian Girl]

Here is the information about the cases where the penalty phase was retried.

Arizona juries that couldn’t decide on death penalty
By The Republic | azcentral.com The Republic | azcentral.com Thu May 23, 2013 11:41 AM

There have been at least five hung juries in the death-penalty phase of cases in Maricopa County since a 2002 U.S. Supreme Court ruling that juries and not judges should determine if there are sufficient reasons, called aggravating factors, to sentence a murderer to death.
<snipped>

In three of those, the new jury gave death. In one, the defendant got life after two juries reached hung decisions. In the other, the state decided not to ask for a new jury. A brief look at each case:

http://www.azcentral.com/news/arizona/articles/20130522arizona-juries-that-couldnt-decide-on-death-penalty-prog.html

Thanks so much!! I've been googling for an hour and couldn't find it!!
:seeya:

 

[Tipstaff]

"...did Mr Foreman genuinely think that his comments were not going to invite some response?"

Well, if he did, it goes to show how truly wrong you can be twice in one week!
:facepalm:

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

Truer words were never spoken AG. Couldn't agree more. Mr Foreman might want to take a little vacation from the media in all forms.

 

[JSR]

I saw a couple of intetviews with CA jurors. They said they believed CA killed Cayle. They said they wanted DNA. The legal community said that jury miss the boat.

The Anthony jurors DID NOT think Casey killed Caylee. They thought George did. Although many of them said they didn't like Casey but didn't believe she killed her daughter.

 

[Sleuth5]

Not disagreeing with you AA, but here are my thoughts:

If a guy consistently had sacred sex with me but wasn't committing to me and lying to people about us, i'd feel like an object.

What in the heck is "sacred sex?"

 

[InALandFarFarAway]

I'm hoping a couple can't stop throwing up!!

still need a 'barf' emo!!! :facepalm:

I had to :floorlaugh:

Here are your :sick:uke: emoticons.

 

[kscornfed]

Oh yes. Even some members here who are totally devoted to Justice for Travis have said that they would choose LWOP for JA. That's okay. But the things he said post verdict (betraying his fellow jurors in the process) was just cruel. Downright cruel. I feel like his cruel words post-verdict were like JA sending Travis' grandma flowers post-murder. Rub it in. Pour salt on open, painful wounds. Of course they are different cases with the latter being an extreme form of cruelty. But still..it reminded me of that.

if you just take his one statement that jurors shouldn't be the ones deciding the DP, i'd say that is an argument AGAINST the DP in general, and not something a death qualified juror should say. PERIOD.

and i'm also with you that the more he says, the more it has to be hurtful to TA's family. so why say it? comparing the pain of the 2 families in the same sentence was very offensive to me, and i'm sure it was to them too. he made it sound like 'yes, i feel badly for the alexanders but the arias family is suffering too.' there is absolutely NO comparison between the pain of those 2 families, IMO.

so if he REALLY feels for the alexanders, i think he needs to make that a lot clearer than he has so far of just STFU. all i've heard him say is primarily about JA, not them, and not the VICTIM in this case, who is NOT jodi arias.

 

[21merc7]

https://i3.ytimg.com/vi/bQG2hRsWSi4/default.jpg A Beautiful Sociopath-Jodi Arias Criminal Profile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQG2hRsWSi4 3,454 views
A Beautiful Sociopath-Jodi Arias Criminal Profile
TheLipTV, Published on Apr 6, 2013.

Criminal Minds writer and retired FBI agent Jim Clemente discusses the criminal profile of Jodi Arias and how she has provided clear evidence of sociopathy in this Crime time REMIX on YouTube.

Want to add this video to the collection:

Robert Hare - Psychopath/Sociopath - The Difference - YouTube

 

[Harmony 2]

I am creating a new thread.. Be prepared to make a quick move in 10 minutes. I will be back with the link to the new thread and this one will close soon thereafter.

 

[21merc7]

What in the heck is "sacred sex?"

Dunno'. Does that mean love making? Being in love? Not just a booty call? May need a long weekend Sunday Morning drink to contemplate that. Perhaps I'll go find that old bottle of Hennigans and come to some enlightenment. Lol.

 

[gcharlie]

BBM

I think she treated him like an object - an object to give her kids, a house, and family life. She didn't care what was inside his soul. It's exactly like his said - dildo with a heartbeat. Except she didn't really want him for the sex, the sex was just a means to her end...the end being the house, kids, and family life, oh and money too. And the fake-attention to him was also the means to this end. Everything was fake. Everything was for her one goal: to fulfill the image she had in her imagination of what she wanted her life to be like.

He did not treat her like an object, IMO. He did not fake his feelings for her, whether in good times or bad. He did not lavish her with fake attention. He was real with her. When he talked to her on the phone, he was real. When he let her borrow his car, he was real. When he let her enter his house whenver she wanted and make herself at home in HIS house, he was real. When he went on trips with her, he was real. When he listened to her never-ending drama on the phone, he was real and his listening and attentivenes were real. When he offered her advice, it was real. WHen he loaned her money, it was for a real purpose to help her. When he let her come into his life and introduced her to his friends, it was real.

I feel strongly, very strongly, that Travis cared for JA on a very human level. I firmly firmly believe that if they had stopped having a sexual relationship, he would have stayed friends with her and helped her and cared about her. Genuine care, not fake like CMJA's "care."

No, they did not treat each other as objects. The objectification was only one-way...from CMJA to Travis.

Here's one thing that was not emphasized in the trial in terms of their relationship which explains why Travis continued to be involved with CKJA. PPL is structured as a pyramid business and Travis was CKJA's "boss", for lack of a better word. As long as CKJA was involved with PPL, Travis had to deal with her; his earnings were linked to hers and I believe that he had a responsibility to mentor and manage her. Just as Travis "reported" to Chris Hughes.

So CKJA had more than one hook into Travis that, IMO, should not be overlooked.

 

[Mare10]

Obviously I don't approve of people harassing the foreman in any way but I think I'll save all my pity and compassion for Travis and his family. I have none left for JA's fans...

While I totally agree that no one should harass them, I think if one opens the door when they knowingly make inflammatory statements then you will need to be ready for what follows. Throwing logs on the fire isn't very smart when dealing with the public at large. When you know that the majority of public opinion differs with yours and you are going to speak out publicly then you better be prepared for what happens next. I think he could have made his comments more concise and not elaborate. He spoke out first, therefore I believe the statement of him wanting to become famous before and not so much now. Celebrity comes with a price.

I do not condone threatening behavior but there are a lot of not so normal people out there. Don't put yourself in the center ring.

 

[Martha Morris]

Agree on much except have you seen the youtube from the prison guy describing what her life will be like??? For a BPD her existence will drive her further mad, I (almost) guarantee it.

Jodi Arias Rose colored glasses - Revised and Narrated - YouTube

That video relates to life post sentence .. and I agree with the narrator that her view of what her life will be like is very much 'rose tinted'.

However - that relates to life post sentencing.

At present she hasn't been sentenced - and between now and July (or whenever it happens) she remains in Estrella and her entire focus will be on the retrial. There will be numerous visits with attorneys, discussion and examination of the trial past, and what they can do, change, reappraise and so on. It was that I was referring to, not her long term incarceration, but what will happen immediately and what her demeanour will be like when she returns to court in a few months time.

Some were speculating that she will appear medicated and in a bad way and so on ... and I was merely speculating that I think the opposite, and that she will come back fighting fit - because that is what Jodi thrives on. The chance for another spotlight performance.

Hope that clarifies.

 

[Tipstaff]

What in the heck is "sacred sex?"

I think candles are involved, the shades are pulled and their are ropes and cameras involved according to JA. Oh and a " love sac". Must not forget that.:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

Now I must go get a shower. Yuck

 

[JSR]

So the trial will end in August. Wow. 8 months.

Maybe. I think her attys will ask for another extension. It's possible this thing won't start up until fall/winter. Lets hope Stephens grows a backbone and says no.

 

[Sleuth5]

Not saying that alot of men dont see right through her, but sometimes women see thru other women much quicker than men do jmo

I don't think this is necessarily gender-based, Cubbee -- it strikes me more as a matter of the experience either men or women have had with a particular behavioral profile. If you've run into manipulators in the past, you're going to be more apt to pay attention to warning signals. :moo: