IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #32

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What about this guy?
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2013/05/30/20860171.html
"A Maine man accused of murdering a 15-year-old girl used a fake Facebook account to lure her from her home earlier this month with the intention of kidnapping her and then pretending to rescue her, a police affidavit says.

Kyle Dube, 20, of Orono, has been charged with the kidnapping and murder of Nichole Cable. Her body was found in the woods May 20, a week after her mother reported her missing"
 
If Klunder is responsible, we will know that the murders were not "revenge" killings, that there is no connection to drugs, that the families are 100% not involved (we should already know that), that the children were lured (same as the Dayton case), that they may have been lured with the offer of earning some money, that they were restrained with zipties, that they were separated after they were abducted (note distance between bodies of 50 feet at 7 Bridges), that they were easily abducted by one person given Klunder's size ... many questions will be answered. If there are no signs of a cause of death, we might even know that the euthasia air gun was used.

I agree that if Klunder is our guy, my theory of the girls being taken by someone they knew would be wrong. So that question would be answered. It would also rule out a drug connection, IMO.

But the other things you mentioned are just educated guesses extrapolated from some of Klunder's past behavior. We have no way of knowing if he used zip ties, or lured the girls with the offer of making money, or if a euthanasia air gun was used. To me, this is speculation only, not answers.
 
I agree that if Klunder is our guy, my theory of the girls being taken by someone they knew would be wrong. So that question would be answered. It would also rule out a drug connection, IMO.

But the other things you mentioned are just educated guesses extrapolated from some of Klunder's past behavior. We have no way of knowing if he used zip ties, or lured the girls with the offer of making money, or if a euthanasia air gun was used. To me, this is speculation only, not answers.


Like Like Like :rockon:
 
If Klunder is responsible, we will know that the murders were not "revenge" killings, that there is no connection to drugs, that the families are 100% not involved (we should already know that), that the children were lured (same as the Dayton case), that they may have been lured with the offer of earning some money, that they were restrained with zipties, that they were separated after they were abducted (note distance between bodies of 50 feet at 7 Bridges), that they were easily abducted by one person given Klunder's size ... many questions will be answered. If there are no signs of a cause of death, we might even know that the euthasia air gun was used.

I don't think we know anything other than they girls were taken and are now deceased. I would even venture to say that we know that they were murdered, even if it is felony murder. JMO
 
Does Iowa issue temporary tags other than for a vehicle just purchased? Out here in AZ you can get a 3 day temporary tag for $1.00 (up to 3x/yr) that say you had a vehicle not running and are now taking it to emmissions or the mechanic to get repaired and a 30 day general permit (1x/yr). Just curious about Klunder's paper tag & thought about that.
 
After persistent reports by KCRG reporter Beth Malicki of dna evidence in the Collins-Cook case
http://www.kcrg.com/ I called KCRG (five minutes ago) and 'somebody' who would not identify themselves in the news room at KCRG issued the following statement:

"If you want to believe the internet vs. us, I can tell you we have spoken to law enforcement and there "is" dna that was collected in the Collins-Cook case."

I asked, "Where was that evidence collected and why hasn't law enforcement to my knowledge confirmed such evidence?"

The KCRG spokesperson said: " law enforcement has told us all along that they do have dna evidence in the case, as we have been reporting for weeks. And it is my understanding some of that evidence was collected at 7-Bridges when the girls were found. "

I asked the spokesperson if I could post this news on the internet and he replied: "You are free to post whatever you want on the internet. The internet is full of lot's of "stuff". "

I thanked the KCRG news person and am now posting this . . .

Please contact Beth Malicki at KCRG for further details on the dna she confirmed tonight law enforcement apparently has in the Collins-Cook case. http://www.kcrg.com/news/newsteam Hopfully Ms. Malicki will shed light as to the nature of the dna evidence LE has and where it (or multiple samples) were collected!

Thank you.
G.


:seeya:

Way to go, Georger !! Thank you, thank you, thank you !!

:thewave:
 
If Klunder is responsible, we will know that the murders were not "revenge" killings, that there is no connection to drugs, that the families are 100% not involved (we should already know that), that the children were lured (same as the Dayton case), that they may have been lured with the offer of earning some money, that they were restrained with zipties, that they were separated after they were abducted (note distance between bodies of 50 feet at 7 Bridges), that they were easily abducted by one person given Klunder's size ... many questions will be answered. If there are no signs of a cause of death, we might even know that the euthasia air gun was used.

I hope that is the case. Quick question though...if the euthanasia bolt gun was used that should have been a clue to LE that there was a farm connection? It may not be "easy" to trace, as anyone could have stolen a gun like that, etc. but it should have at least drawn their attention to farmers/workers as a start. Would MK have come up then?

I honestly think LE had no clue (and still doesn't) - they are looking into the possibility of MK being a suspect because of the similarity of two girls being abducted at the same time.

I'm very disappointed in the fact that MK hasn't come onto their radar - but at least they are admitting it. I can absolutely see him not coming up immediately - but after almost 11 months one would think that SOMEONE would have looked beyond the scope of their current pool of possible suspects. Resources aren't endless...I'm well aware of that.

However, it DOES make me wonder if the reason they didn't look out this far is because they had REASON to not look out that far.
 
I don't think we know anything other than they girls were taken and are now deceased. I would even venture to say that we know that they were murdered, even if it is felony murder. JMO


Agree ! :banghead:
 
If Klunder is responsible, we will know that the murders were not "revenge" killings, that there is no connection to drugs, that the families are 100% not involved (we should already know that), that the children were lured (same as the Dayton case), that they may have been lured with the offer of earning some money, that they were restrained with zipties, that they were separated after they were abducted (note distance between bodies of 50 feet at 7 Bridges), that they were easily abducted by one person given Klunder's size ... many questions will be answered. If there are no signs of a cause of death, we might even know that the euthasia air gun was used.

I hope they tell us other stuff that has generated discussion here. The Fareway rumors, the questions about other possible sightings, why they had reason to believe the girls were alive, the evidence found on certain family members' computers, etc. I doubt we'll ever know many of these details.
 
I hope that is the case. Quick question though...if the euthanasia bolt gun was used that should have been a clue to LE that there was a farm connection? It may not be "easy" to trace, as anyone could have stolen a gun like that, etc. but it should have at least drawn their attention to farmers/workers as a start. Would MK have come up then?

I honestly think LE had no clue (and still doesn't) - they are looking into the possibility of MK being a suspect because of the similarity of two girls being abducted at the same time.

I'm very disappointed in the fact that MK hasn't come onto their radar - but at least they are admitting it. I can absolutely see him not coming up immediately - but after almost 11 months one would think that SOMEONE would have looked beyond the scope of their current pool of possible suspects. Resources aren't endless...I'm well aware of that.

However, it DOES make me wonder if the reason they didn't look out this far is because they had REASON to not look out that far.

bbm - Yes, exactly !!

That's what I've been thinking all along... And, imo, it would explain why there has, seemingly to me at least, been a lack of urgent, safety warnings from LE to the community.
 
Does Iowa issue temporary tags other than for a vehicle just purchased? Out here in AZ you can get a 3 day temporary tag for $1.00 (up to 3x/yr) that say you had a vehicle not running and are now taking it to emmissions or the mechanic to get repaired and a 30 day general permit (1x/yr). Just curious about Klunder's paper tag & thought about that.[/quot

Klunder could have been driving the same vehicle he was driving last year. He could have just removed his plate and put on the temporary one. He could have a stash of plates to use.
 
I am confused after reading posts about the DNA database issue. Thanks in advance if anyone could answer these questions?
Was Klunder's DNA required to be in some database?
Was his DNA in the database if it was supposed to be?
Are all DNA databases in the US linked somehow?
 
Does Iowa issue temporary tags other than for a vehicle just purchased? Out here in AZ you can get a 3 day temporary tag for $1.00 (up to 3x/yr) that say you had a vehicle not running and are now taking it to emmissions or the mechanic to get repaired and a 30 day general permit (1x/yr). Just curious about Klunder's paper tag & thought about that.[/quot

Klunder could have been driving the same vehicle he was driving last year. He could have just removed his plate and put on the temporary one. He could have a stash of plates to use.

Pearl, you are very right, never thought of that.:rockon:
 
I hope that is the case. Quick question though...if the euthanasia bolt gun was used that should have been a clue to LE that there was a farm connection? It may not be "easy" to trace, as anyone could have stolen a gun like that, etc. but it should have at least drawn their attention to farmers/workers as a start. Would MK have come up then?

I honestly think LE had no clue (and still doesn't) - they are looking into the possibility of MK being a suspect because of the similarity of two girls being abducted at the same time.

I'm very disappointed in the fact that MK hasn't come onto their radar - but at least they are admitting it. I can absolutely see him not coming up immediately - but after almost 11 months one would think that SOMEONE would have looked beyond the scope of their current pool of possible suspects. Resources aren't endless...I'm well aware of that.

However, it DOES make me wonder if the reason they didn't look out this far is because they had REASON to not look out that far.

I don't know that an air gun would leave any evidence on a decomposed body. I don't know much about the euthasia air gun, but if it works with air pressure (what I understood from reading about it), then it wouldn't necessarily leave any evidence on a skeleton ... but I don't know.

I don't see any reason that Evansdale police should have investigated Klunder prior to the abduction in Dayton. He lived 90 miles away and hadn't committed a crime after serving time for abducting a woman and two three year olds many years earlier. He did not have any murder convictions and the three year olds were reportedly unharmed. I don't see any obvious connection between Klunder's earlier crimes and the abduction/murder of Lyric and Elizabeth in Evansdale ... other than the fact that I have always believed that the person that abducted/murdered Lyric and Elizabeth had committed some sort of crime in the past ... because no one starts their criminal career with the abduction and murder of two children.
 
I don't see any connection between Klunder and Lyric/Elizabeth at all. Sorry, but I think it's a stretch.

It's just as likely it was a jogger in a swan paddleboat with a lead pipe, for all we know.
Swan_paddle_boats.jpg
 
I don't know that an air gun would leave any evidence on a decomposed body. I don't know much about the euthasia air gun, but if it works with air pressure (what I understood from reading about it), then it wouldn't necessarily leave any evidence on a skeleton ... but I don't know.

I don't see any reason that Evansdale police should have investigated Klunder prior to the abduction in Dayton. He lived 90 miles away and hadn't committed a crime after serving time for abducting a woman and two three year olds many years earlier. He did not have any murder convictions and the three year olds were reportedly unharmed. I don't see any obvious connection between Klunder's earlier crimes and the abduction/murder of Lyric and Elizabeth in Evansdale ... other than the fact that I have always believed that the person that abducted/murdered Lyric and Elizabeth had committed some sort of crime in the past ... because no one starts their criminal career with the abduction and murder of two children.

The kidnapping of multiple victims should have been one of the first criteria to investigate, imo; and agree no one usually starts their career with abduction/murder, but the number of felons is also too huge to look at each and every one..no doubt. :banghead:

My suspect had possible ties to Aunt T, 40 plus charges on this record and had lived in Bremner County at one time. Of course, if LE has DNA...he wasn't a match either.

Arrrrgh!!!:facepalm:
 
I don't see any connection between Klunder and Lyric/Elizabeth at all. Sorry, but I think it's a stretch.

snipped

I don't think its a stretch. I think its quite possible MK and/or TC were involved.
 
Okay, so if there is dna collected at 7 bridges, wouldn't we know by now if Klunder is involved?

I've wondered the same... and yet, IIRC, we've seen estimates here in the past which imply it can take weeks to make a DNA determination... gads I hope not...

Jumping off Cinder's post:

On the subj of (#1) if they have perp DNA at 7bridges and (#2) if the said perp turns out to be the pigman... then why the h*ll didn't the pigman pop-up on DNA database search?!?

On that subj, here's my question: Is it possible that the perp DNA at 7bridges was so degraded by time and/or in such a small amt that the best the techs could do is employ that "multiply results thingy" which they use?

Is it possible that the "multiply results thingy" wasn't strong enough to trigger a match in DNA database???

O/T and ETA: I'm too tired to finish my thoughts... come on peeps, please somebody understand where I was headed, which has to to with "now that they have a strong DNA profile" for comparison...
 
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