Mistrial, Hung Jury - Raven Abaroa Murder in the 1st

[terminatrixator]

Thanks for the link, Born. Looks to me like Mani got a little snarky with a different witness earlier, and they had less self control with those scissors I was wishing for.
At first glance when I opened the link, I didn't recognize her, and thought maybe it was Amos's wife.
A bushyponytailcutteroffer (with nod to LL &S) definitely got her good.

That was when they became partners. Sometimes Amos goes for the buzz cut too. He was buzzed when he first took the case.

He had a deep tan and he shaved his head too, which I honestly think he looks better with the shaved head.

Mani, is attractive, but it's kind of gross to see her and Raven doing the arm rubbing against each other thing, I dubbed it having arm sex.

It's all a stage though, from the way Amos sat at one end, and Mani and Raven sat near each other, the jurors got to see Mani and Raven sitting so close and Tyndall, sat away from them. Mani gets up to confer with Amos, Raven scoots his chair back to allow her to squeeze past him. It's all a psychological game.

Like hey look, my client can't be guilty, I'm a woman and I'm sitting next to him and allowing his arm to touch mine, would I let a guilty man sit so close to me. There's Tyndall sitting away from Raven, basically giving the impression that see my client is safe, he's a good guy, I let him sit next to my partner, and no harm is going to come to her, I trust him to sit with her.

It's a stage and the jurors are the audience.

Well, come January, we'll be here for the next show.

 

[Moxie]

Since there have been discussions today about Raven's defense team, I am going to ask this question. I've been pondering it for awhile, and cannot come up with an answer. Here it is: Why would anyone want to be a defense attorney?

 

[Madeleine74]

I'm sure the reasons are vast but one essential reason I've heard multiple times is that many of those who study constitutional law (as law school requires) and believe in our country's constitution feel strongly about upholding the rights and protections afforded through the constitution and it's various amendments. Protection of rights under those laws and forcing the government/state meet their burdens as stated in those laws is essential. In an adversarial legal system such as ours, that role is required. The system could not function otherwise.

Doesn't mean a defense attorney has to believe their client is innocent or even like them; but they do have to advocate on the side of their client for the client's best outcome within the laws of the jurisdiction, which is their duty and requirement.

If a lawyer wants to be on the side that prosecutes people criminally there's only one place to do that--working for the state and county government.

 

[thefragile7393]

Since there have been discussions today about Raven's defense team, I am going to ask this question. I've been pondering it for awhile, and cannot come up with an answer. Here it is: Why would anyone want to be a defense attorney?

Everyone deserves a defense, especially the wrongly accused.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

 

[L L & S]

Since there have been discussions today about Raven's defense team, I am going to ask this question. I've been pondering it for awhile, and cannot come up with an answer. Here it is: Why would anyone want to be a defense attorney?

Well, there's the money factor, if your really good at it.

Then there's the love of the law and the challenge of a good debate within the parameters of our legal system. It's sometimes all a big fat game of words. Some people, and I can see this, may really honestly love it. I enjoy a good debate and sometimes enjoy it even more when I take on the challenge of debating on the side that I don't necessarily agree with.

There's the desire to help people. Not everyone who needs a defense attorney is a Raven Abaroa, or a Michael Morales etc. I'm sure that having the skills and knowledge to be an advocate for someone who needs help can be very rewarding.

When you think about it, a trial can easily become a game of words and manipulation. A sport, so-to-speak. Getting people to say what you want them to say, even if it's not what they mean to express. Convincing 12 impartial people to believe you and not the "other team". Acting, putting on a show, of sorts.

Now, if you're really just asking about defending people like Raven, or a child molester, or any other heinous crime..... I'm sure there are good solid reasons why a completely nice honest upstanding normal person would want to do it, but I can't think of any. I would not want to fight for the "legal" rights of someone like that. The only reasons that I can come up with are...

A real passion for our legal system and the desire to participate on that particular level of gore and heartbreak. To me, one would have to be very good at compartmentalizing their real lives from their work lives. I could not do that. It would haunt me.

And how about just the plain old fact that it can also lead to fame and fortune and everything that goes with that. It could be as simple as an ego thing.

I'm sure that someone else could explain it much more eloquently. I just know that I could not sit in a court room and twist facts, play word games, pay off people who spew fake science, straight out lie or any of that for say... a woman who stabs her boy friend 27 times, shoot them in the head, AND slashes their throats. If I were a defense attorney there would be a definite line that I could not cross. That's the best answer I can give you.

ETA: Madeleine also brought up a very good point about the desire to uphold the rights and protections afforded through the constitution. Some people can handle fulfilling that role, where I don't think I could keep it from messing with my head if I had to do it for a Charles Ng, or a BTK kind of person.

 

[L L & S]

Good question Moxie... interesting thought to consider.

 

[johnfear]

I've been watching the Young and Cooper trials to try to catch up with the history of this group. Five words.
Three peas in a pod.

It's funny that you said that. I had the opposite thought today. I was re-watching some of the Raven blah blah blah he's done (video interview wise) and I was shocked that he got a hung jury.

I (just personal opinion) don't think we will ever know what happened in the Cooper case. I'm not sold on anybody (police, defense, pros) having figured that one out. (I also don't buy into the "google maps planted by latinos with a van that hated Nancy's friends" theory but if it was legit, hiding behind National Security was a huge mistake and will likely force an appeal, retrial, etc.)

I think that Jason Young was the most interesting of the trials (or did, until I had to make the same or a very similar drive as him at roughly the same time of night and found that it was way EASIER than I had thought) I've watched with you guys because I was convinced he had coaxed someone into doing it or had an accomplice.

Raven though? If I were his defense attorney, I'd do the same thing Raven's been doing the whole time. Deny. Deny. Deny. BUT, I'd reverse the Jason Young strategic decision and (having one hung jury behind me) put a teary eyed, denying and crazily distraught Raven on the stand for one final performance. He's facing a high probability of life in prison. So, why not? I think that would suffice to hang a second jury. And I have to say that Durham County probably (like 66% likely) won't retry a third time.

 

[terminatrixator]

Raven on the stand, would definitely be grand. I wonder if he could keep it all straight though, was she hot, was she cold, did he give her a priest blessing, did she talk to him, how did it feel to kill your wife?

I highly doubt they will put KarEn on the stand again because I thought she was going to hop off the stand and go after Charlene. She has a really bad temper and I'm sure she was coached. Instead of tanning sessions, maybe she could take some acting lessons to curb her temper and bad acting.

Raven's a lot like his Mother, so could Raven hold his temper? Sometimes he can, but sometimes he can't. Raven grew up a con artist. I don't know much about Jason Young or Brad Cooper, but I believe that Raven is a different kind of bird than them. He's a habitual thief, habitual liar, that's why to me if he had taken a lie detector test, he may have been able to find ways to pass it at first, because with Raven, he is so good at lying. After Janet's murder, I don't think many people realized exactly how many women he blew through. He found ways to con so many women, girls, it's not even funny. He's actually a master manipulator, he's done it his entire life.

The interview with NC Wanted was not a high pressure situation. He was asked questions and he went from laughing to tears and there was some seriously bad acting and there wasn't a lot of pressure on him. Don't you think a jury would see right through it, especially after seeing the video of himself with the knife or the video of him talking after his discussion with Investigator Sole? He talked about wanting to win the lotto to "fight this" and he was talking about Websleuths and internet people. He didn't talk about finding the murderer of his wife, he talked about fighting WS, providing a home for Kaiden and as an afterthought, making Janet's name more known at Southern Virginia. How insane is that? He didn't have a memorial site for her, didn't visit her grave, didn't post a reward for information leading to the arrest of, that was done by the Carole Sund Carrington Foundation. He did nothing for 5 years, except get an underaged girl pregnant, steal from another company, and Mommy shop and live off other women.

I would love to see him take the stand, but just like I knew he wouldn't take the plea deal, I don't see him taking the stand.

 

[borndem]

Well, there's the money factor, if your really good at it.

Then there's the love of the law and the challenge of a good debate within the parameters of our legal system. It's sometimes all a big fat game of words. Some people, and I can see this, may really honestly love it. I enjoy a good debate and sometimes enjoy it even more when I take on the challenge of debating on the side that I don't necessarily agree with.

There's the desire to help people. Not everyone who needs a defense attorney is a Raven Abaroa, or a Michael Morales etc. I'm sure that having the skills and knowledge to be an advocate for someone who needs help can be very rewarding.

When you think about it, a trial can easily become a game of words and manipulation. A sport, so-to-speak. Getting people to say what you want them to say, even if it's not what they mean to express. Convincing 12 impartial people to believe you and not the "other team". Acting, putting on a show, of sorts.

Now, if you're really just asking about defending people like Raven, or a child molester, or any other heinous crime..... I'm sure there are good solid reasons why a completely nice honest upstanding normal person would want to do it, but I can't think of any. I would not want to fight for the "legal" rights of someone like that. The only reasons that I can come up with are...

A real passion for our legal system and the desire to participate on that particular level of gore and heartbreak. To me, one would have to be very good at compartmentalizing their real lives from their work lives. I could not do that. It would haunt me.

And how about just the plain old fact that it can also lead to fame and fortune and everything that goes with that. It could be as simple as an ego thing.

I'm sure that someone else could explain it much more eloquently. I just know that I could not sit in a court room and twist facts, play word games, pay off people who spew fake science, straight out lie or any of that for say... a woman who stabs her boy friend 27 times, shoot them in the head, AND slashes their throats. If I were a defense attorney there would be a definite line that I could not cross. That's the best answer I can give you.

ETA: Madeleine also brought up a very good point about the desire to uphold the rights and protections afforded through the constitution. Some people can handle fulfilling that role, where I don't think I could keep it from messing with my head if I had to do it for a Charles Ng, or a BTK kind of person.

And if you are an attorney in the Office of the State Defender (in NC jurisdiction), you are assigned a client. The Constitution doesn't say you have to get a NG verdict for your defendant, but it does say he/she is entitled to a fair & impartial trial. And in that effort, the presiding judge should also be a help because it is his/her duty to ensure a fair trial all the way around.

I think that is what keeps some attorneys (private or public) coming back for more -- making sure things are fair, regardless of the outcome ("What a Wonderful World that would be," goes the song.) Sometimes the defendant may be likely innocent, or there may be "bad" evidence against him/her, or the LE has botched things, etc., etc., and you must help your client against all of that. That is rewarding -- and prolly very rare.

And yes, if you are good, so is the money. And if you wanna win at any cost, there is that.

It depends a lot, IMO, on whether you can say, "Yes, my client is in jail for life, but he had a fair trial," and feel okay about it or be embarrassed and angry about it.

 

[JusticeJunkie]

It depends a lot, IMO, on whether you can say, "Yes, my client is in jail for life, but he had a fair trial," and feel okay about it or be embarrassed and angry about it.

Wow Born. Well said.

Just wanted to drop by. Haven't forgotten Janet's loved ones or their pain, and continue to pray for them.

 

[NCEast]

It's funny that you said that. I had the opposite thought today. I was re-watching some of the Raven blah blah blah he's done (video interview wise) and I was shocked that he got a hung jury.

Raven though? If I were his defense attorney, I'd do the same thing Raven's been doing the whole time. Deny. Deny. Deny. BUT, I'd reverse the Jason Young strategic decision and (having one hung jury behind me) put a teary eyed, denying and crazily distraught Raven on the stand for one final performance. He's facing a high probability of life in prison. So, why not? I think that would suffice to hang a second jury. And I have to say that Durham County probably (like 66% likely) won't retry a third time.

I, by accident, watched Nancy Grace Mysteries this past Friday night, that's how I found out about this current case. Brett Seacat is on trial for murdering his wife, Vashti Seacat. He is in law enforcement and thought he could commit the perfect crime, especially since he's now a CSI. He took the stand last week and thought he could fool the jury, lie, con, and everything else his way into a not guilty verdict but boy oh boy, it backfired on him. He HAD NOTES in his lap that he had to keep referring to in order to keep his lies straight while he testified. He would laugh at the most inappropriate times, cross himself up with his lies, it was just awful. But good for the prosecution. They had closing arguments today, the jury will begin deliberating tomorrow. It's been another of those con man, reminds me so much of Raven A.-- smarter than everybody else in the world husband cases who thought murdering his wife was easier than divorce.

 

[seattlechiquita]

I, by accident, watched Nancy Grace Mysteries this past Friday night, that's how I found out about this current case. Brett Seacat is on trial for murdering his wife, Vashti Seacat. He is in law enforcement and thought he could commit the perfect crime, especially since he's now a CSI. He took the stand last week and thought he could fool the jury, lie, con, and everything else his way into a not guilty verdict but boy oh boy, it backfired on him. He HAD NOTES in his lap that he had to keep referring to in order to keep his lies straight while he testified. He would laugh at the most inappropriate times, cross himself up with his lies, it was just awful. But good for the prosecution. They had closing arguments today, the jury will begin deliberating tomorrow. It's been another of those con man, reminds me so much of Raven A.-- smarter than everybody else in the world husband cases who thought murdering his wife was easier than divorce.

Oh, that dude is a piece of work, Seacat is. I listened to the testimony and I kid you not, it was as if he was playing expert witness. Arghhh. Jury has the case now. Verdict is possible as early as tomorrow. .

 

[JusticeJunkie]

Thinking of you, Janet. Prayers for your loved ones.

 

[seattlechiquita]

Thinking of you, Janet. Prayers for your loved ones.

Yeah, what JJ said. We are here, and will be here when RA sits at the defendant's table once more.

 

[tarheellvr]

We're all here, waiting for January.

Janet Marie you are loved by so many. I pray justice is served this time. How I wish more evidence would surface or more witnesses come forward. If you can Janet, show them something, lead them somewhere. We will never, ever let go until RA is where he should be.

Fly free, smile, and feel free from all your pain and suffering.......we love you Janet.

 

[tarheellvr]

Thinking of Janet on this cloudy afternoon..........

Love, peace, and strength to all her family and friends.

 

[tarheellvr]

You're in my heart Janet Marie. When I look at my grown children, I think of you. When I look at my granddaughter, I think of you. When I think how much I love my children, I'm reminded of how much your mother loves you.

I imagine you in college, getting married, becoming a mother. I imagine your quandary when you realized who and what you had married. Oh sweet, sweet girl I'm so very sorry.

I look forward to 2014 as it will be the year you finally have justice and your family has some peace. Raven took your life, but he couldn't take your soul. Rest easy sweet girl....he will get his very soon.

 

[JusticeJunkie]

You will never be forgotten Janet. Sending prayers for those who love you.

 

[tarheellvr]

Thoughts, prayers, and peace to Janet's family and friends.

You will always be loved Janet...........

 

[aa9511]

Hi all, I caught attention of Raven Aboroa when someone on another thread mentioned they were watching the trial. So went to youtube, saw opening arguments, and heard Websleuths mentioned IN the openings!! So that really peaked my interest. Then I came on here and read through this thread, found out last jury was hung.

My question is has the re-trial begun or does anyone know when it's starting? Can someone just give me a "status update" on this case? TIA! I would really like to follow the re-trial.