The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #6

[wfgodot]

I am interested in the idea that Sherrill might have been abducted before the girls got home.

Me too.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I am interested in the idea that Sherrill might have been abducted before the girls got home.

It is just a possibility. There is no evidence I know of that says all three had to be taken at the same time. It is conceivable that Suzie checked her mother's bedroom and seeing she was not home might have assumed the returning perp(s) were bringing her back home and opened the door.

All we know for a certainty is that Sherrill's last known contact was approximately 11:15 PM and that the girls arrived at approximately 2:50 AM. She could have been taken anytime during that three hour period and the perp(s) returned to "clean" up the crime scene and found the girls home so they were taken then. If the case is ever solved and the story told we will finally learn what took place.

 

[former central time]

It is just a possibility. There is no evidence I know of that says all three had to be taken at the same time. It is conceivable that Suzie checked her mother's bedroom and seeing she was not home might have assumed the returning perp(s) were bringing her back home and opened the door.

All we know for a certainty is that Sherrill's last known contact was approximately 11:15 PM and that the girls arrived at approximately 2:50 AM. She could have been taken anytime during that three hour period and the perp(s) returned to "clean" up the crime scene and found the girls home so they were taken then. If the case is ever solved and the story told we will finally learn what took place.

Mule...thanks for sharing ! While this may not be the scenario, this is very much ‘out of the box’ thinking. I personally think it has a LOT of merit. The general presumption has been, and I’ve read very little deviate from it, was they were all taken at the same time.

Back to your earlier post. My favorite points are: 2, 6, 9 and 10. Also, I echo your point about careful arrest and prosecution. In 1969, DA Jim Garrison was ‘absolutely convinced’ Clay Shaw was guilty of conspiracy in the murder of President Kennedy. Jury was unconvinced, Mr. Shaw walked. You get one bite at the apple...make it a good one.

Mule...on the cases the State lost, you referred to in your other post, are those the school teacher acquittals in the mid 90's ?

 

[Missouri Mule]

Mule...thanks for sharing ! While this may not be the scenario, this is very much ‘out of the box’ thinking. I personally think it has a LOT of merit. The general presumption has been, and I’ve read very little deviate from it, was they were all taken at the same time.

Back to your earlier post. My favorite points are: 2, 6, 9 and 10. Also, I echo your point about careful arrest and prosecution. In 1969, DA Jim Garrison was ‘absolutely convinced’ Clay Shaw was guilty of conspiracy in the murder of President Kennedy. Jury was unconvinced, Mr. Shaw walked. You get one bite at the apple...make it a good one.

Mule...on the cases the State lost, you referred to in your other post, are those the school teacher acquittals in the mid 90's ?

There were two cases represented by the same defense attorney and I believe were profiled on "Dateline" national TV. A Google search will discuss in greater detail.

 

[hipmomx2]

I appreciate the kind comments but in truth I have had a long interest in this case. Over a period of time the essential facts seem more evident and there has been much written about this case. I've also had some help along the way. But I would leave you with this thought. None of us laymen really know how the investigation is progressing or at all. We are just out of the loop.

What I do know is that from what I have seen has led me to advise everyone to let the professionals (the police) handle this case. Stated differently I am not looking to discover new suspects. If the police cannot solve this case with what they have it may never be solved. And I can state with certainty they have vast quantities of information at their disposal. I believe it is accurate to state that there are some 24 or more boxes of material at the SPD and every tip, rumor, etc., has been tagged and run to ground. It is not enough to know who committed the crime but how to convict them.

There is nothing we can do but to express our personal beliefs. I do believe what I posted but I can't guarantee you that what I said is provable fact.

Forgive me for not remembering but the alleged sighting at "George's" you are referring to, is that the restaurant the women were known to frequent where the waitress said she saw them but nobody else remembered seeing them on that busy night? Is that the name of the restaurant, Georges, or is this about something else? Can't remember.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Forgive me for not remembering but the alleged sighting at "George's" you are referring to, is that the restaurant the women were known to frequent where the waitress said she saw them but nobody else remembered seeing them on that busy night? Is that the name of the restaurant, Georges, or is this about something else? Can't remember.

That is correct. There was another false sighting at a convenience store but it was debunked early on as unfounded. In that case the woman who was in question came forward and the story collapsed.

In the George's sighting it is different in that none of the people who were alleged to have been there have come forward to knock down the story. Therefore it remains an open possibility. The reason I have discounted the story is because the timeline doesn't work very well as the girls were placed in Battlefield up until about 2:20 AM. Allowing for the time to get to the Delmar address or George's (a short distance away) does not allow very much time for the incident to have happened. It remains a distant possibility but seldom considered today. Also there was some question about the clothing the women were said to be wearing. That was told to me by a reporter who wrote about the case. Not impossible but unlikely.

 

[SuziQ]

Thanks for the recent posts on this thread. I think about this case all the time!

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Mule, you know I have always wanted the George's sighting to be true--probably because I am still hung up on how the killer picked these women (or one of them at least) to target.

It is still possible that one or more of the women knew their abductor(s), or that the girls were followed home, or that Sherrill was the target from the start, or that one of the girls had been an object of someone's fixation.

I just got done reading a lot about an old set of PA murders by a dirtbag named Edward Surratt. Among other horrible things he did was break into occupied homes, kill the male with a shotgun blast, and abduct the women. His female victims ranged from 16 (a girl abducted from a car, whose companion was shot) to mid-60s. He had victims out of PA who might even have been older. He told an investigator in Florida that it was all about sex. Some of the women have never been found. There were a number of these kinds of killings/abductions in a few months' time. He killed and raped and beat other people, some single males, as well. Now, this crime was far to subtle for Surratt, who actually dragged one victim out of the house barefoot, where she left both footprints and drag marks with her feet. He had been seen peeking in windows and eventually left a vehicle registered to him near a crime scene. But there was no connection between him and these people other than they lived in places where he was looking for victims.

So it may be that there is little or no connection between these women and whoever took them from their families. And without a Surratt-like pattern of similar crimes, it would be hard to pin it on someone who picked that house more or less randomly.

I am just musing here.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Mule, you know I have always wanted the George's sighting to be true--probably because I am still hung up on how the killer picked these women (or one of them at least) to target.

It is still possible that one or more of the women knew their abductor(s), or that the girls were followed home, or that Sherrill was the target from the start, or that one of the girls had been an object of someone's fixation.

I just got done reading a lot about an old set of PA murders by a dirtbag named Edward Surratt. Among other horrible things he did was break into occupied homes, kill the male with a shotgun blast, and abduct the women. His female victims ranged from 16 (a girl abducted from a car, whose companion was shot) to mid-60s. He had victims out of PA who might even have been older. He told an investigator in Florida that it was all about sex. Some of the women have never been found. There were a number of these kinds of killings/abductions in a few months' time. He killed and raped and beat other people, some single males, as well. Now, this crime was far to subtle for Surratt, who actually dragged one victim out of the house barefoot, where she left both footprints and drag marks with her feet. He had been seen peeking in windows and eventually left a vehicle registered to him near a crime scene. But there was no connection between him and these people other than they lived in places where he was looking for victims.

So it may be that there is little or no connection between these women and whoever took them from their families. And without a Surratt-like pattern of similar crimes, it would be hard to pin it on someone who picked that house more or less randomly.

I am just musing here.

Let me do my own musing. I think the prime perp was someone who had a knack for gaining someone's confidence and seemingly harmless. That is to say he was a con man and a true sociopath. But one would never suspect that. I think he could have been someone who frequented many Springfield neighborhoods and would have been seen by any number of people. He may not even have owned his own vehicle but walked over the city. I've seen such people walk all over the city when I worked there. I saw one individual who I swear must have worn out two pairs of shoes everyday. I'd see him everywhere it would seem and Springfield is not a small backwater town, either. I can't imagine it being him but at this point everyone must be a suspect.

I'm just not a big fan of some great big conspiracy of silence, burglars, and classmates being evasive and all the other theories advanced.

I think when this case is settled, if it ever is, we may find someone right in our midst that no one would ever have suspected. Dennis Rader, the BTK killer, although not in any way similar as to the crimes was a church deacon, a public employee and married about 35 years to his wife who never knew of his sexual perversions. Also, look at Ted Bundy. He worked in a crisis center along with Ann Rule, a well known true crime author and an ex police woman herself and she didn't have a clue.

We could be looking at someone who has flown right under the radar of everyone. It could be anyone although I truly do believe the police know who this person was. That is my own personal opinion, however but I will say this. I believe the original FBI profiler is dead on accurate and the most recent police statement on the 20th anniversary was also right on the money.

But where is the forensic evidence? That's the great unknown.

And then we have the matter of the flunked polygraph. No one it appears outside of the police it would seem know who that was.

And Cox concocted a phony alibi. It's a riddle wrapped inside a mystery inside an enigma to borrow Churchill's description of the old Soviet Union.

 

[armcha1r_detect1ve]

After much reading, I had not seen it mentioned so I figured I'd bring it up.

Sherrill was a hair dresser at a salon where she had 250 clients. It's possible that she was talking a lot about the graduation of her daughter as this would have been an exciting time for her. It's also possible that she may have been discussing the plans, the after parties, and the plans of her daughter to go to Branson.

Someone may have overheard this and determined that she would have been home alone and an easy target for robbery or something more nefarious. I think the 2 teenagers may have walked in on a crime in progress.

Were the salon's patrons predominantly women? It's possible a husband/son/brother of a patron, waiting for their wife/mother/sister, overheard them talking about plans and made plans of his own.

Was her clientele vetted?

 

[Missouri Mule]

After much reading, I had not seen it mentioned so I figured I'd bring it up.

Sherrill was a hair dresser at a salon where she had 250 clients. It's possible that she was talking a lot about the graduation of her daughter as this would have been an exciting time for her. It's also possible that she may have been discussing the plans, the after parties, and the plans of her daughter to go to Branson.

Someone may have overheard this and determined that she would have been home alone and an easy target for robbery or something more nefarious. I think the 2 teenagers may have walked in on a crime in progress.

Were the salon's patrons predominantly women? It's possible a husband/son/brother of a patron, waiting for their wife/mother/sister, overheard them talking about plans and made plans of his own.

Was her clientele vetted?

There were 223 clients that I know of. Approximately 95% were women and none set off any alarm bells from where I am sitting.

I seriously doubt if the kidnapper or kidnappers came from this group although Gerald Carnahan (Jackie Johns killer) often visited next door to where the salon was previously located and it is conceivable he might have gone to her but to my knowledge his name does not appear among the clientele.

I believe we are looking at someone not generally or at all known to the general public. The police almost surely have his name and have had it for some period of time. Forensics is the problem in my opinion. There is no way to know if DNA was left behind and the crime scene was greatly corrupted by later visitors.

 

[fullmoon]

The National Center for Missing & Exploited Children has been reviewing this case for about a year. Their investigators have requested DNA from some earlier suspects. So the police department must have unidentified DNA that holds promise in solving this case. Could have been on the purses, the door knobs, or even an unidentified blood drop. I strongly believe once the Center completes its review, police will start building their case against the perp or perps.

 

[amber1]

I hope so! Does anyone know what became of the hospital parking lot tip featured on Disappeared where they scanned the ground and thought they found some possible human remains?
Disappeared - The Springfield Three - YouTube

 

[Brice]

Stacy's mother didn't have the phone number to the new house. Whoever called on Sunday morning with sexual overtones did. Was someone watching the house?

Were all the neighbors questioned?

 

[fullmoon]

Stacy's mother didn't have the phone number to the new house. Whoever called on Sunday morning with sexual overtones did. Was someone watching the house?Were all the neighbors questioned.

Good point. I've often wondered if danger lurked closer to home. I have to believe the neighbors were all interviewed. Those interviews would be locked up in the files of the case. There really isn't much to talk about regarding this case because of the ongoing nature of the investigation. Nothing here to see. No friends or family of the victims who will discuss this case, nor investigators or researchers. Without them, this case falls further into obscurity. After 21 years, for God's sake, where are the friends and families of these victims who will talk about this case to keep it from fading away?

 

[kashmir]

Stacy's mother didn't have the phone number to the new house. Whoever called on Sunday morning with sexual overtones did. Was someone watching the house?

Were all the neighbors questioned?

Whoa! Good catch. That never occurred to me. I feel like it is the accumulation of many small things, rather than a sledgehammer breakthrough, that will make this case. However, so many small things are frustrating. Did Sherril ever jot down her home #on her business cards for special customers? Growing up, my hair lady had given my mom her home number besides her salon number because she was afraid the salon manager wasn't giving her all of her messages. This was before cell/car/mobile phones were in use. Many hairdressers leave stacks of cards around town and at bridal fairs, fashion shows, etc....was she ever between salons and maybe used her home answering machine to book appointments?

Another thought: For Springfield in the early 90's, Dillard's or Famous-Barr would have been the last word in prom fashion, besides any individual bridal shops. Stacy modeled wedding dresses...could Sherril have had her card on file with any of these shops for formal hairstyles? (along with any seamstresses, makeup artists, etc.) Then a salesperson could pass along Sherrils name as a recommend stylist to customers. Maybe even a salesperson who knew Sherril personally and just gave out her home number because she couldn't remember what salon she was working during that time?

Bartt, keep your head up, man. So many people still think about your family and you do their memory proud.

 

[former central time]

Whoa! Good catch. That never occurred to me. I feel like it is the accumulation of many small things, rather than a sledgehammer breakthrough, that will make this case. However, so many small things are frustrating. Did Sherril ever jot down her home #on her business cards for special customers? Growing up, my hair lady had given my mom her home number besides her salon number because she was afraid the salon manager wasn't giving her all of her messages. This was before cell/car/mobile phones were in use. Many hairdressers leave stacks of cards around town and at bridal fairs, fashion shows, etc....was she ever between salons and maybe used her home answering machine to book appointments?

Another thought: For Springfield in the early 90's, Dillard's or Famous-Barr would have been the last word in prom fashion, besides any individual bridal shops. Stacy modeled wedding dresses...could Sherril have had her card on file with any of these shops for formal hairstyles? (along with any seamstresses, makeup artists, etc.) Then a salesperson could pass along Sherrils name as a recommend stylist to customers. Maybe even a salesperson who knew Sherril personally and just gave out her home number because she couldn't remember what salon she was working during that time?

Bartt, keep your head up, man. So many people still think about your family and you do their memory proud.

It’s my understanding that the crank/obscene calls were unrelated to the case or incidental. As to getting the number, that wasn’t hard. Let’s walk back through this.

First, I don’t know if Sherill kept her old number when she moved. In that era, you could do that with certain companies and/or if your move was a short distance.

Second, if it was a brand new number, circa April ‘92, did she have her number unlisted AND unpublished ? For a small charge you can request that and I’ve done it all my adult life which was during this era too. Also, you could block caller ID, which will still broadcast unpublished/unlisted numbers if you don’t. Barring that, a simple 4-1-1 or the 555-1212 routine will give you a number and address.

Third, presuming all of the second point, your number gets out through ordinary business and living. For example, Sherill had to give the department store her number for the waterbed, and credit people got it, I’m sure the delivery guys had it (and visited the home itself), the school had it for Suzie (this is before Columbine), and the hairshop. I don’t think Sherill shared it with her clients, far different world then to stylists doing that with their cells today. Working around the margins a little, it wouldn’t be tough to get the number if you wanted it.

I don’t know what the crank/obscene calls were from/about. Whether it was random, creeps stumbled across a number where only women answered. Or Sherill or Suzie called someone, wrong number, and creeps got it on the caller ID. But I haven’t heard it as contrived.

 

[Simply Caustic]

It’s my understanding that the crank/obscene calls were unrelated to the case or incidental. As to getting the number, that wasn’t hard. Let’s walk back through this.

First, I don’t know if Sherill kept her old number when she moved. In that era, you could do that with certain companies and/or if your move was a short distance.

Second, if it was a brand new number, circa April ‘92, did she have her number unlisted AND unpublished ? For a small charge you can request that and I’ve done it all my adult life which was during this era too. Also, you could block caller ID, which will still broadcast unpublished/unlisted numbers if you don’t. Barring that, a simple 4-1-1 or the 555-1212 routine will give you a number and address.

Third, presuming all of the second point, your number gets out through ordinary business and living. For example, Sherill had to give the department store her number for the waterbed, and credit people got it, I’m sure the delivery guys had it (and visited the home itself), the school had it for Suzie (this is before Columbine), and the hairshop. I don’t think Sherill shared it with her clients, far different world then to stylists doing that with their cells today. Working around the margins a little, it wouldn’t be tough to get the number if you wanted it.

I don’t know what the crank/obscene calls were from/about. Whether it was random, creeps stumbled across a number where only women answered. Or Sherill or Suzie called someone, wrong number, and creeps got it on the caller ID. But I haven’t heard it as contrived.

Good post. One question...how does "before Columbine" factor into the phone issue? I'm trying to think how Columbine affected phone numbers for students and I can't figure it out. Thanks in advance.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

 

[former central time]

The Columbine remark was somewhat flippant, regarding the additional security measures that were implemented and how free flowing information was to visitors and so on. Like the airport security after 9/11. Touchy feely but won’t stop terrorism. Fact is, if someone wanted that information, it could be obtained fairly easily, then and now.

But, all of the previous post was about ‘getting the number,’ as there was a hang up about that. It all presupposes a more conspiracy setting, more players and more going on. I’m generally in the camp of the random sex assault, or if they (perps) had some observational knowledge that women lived there, very minor preplanning. I’ve have not be made aware these crank/obscene calls were related to the disappearance.

 

[Brice]

I know it's been said that it could have been a professional hit, that maybe someone was into something they shouldn't have been in, but what professional goes through the trouble of wiping down prints and leaves a broken light bulb?