George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #4

[Horace Finklestein]

If you live for your entire 19.5 years in U.S., I would feel that your main/most often used language would be English.
And I cannot believe most of the "talking heads" on all TV channels keep referring to her as this young teenager, when I am pretty sure she is closer to age 20 than to being a young teen. To me, a young teen means from 13 to 15 or so, not almost 20. But what do I know anyway? Sorry to be so negative.

Bill Sheaffer's in rare form defending her, calling her a "child". Just absurd imo

 

[corundogs]

I posted it, and apparently whoever is officiating the thread considered it too personal because it wound up being deleted.

I will get to the rest of your questions in a second. This is the second question I have:

If someone kicked in your front door, had a gun, and said they were going to kill you, would you feel like you were entirely justified in killing them?

Abso-freakin'-lootly!!!!!

 

[Tulessa]

I posted it, and apparently whoever is officiating the thread considered it too personal because it wound up being deleted.

I will get to the rest of your questions in a second. This is the second question I have:

If someone kicked in your front door, had a gun, and said they were going to kill you, would you feel like you were entirely justified in killing them?

TOS is in my siggy! :seeya:

 

[iluvmua]

I have two questions.

1. Was the neighborhood actually a gated community/ Which, to me, is a neighborhood or townhome complex where you need a passcode to drive into it?

2. Did Tracy Martin's fiancée (no disrespect intended, I don't know her name) live in that community?

Yes, she did live there

from the picture I saw it looked like you could drive straight through.

JMO

 

[m00c0w]

Florida is kinda weird, no? I lived in NC when I was in my late teens early 20s. (Not that long ago) anyway I remember that a young lady was calling me threatening to come over and get in a fight, I called police, they came out, and I remember the police telling me that I right to defend myself if she attacked me. But specifically remember him saying so something like "if she punches you, you can defend yourself, however it's not like you can shoot her".

I know stand your ground is in Florida, but it my understanding that GZ is just using a standard self defense claim. Am I wrong about that?

You are required to use a proportional amount of force. Getting punched does not equate to a threat on your life. Getting your head repeatedly slammed into the sidewalk might.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Then he didn't think his gun was any protection ? He couldn't have just pulled his gun and held TM in place until LE arrived ? No offense, but his Woe Is Me tale has no rhyme or reason. His " injuries" were extremely minimal. They didn't even bother to do X-Rays.

Should he have waited until he sustained more severe injury before defending himself? Any injury justifies self defense imo. GZ did the right thing.

 

[lauraoh]

1. It was not gated.

2. Yes.

Thank you!

 

[lil_buddy]

There is such a thing is burglary prime time?

I would assume burglars don't want to interact with residents...

"Burglaries can occur at any time of the day and during any day of the week but most commonly they occur between the hours of 10 am and 3 pm. This fact surprises a great number of homeowners because they falsely believe that criminals prefer to operate under the cover of night time. While night time darkness does offer cover, night time is also the period of time when homeowners are most likely to be home. Between the hours of 10 am and 3 pm, homeowners are more likely to be at work or out of the home running errands making a burglary easy and reducing the chances of being caught significantly."

http://www.asecurelife.com/burglary-statistics

Doc from the Dept. of Justice confirming above assertion...
http://www.cops.usdoj.gov/pdf/e07021611.pdf

 

[m00c0w]

Abso-freakin'-lootly!!!!!

Thank you for being honest. It seriously helps these sorts of discussions.

What you have just done is applied "fear for your life" as a reasonable individual.

Your statement (not trying to get personal with this; several others have made this claim) was:

On the other hand, so George's actions that caused Trayvon to fear for his life and allegedly punch him to get away from a creepy guy following him with unknown intentions have no bearing???​

If you do not feel Martin was justified in killing Zimmerman, how does that reconcile with him allegedly being in peril of death?

Going off of that, if he was not in fear to the extent that deadly force is admissible, he has a duty to retreat under Florida law.

These are the facts as we know them.

Certainly, this changes if Zimmerman tried to "apprehend" Martin, or if Zimmerman elicited some sort of physical threat that prevented Martin from retreating. However, there is not any evidence that this occurred. In this scenario, Martin would have had the duty to retreat before using self-defense. Which we know he had plenty of time to do - over 2 minutes according to the 911 call.

 

[Arishia]

It's not a lie if EMT actually told him that. Expect the EMT to be called to the stand to testify to that.

That would be an odd thing for a medic to do, but strange things do happen. Perhaps the medic said "You're nose might be broken." That's very likely, whereas the medic "diagnosing a closed fracture" of the nose is against protocol.

 

[faw720]

I honestly wonder if Rachel would have been able to describe "wet grass noise" better (other than "wet") in Haitian Creole or even Spanish. I know when I run through wet grass or even walk through it it sounds kind of "sploshy" (I know that isn't a word)...I can't even think of a way to describe it in English and it's my first language.

ETA: I have no idea what wet grass noises on the phone sound like. Did she hear running through wet grass? The sound of the phone's speaker sliding on something wet like blades of grass? I have no idea.

They now have a resident of the town homes on the witness stand. The incident was just outside her back door which was open. She has made mention of hearing sounds on the sidewalk & also sounds on the grass. Sooo,Rachel was not the only one to hear grass sounds. I'm thinking the sounds were "squishey" since the grass was wet.

 

[Tulessa]

I'm still on the fence, and am gonna wait to see how the evidence plays out in court...

 

[lisalei321]

Just in case it wasn't discussed here (ref: Rachel's "I don't read cursive"):

"In the United States, somewhere around the third grade, cursive handwriting instruction has long been a sort of milestone, or rite of passage. But in recent years, the nation's Common Core State Standards — which at least 45 states and the District of Columbia, have voluntarily adopted — took out the requirement for cursive instruction in K through 12 schools."
from http://www.theroot.com/buzz/cursive-still-necessary

I am a college instructor and very few of my students who are under 25 write in cursive.

My 24, 23, 21, 16 and 13 year olds did not learn cursive in school, they were taught by me, using the same templates I used in 3rd grade

Sent from my LG Spirit using Tapatalk 2

 

[m00c0w]

They now have a resident of the town homes on the witness stand. The incident was just outside her back door which was open. She has made mention of hearing sounds on the sidewalk & also sounds on the grass. Sooo,Rachel was not the only one to hear grass sounds. I'm thinking the sounds were "squishey" since the grass was wet.

I think it would be easier to hear sounds like that in real life than over a telephone.

JMO

 

[Tulessa]

They now have a resident of the town homes on the witness stand. The incident was just outside her back door which was open. She has made mention of hearing sounds on the sidewalk & also sounds on the grass. Sooo,Rachel was not the only one to hear grass sounds. I'm thinking the sounds were "squishey" since the grass was wet.

Thank you. I gave up on trying to describe the grass sounds.

 

[Tulessa]

I think it would be easier to hear sounds like that in real life than over a telephone.

JMO

When hubby gets up from his nap, I'll get him to take his cell outside. We'll figure this one out. And yes, it's raining.

 

[PaperDoll]

Ok, it's been awhile since I read and heard the police report, etc. So I went back to listen to GZ tell the police how he shot TM. Well, he had said that TM had his hands on GZ mouth and nose and he then couldn't breath, then said he tried to get up and his shirt went up and TM saw the gun and said "you are going to die tonight mother f..ker then GZ stopped him and shot him. Here is the problem I have with this. How could these screams come from someone who's mouth and nose are being covered? Did the screams on this 911 call seem to continue, then after the shot there was silence?

 

[m00c0w]

When hubby gets up from his nap, I'll get him to take his cell outside. We'll figure this one out. And yes, it's raining.

Awesome! :rockon:

 

[iluvmua]

I've pretty much made up my mind but that could change if the state has factual evidence to back up what they said in their opening statements.

 

[Suzanna in Arizona]

This is not in reply to anything, it is just an observation by me. But, if I raise my children in the U.S., to me it is imperative that I as their parent should make sure they are learning what they need to know in school. If not, it would be MY PLACE to teach them proper English sentences, how to act in public, how to speak properly, how to answer your elders (especially in court), etc. etc. Again, it is MY place to teach them along with expecting the teachers to teach them. JMO

I have sympathy for Rachel after reading more about her upbringing and all the languages spoken in her house.