George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #14 Friday July 12

[Karmady]

I just can't believe Zimmerman was in fear of his life. That's my problem with accepting self-defense, and that for me is beyond a reasonable doubt. The bumps could have partly the shape of his head and there was still no bruising (interesting he has grown his hair now!), head wounds are vascualar so they bleed easily and yes he had a broken nose but that's it. He had no other bruises or injuries. That just can't constitute someone being in fear of his life.

Maybe in some ways my thinking is leftover from the JA case. However yes her case for self-defense was ridiculous, we (almost) all know that. And yes Zimmerman had *some* injuries but that's it....

I can't buy the self-defense and that's beyond a reasonable doubt for me which is why I think Zimmerman has to be guilty of something. Zimmerman was out to find Trayvon - he wasn't going to let this one get away IMO.

Btw, MOM's argument is better than the Bernie's IMO. Bernie was just too aggressive. I want Mantei to do rebuttal.

In any event, RIP Trayvon.

You don't have to be in fear for your life. You can also fear great bodily harm. Also, the prosecution has to prove its charges beyond a reasonable doubt regardless of whether the defendant acted in self defense.

jmo

 

[gauntlet]

You don't need to sustain any injuries to be in fear of your life. Zero.

I've lost count how many times this has been posted today. It's in the statute.

I understand that, I really do. However Zimmerman said that Trayvon hit him 20 times or whatever it was, had his head slammed against the concrete etc and that's why GZ shot Trayvon. If GZ hadn't said all that, I'd be more inclined to let him off.

ETA - Yes O'Mara is addressing this now but I'm not buying it. Sorry.

 

[cityslick]

You also can't just take someone's word that they had reasonable fear for their life. Otherwise, nobody would ever be convicted of murder.

You're right. Usually the state has evidence to disprove a defendants version of events.

The state in this case has none. It's innocent till proven guilty, it's always been like that, it's always going to be like that. Prove that he's guilty.

IMO

 

[sacrablue]

If GZ didn't have a gun he would still be in his SUV talking to his wife. IMO

 

[PaperDoll]

how owuld you position them that GM's hand would be right in front of his nose, but the GSW hit TM in the chest?

That picture does not show someone being punched multiple times in the nose, it just doesn't. I see a small scratch and this is right after the incident, cleaned up.


Opps, pic didn't come through that I was refereeing to

 

[Perthgirl62]

You attack your neighbor.

The neighbor overpowers and straddles you--not using deadly force

Straddles you and starts pounding your head into the concrete--neighbor is using deadly force--you can shoot

IMO

Really, but isn't pounding the head in the ground just another form of defense because neighbor genuinely feared for their life. This is how absurd the argument is, it's somewhat like a Merry-go-round, IMO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

The state clearly proved that GZ killed Trayvon, since he admitted it. The defense needs to show how it was justified.

No. That is not the law.

The state has to prove MURDER. Not just that he killed him. GZ admitted killing TM that was never a question.

THe STATE has to prove MURDER.

 

[defense101]

That is not the law. The law is that the state has to prove MURDER. They have to have evidence of that and prove it.

GZ does not have to prove a thing. NOT legally.

And that is what matters. Not emotion.. Not what you want to happen but what is legally required.

Oh so he isn't claiming self defense?

 

[logicalgirl]

AGAIN, It matters not what he injuries are. He only has to be in reasonable fear of great bodily injury or death.

It has to be based in law. Not emotion.

As does TM..

IMO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Really, but isn't pounding the head in the ground just another form of defense because neighbor genuinely feared for their life. This is how absurd the argument is, it's somewhat like a Merry-go-round, IMO

No. It is aggression and assault.

 

[William N]

He could have shot, the gun recoils.

hard and slams any part of the gun into his face. Not unlikely. Very possible. Explains tons of evidence of no DNA, no skin under nails, injuries but none on Trayvons hands.

Recoil

And how did the recoil cause the wounds on the back of GZ's head? These came IMO from TM slamming GZ's head into concrete.

 

[SilkySifaka]

I agree with him being charged for manslaughter. While I personally can see how the defense arrived at 2nd degree charges (even the lead investigator wanted 2nd degree initially), unfortunately I don't see the jury going for it. It's highly likely that GZ will be charged with manslaughter, and since it was committed with a firearm, he'll likely do a decent amount of time for it, at least 10 years.

From your mouth to God's ears

 

[logicalgirl]

No. That is not the law.

The state has to prove MURDER. Not just that he killed him. GZ admitted killing TM that was never a question.

THe STATE has to prove MURDER.

The State has to prove Manslaughter....or Murder

IMO

 

[sacrablue]

Stand your ground? GZ said he did not know what this was. Fact MOM ... IMO

 

[RANCH]

O 'Mara is doing an awesome job negating the state's case. MOO.

 

[Karmady]

IMO

Well they didn't exactly have any of their own did they? Except family members/friends who said of course that is George screaming...

IMO

The prosecution called most of the defense witnesses. Highly unusual, imo.

jmo

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Oh so he isn't claiming self defense?

IT DOES NOT MATTER.

YES. AS A RESPONSE TO STATE CHARGES.

Once they charge you the STATE has to prove the charges. GZ does not have to prove anything. The STATE has to prove their case beyond ALL reasonable doubt.

That is the law.

 

[Isabelle]

Sweet, MOM showing pictures of the gunshot wound to TM's chest in a manner as if it really is no big deal. Trying to prove either the blood was washed off or wiped off. Way too laid back for me. He just doesn't seem to be into his work. IMO

 

[logicalgirl]

And how did the recoil cause the wounds on the back of GZ's head? These came IMO from TM slamming GZ's head into concrete.

Two small wounds that didn't need stitches...heads bleed profusely when cut.

IMO

 

[cityslick]

IMO

Well they didn't exactly have any of their own did they? Except family members/friends who said of course that is George screaming...

IMO

Nope. Forensic expert, Gym owner, LE, etc.