Verdict Watch Thread Saturday July 13

[Overuled]

They asked him if he was following him and he said yes. They asked him that because he was obviously puffing. They said we don't need you to do that - and he answered back still very obviously puffing. It wasn't a big complex - why bother to get a number - when the one where he parked his car was clearly visible?

IMO

I believe the testimony was that the wind was blowing and that was the noice heard. Have you had a chance to listen to all of the trial.

moo

 

[PaperDoll]

They asked him if he was following him and he said yes. They asked him that because he was obviously puffing. They said we don't need you to do that - and he answered back still very obviously puffing. It wasn't a big complex - why bother to get a number - when the one where he parked his car was clearly visible?

IMO

This whole address issue, to me, is another stretch of the truth. Why not just stay put that way you know the cops can meet you right where you are. GZ was in different locations making things worse, if you want the cops to find you, stay put. Also, GZ, just go home and let the cops meet you there, you know your own address don't you? Then when the cops arrive, tell them what you saw and let them do their job even if this "suspect" gets away, let the cops handle it. :twocents:

 

[logicalgirl]

And when did the state prove otherwise? The prosecution has the burden of proof and has been reduced to theories and speculation IMO.

Again, the prosecution and defense have reversed roles in this trial IMO.

We were talking about civil rights and that TM "should" have gone home. TM had the same civil rights as GZ. As much as TM "should" have gone home IYO - GZ "should" have stayed in his car - IMO.

George was apparently afraid. Isn't that why he had a gun? Why get out of the car?

 

[marlap]

Afternoon folks! I thought I'd stop in here and watch the acrimony while waiting on a verdict.

Hi Schuby :seeya:

Just douse us with disco if we get outta hand!

 

[logicalgirl]

This whole address issue, to me, is another stretch of the truth. Why not just stay put that way you know the cops can meet you right where you are. GZ was in different locations making things worse, if you want the cops to find you, stay put. Also, GZ, just go home and let the cops meet you there, you know your own address don't you? Then when the cops arrive, tell them what you saw and let them do their job even if this "suspect" gets away, let the cops handle it. :twocents:

LOL - apparently he doesn't know his own address because he gave the LE the wrong number when they asked him where he lived.

 

[ShadyLady]

HLN....Showing Deedee again...total disrespect for court. IMO

 

[logicalgirl]

I believe the testimony was that the wind was blowing and that was the noice heard. Have you had a chance to listen to all of the trial.

moo

Yes - all of the testimony and all of the documents or I wouldn't be commenting. There was testimony that there was little or no wind that evening.

IMO

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I noticed his demeanor every time they showed the picture of TM's dead body also. GZ showed no emotion, but he certainly didn't mind looking at the picture each and every time they showed it. He appeared to have kept his eyes glued to it. It really didn't seem to bother him one bit. I also noticed yesterday when MOM, during closing arguments, brought GZ forward in front of the jury GZ couldn't even look the jury in the eye. I came into this case thinking GZ was guilty. I've always had a bad feeling about him. After watching this trial I still feel that way. I think if he had shown any kind of remorse for what he did, or at least shown some discomfort over being on trial fighting for his life, I could maybe squeeze out some sympathy for him. But if he can't find it in himself to feel bad or regret what he did, then why should I feel bad for him. Just simply identifying himself could have caused a different outcome that night. I truly wish GZ would have been smarter that night and that none of this happened, but IMO he's as guilty as sin.

And he also told Sean Hannity that if he had it to do over, he wouldn't have done anything differently that night.

 

[PaperDoll]

It's not difficult to grab a gun with someone on top of you...It's not a static position...The legs aren't glued to you...

If you shift your body to the right or left you will create enough space to reach for your gun...IMO

BUT we are going by GZ's demonstration here and his demonstration doesn't make sense, and this is evidence and in his own words.

 

[TorisMom003]

I believe the testimony was that the wind was blowing and that was the noice heard. Have you had a chance to listen to all of the trial.

moo

The dispatcher that was on the phone with him at the time also was on the stand and said that he asked Zimmerman if he was following the "suspicious" person because of the noises heard over the phone. You can also hear on the recorded call that Zimmerman is in fact out of breathe when he is saying Yea and OK to the dispatcher. The noise of "wind" is also heard for several seconds after Zimmerman says OK but has stopped before Zimmerman is off the phone with the dispatcher. So why does the "wind" noise stop before Zimmerman is off the phone and we know he is not in his truck?

 

[qwerty2013]

Well, technically the recoil never changes. Just the ability for the person to manage the recoil.

Shooting one-handed is often unstable and actually used in many varieties of firearm tests. One of which is the effect limp-wristing has on the firearm, since it's more prevalent when using only one hand. This is why the ATF and other government agencies refrained from using the P250 as their service weapon - too many limp wristing issues which becomes a problem if you're in a fight for your life and the weapon tends to jam when you may not be in the ideal stance (or your primary or off hand is injured/unable to help stabilize the gun).

But, I digress. It is possible that shooting one-handed may have caused Zimmerman to have less control of the weapon. It's possible that the recoil caused the weapon to contact his nose. However, the recoil would have realistically only been able to cause lacerations at best. People that have scopes rammed into their face from improperly shooting high-powered rifles don't often suffer facial fractures, and only minor lacerations above or around the brow area.

:twocents:

Thank you, this is helpful. Has there been any recoil incidents where gravity played a part, ie. the resulting recoil from being in probe position firing up and close to face.?:twocents:

 

[Schuby]

Hi Schuby :seeya:

Just douse us with disco if we get outta hand!

:seeya:

 

[sacrablue]

The fact that GZ hit TM in the center of the chest is valuable. If you are moving and struggling and you see a gun 4 inches from your heart you will do everything in your power to grab or move the gun.
Since TM was much stronger than GZ which tells me it was a surprise ambush type shot.
I am sure GZ was trained a little about drawing a fire arm.

 

[PaperDoll]

LOL - apparently he doesn't know his own address because he gave the LE the wrong number when they asked him where he lived.

LOL I remember that.. When he was giving his statement to the police he said something along the lines of "I don't know why I always want to say 06 instead of 05.. not exact words, but you get the point.. :blowkiss:

 

[Moonie]

I think this is one of the things that bothers me the most. Zimmerman was instrumental in getting the neighborhood watch going in the neighborhood. He was the one that was trading emails back and forth with the LE representative that came out to "train" the neighborhood watch volunteers. He was the one that was placed in the Neighborhood Watch Captain role and was the person that neighbors were told to contact, after calling LE, to notify about crimes in the neighborhood. And yet he is the one that decided to ignore those instructions given during the "training" and ran after someone that he deemed "suspicious" with a loaded gun on his hip. Makes no sense to me at all and just proves to me that Zimmerman decided to do exactly what he wanted to do no matter what anyone told him.

MOO

Exactly! And lets not forget that he had made plenty of calls prior to that night where he followed the rules and directions of the neighborhood watch perfectly. What changed that night? Had he been in a fight with his wife prior to going out and was maybe a little on edge already prior to seeing TM? Something snapped that night. So sad.

 

[Sonya610]

You are not reading what I am saying.
Yes I have fired multiple weapons including a 9mm.
You have video showing significant recoil just from strong men, strongly holding with TWO hands, out stretched in proper position with no resistance or interference.

That is not how the gun was shot in this case. It would have recoiled, without having a second hand to help stabilize it and with the barrel flipping up and back into Zimmerman's face with force enough to cause those injuries.

From a 9mm??? No. I am a thin and physically wimpy 126 lb female, I have no problem whatsoever with a 9mm. Just last week I was target practicing at a friends house with my two 9mms, and also trying out her husbands .40 and .45 cal Glocks (all semi-autos).

NONE had serious recoil. Worse case scenario if he was holding the gun with one hand and it kicked back a LITTLE it might jam as he absorbed a bit too much of the recoil. But there is no way it would fly back and hit him in the face. Trust me if that were possible there would be a bazillion youtube videos showing people getting smacked in the face when they fired handguns.

It simply does NOT happen. When grown men have a problem with the barrel moving up slightly that is really only an issue because it requires them to keep re-aiming. I was afraid of that happening to me so I avoided buying a 40 cal, then when I finally shot one I realized my concerns were silly. They aren't that bad at all (at least heavy well made weapons aren't, light smaller guns do kick a tiny bit more).

Now shotguns yeah, they will kick like a mule. Totally different situation.

IMO.

 

[marlap]

Chicky, you know I love you... but it is NOT a fact that George had LE tell him not to follow....911 who are not LE told him ..." we dont need you to do that".. 911 is not LE...
Love ya !


All posts are MOO

I love you too cubbeegirl :blowkiss:

You're right...911 is not technically LE! I just think of leas the ones coming.

But I did say he chose not to follow their suggestion, not that he ignored what they told him to do.

Can't wait to get back to mutually fussing at JA...

 

[logicalgirl]

HLN....Showing Deedee again...total disrespect for court. IMO

It's worse on CNN - O'Mara has been droning on with Martin Savage for at least two hours or it feels like it.

LOL - when asked about the Misspeak about hiding money at the bail hearing - MOM said when he asked GZ a couple of days later about the money -GZ was completely honest with him and showed him where it was.

M'OM said GZ had to leave his home and his job - maybe he "just wanted to hold a bit of the money back. Wow - now he is saying Rachael just plain lied.

I amazed at O'Mara's stamina - I would think he'd be exhausted with all this whitewashing he's trying to do.

IMO

 

[Overuled]

The 4 minutes is what it is...4 minutes. TM might have been smoking a joint, pulling weeds, talking on the phone. I would have to admit since he was a teenager, I am sure he was curious as to what GZ was up to. Did GZ raise the hair up on his back? I am sure. Kids don't like to be shadowed by adults without knowing what is going on.
"Hello sir! My name is George and I would like to introduce myself. I live here and just wanted to say hello if you need any help."
Communication is everything. IMO

You are 100% right about this but it didn't happen that way. For what ever reason this young man attacked gz and punched him and cracked his head up on the sidewalk- gz stuggles and yells for help- then stuggles to get loose- then the fatal shot.

I am only going by the testimony because you and I weren't there. Its the testimony only. If they both had stayed home that night we wouldn't be having this chat. Or if gz had stayed in his vehicle or if tm had got home before gz saw him.

I don't believe I would have introduced myself at night to anyone unless I was LE. Then I don't know the rules of the community watch. If you know them please fill us in.

moo

 

[PaperDoll]

Exactly! And lets not forget that he had made plenty of calls prior to that night where he followed the rules and directions of the neighborhood watch perfectly. What changed that night? Had he been in a fight with his wife prior to going out and was maybe a little on edge already prior to seeing TM? Something snapped that night. So sad.

IIRC there was another NE call GZ made prior to this night where I think he wanted to follow the "suspect" and his wife told him not to, and he asked why? I don't have the link or anything but I thought I heard something like that. So, he does seem to "get involved" maybe a bit too much so. :twocents: