IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #34

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It is reasonable to suspect a Michael Devlin-type abduction; whereas he manipulated/used someone close to the same age to coerce/abduct his next victim.

Stranger abduction teachings are typically adults preying on the child. I don't think a victim would be so guarded around others that are close in age (JMO).
 
o/t question -
Do you have to hit refresh in order for some of the posts to accept a "thanks"

Sometimes it happens to me. It's been running a bit slower I noticed for me on a speedy new 'puter. Bummer...
 
It is reasonable to suspect a Michael Devlin-type abduction; whereas he manipulated/used someone close to the same age to coerce/abduct his next victim.

Stranger abduction teachings are typically adults preying on the child. I don't think a victim would be so guarded around others that are close in age (JMO).

I agree.

I also keep thinking about the reason why some perps choose young or elderly or disabled people to target: because they are probably weaker and easier for that particular perp to control. The rule of thumb is that such perps tend to be relatively young and/or inexperienced although there are certainly exceptions.

I wonder if there is a parent out there who noticed that their son apparently lost a T-shirt and pair of jeans at some point after 13 July 2012. What this case needs is someone who has some small bit of information like that finally making a tentative connection and calling it in.
 
As threecrazykids pointed out, Drew and Heather did pretty much the same thing: they left their home for a secret location so they could get some sleep.

Hey, maybe Heather and Drew also went to a hotel... how fishy is that?

Not to mention that everyone seemed to know where Misty and Dan were...but Heather and Drew went to an "UNDISCLOSED location"...how fishy is THAT?! ;)
 
It isn't just that they spent time together and found sympathy and comfort by being near each other. They left their local homes and ran off to a local hotel together. I can see setting up a command center together, or hanging out at the police station together. But fleeing to a hotel room?! That is weird.

It's weird not only because they went to a hotel, but also because they were FLEEING. They needed to go somewhere away from the prying eyes of the media and the listening ears of the police.

If my kid were missing I would either be AT the police station, or at home sitting right next to my phone. I'd tell LE and media anything they needed to know to help find my kid. But these two wanted to hide. THAT is über fishy.

Can I ask you - just how much information did YOU aquire from Heather and Drew during the initial days/weeks of this nightmare? I've clearly missed all of the interviews and information provided from Heather and Drew in those initial days.


You claim that you'd be on LE's doorstep, in the face of the media etc. providing all the information you could and that is EXACTLY what Misty and Dan did...going as far as contacting John Walsh begging to get him involved, making posters, actually SEARCHING on foot for the girls.

Yet you find no suspicions whatsoever with Heather and Drew doing the exact OPPOSITE of what you believe you would do as a parent. :waitasec:

You may believe that Aunt T is a windbag (and I won't disagree with ya on that)...but if we removed her, Misty, Wylma, and Dan from the equation as far as information tell me how much info you'd be left with.

The only reason we can pick apart Dan, Misty, Tammy and Wylma is because they GAVE us the information to chew on. Can't dissect Heather and Drew's stories because you didn't GET their whereabouts until after Tammy told MSM where/what Heather and Drew were doing that day - and I can only assume that information is hearsay considering Tammy wasn't with either one of them to validate their whereabouts.
 
Re: The Thanks Button
It is one of those newfangled buttons where it updates without totally refreshing the page. It has nothing to do with your computers and everything to do with internet speeds and server performance on WS's end.

Re: White boxy vehicles
I think it was Grainne Dhu who a long time ago talked about why white vans and trucks are so common as they are popular fleet vehicles that when traded in for upgrades are then sold off cheap.
 
Can I ask you - just how much information did YOU aquire from Heather and Drew during the initial days/weeks of this nightmare? I've clearly missed all of the interviews and information provided from Heather and Drew in those initial days.


You claim that you'd be on LE's doorstep, in the face of the media etc. providing all the information you could and that is EXACTLY what Misty and Dan did...going as far as contacting John Walsh begging to get him involved, making posters, actually SEARCHING on foot for the girls.

Yet you find no suspicions whatsoever with Heather and Drew doing the exact OPPOSITE of what you believe you would do as a parent. :waitasec:

You may believe that Aunt T is a windbag (and I won't disagree with ya on that)...but if we removed her, Misty, Wylma, and Dan from the equation as far as information tell me how much info you'd be left with.

The only reason we can pick apart Dan, Misty, Tammy and Wylma is because they GAVE us the information to chew on. Can't dissect Heather and Drew's stories because you didn't GET their whereabouts until after Tammy told MSM where/what Heather and Drew were doing that day - and I can only assume that information is hearsay considering Tammy wasn't with either one of them to validate their whereabouts.

In fairness, Heather was the very first person to go to the police. While Misty, Tammy and Wylma were driving around, Heather went straight to the police station to report the girls missing.

You are correct though -- at first Heather and Drew didn't do as many media interviews. I always thought that was because maybe they had been asked not to. I assumed maybe Misty and Dan just didn't listen to LE and did them anyway. Don't get me wrong, I am not a Heather fan. For the millions of reasons previously discussed, I find her behavior distasteful and self serving. But that's just my opinion based on my own personal distrust of fanatically religious people.

I do know though that Heather and Drew were much more involved with LE than Misty and Dan. Remember those early days when the command center was at the school? They were always there. Misty and Dan were rarely there. They were doing interviews instead.

None of them look good, in my opinion. To me, if someone doesn't act like John Walsh or Beth Halloway -- an open book with both media and LE -- they look fishy. Throw in meth manufacturing and distribution, and I don't trust their character one bit.
 
Because so many of them are used as work or fleet vehicles, there's a lot of them on the used market. And because they typically have high mileage on them, they are cheap even for used vehicles.

If you want a vehicle that you anticipate having to ditch at some point, I'd think you'd want a cheap vehicle.

That's really interesting and totally makes sense. Thanks!!
 
Not to mention that everyone seemed to know where Misty and Dan were...but Heather and Drew went to an "UNDISCLOSED location"...how fishy is THAT?! ;)

Nobody knew where Misty and Dan were (except Tammy). The FBI was obviously following them, and watching them closely, because they busted in on them at the hotel. But until it became public that there was an FBI raid on their hotel room -- nobody knew they were there.

Heather and Drew's location was undisclosed to the public/media, but I can almost guarantee that LE knew exactly where they were. We have dozens of statements from LE saying how cooperative those 2 were.

Misty and Dan on the other hand, lawyered up and stopped cooperating after the FBI raid on their hotel room. We have dozens of media articles quoting police saying how UNCOOPERATIVE Misty and Dan were.

Again -- I don't trust any of the 4 of them at all. But I just want to make sure we are accurately recalling what happened.
 
But in the myers lake new case who is missing; and why hasn't a child been reported missing? *maybe I missed something*
 
Not to be contradictory, but according to Wylma she was out looking for the girls beginning at 12:30. According to Heather, she came home at 12:00 and was not concerned until about 1:00 and went out in her car at 1:20. So, even though Heather is the one that went to make the report, she was not the first member of the family to become concerned and to go out and look for them.

Also, LE said that they needed 100% cooperation from the family, but I do not recall anything that LE stated publicly saying that Misty and Dan were not cooperating. So, when it is said that there are dozens of reports that Dan and Misty were uncooperative, those reports were based on assumption, as far as I can tell, from anything directly said by LE. The focus on Dan and Misty initially was biased due to their histories, which is to be expected. It would not be unreasonable for them to be upset that they were barged in on in the first place and interrogated. I hope they had a warrant. Neither one was arrested on suspicion of murder. They had the right to leave, but they didn't. They cooperated. They took polygraphs. Did the other parents both take polygraphs? If Misty and Dan wanted to flee, they would have left town and the state altogether. MOO
 
Not to be contradictory, but according to Wylma she was out looking for the girls beginning at 12:30. According to Heather, she came home at 12:00 and was not concerned until about 1:00 and went out in her car at 1:20. So, even though Heather is the one that went to make the report, she was not the first member of the family to become concerned and to go out and look for them.

Also, LE said that they needed 100% cooperation from the family, but I do not recall anything that LE stated publicly saying that Misty and Dan were not cooperating. So, when it is said that there are dozens of reports that Dan and Misty were uncooperative, those reports were based on assumption, as far as I can tell, from anything directly said by LE. The focus on Dan and Misty initially was biased due to their histories, which is to be expected. It would not be unreasonable for them to be upset that they were barged in on in the first place and interrogated. I hope they had a warrant. Neither one was arrested on suspicion of murder. They had the right to leave, but they didn't. They cooperated. They took polygraphs. Did the other parents both take polygraphs? If Misty and Dan wanted to flee, they would have left town and the state altogether. MOO

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_1b99fc98-d296-11e1-b0a4-0019bb2963f4.html

"Authorities said Thursday that Morrissey and his wife have stopped cooperating with the investigation. Black Hawk County Chief Deputy Rick Abben says he’s not sure why they’ve taken that approach, but they aren’t considered suspects."
 
As threecrazykids pointed out, Drew and Heather did pretty much the same thing: they left their home for a secret location so they could get some sleep.

Hey, maybe Heather and Drew also went to a hotel... how fishy is that?

I don't get the hotel thing at all - even if both families did it... but maybe it was more b/c friends were coming over and such...

There is a difference with Drew/Heather - they are MARRIED - and were not going through a divorce with a restraining order.

If I had been assaulted by someone who I was threatened enough by to press domestic abuse charges, no way in heck would I be in a hotel room alone with him!

Additionally... it was also announced around that same time - by the LE - that the other family members WERE cooperating with police... so, that would be safe to assume the cops knew where to find them all... Only Misty and Dan have been reported to not cooperate for a period of time.

I think you are comparing apples to oranges.
 
Nobody knew where Misty and Dan were (except Tammy). The FBI was obviously following them, and watching them closely, because they busted in on them at the hotel. But until it became public that there was an FBI raid on their hotel room -- nobody knew they were there.

Heather and Drew's location was undisclosed to the public/media, but I can almost guarantee that LE knew exactly where they were. We have dozens of statements from LE saying how cooperative those 2 were.

Misty and Dan on the other hand, lawyered up and stopped cooperating after the FBI raid on their hotel room. We have dozens of media articles quoting police saying how UNCOOPERATIVE Misty and Dan were.

Again -- I don't trust any of the 4 of them at all. But I just want to make sure we are accurately recalling what happened.

1. No one knew where they were? Tammy knew where both Misty and Dan were as well as where Heather and Drew were. As I'm sure Wylma knew where they were too. I don't doubt that LE knew exactly where BOTH sets of parents were, that would be quite questionable if they didn't, especially if any information (such as they were found) would need to be relayed.

Whether LE chose to "follow" Dan and Misty or if something came up that caused LE barge in on them, I PERSONALLY feel that they were putting the heat on what seemed to be a likely source of information - given their pasts. I don't blame them from lawyering up. They felt they were being wrongly accused and once LE agreed to back off Smock stated they were ALL cooperating.

2. Can you link to me where it is stated by LE that Drew and Heather were being cooperative? Just one link is fine...not the dozens you mention.

I agree with you - none of their behavior is necessarily "stellar" - but I am simply trying to gauge and comment on their behavior in relation to how I would expect a parent to act in this situation...not point fingers at guilt.

I am with you - I'd be beating down the doors of every house, in the face of media doing interviews, posters, on foot, standing on the steps of the police station or command center every day. I saw Misty and Dan, Wylma, and yes even Tammy behaving as desperate family members would.

I can't even remotely relate to Heather or Drews behavior. No on foot searches, no media interviews until WELL into the week following their disappearance. No real solid timeline from the mouths of either one of them. Doing interviews a week later claiming I've forgiven whoever did this, and praying for them...and by the way I don't want to know who you are or what you did.

You said you assumed that the reason they didn't do interviews with the media is because LE asked them not to and Misty and Dan did it anyway. That's your fair assumption. My assumption is that they didn't because they were better off NOT to be on the record of their version of the story.

Misty couldn't have been out searching - she was at work. She didn't know anything about the girls missing until Wylma called and told her, so I see no reason to fault her for that.
Heather didn't worry about it when she got home even after Wylma and Heather's son had already been out looking for the girls and couldn't find them. Drew was also home and he didn't go out either. They sent the son BACK out again (the first ride around was with Wylma) and then when he came back again, Heather finally went out looking while Wylma and Tammy had left (assuming the girls had just run off and would be found).

Drew called Wylma and Tammy back - and Wylma and Tammy went out again. Heather's story of "I went straight to the police" is not true, period. Her son had been out looking (twice) - and so had Wylma. When she drove around herself and realized they weren't in the immediate area she drove to the police station.

Again...I'm looking only at behaviors - if Misty and Dan had behaved like Heather and Drew I would question that as well. It's not about WHO did the behavior for me as much as the behavior itself that bothers me.
 
I don't get the hotel thing at all - even if both families did it... but maybe it was more b/c friends were coming over and such...

There is a difference with Drew/Heather - they are MARRIED - and were not going through a divorce with a restraining order.

If I had been assaulted by someone who I was threatened enough by to press domestic abuse charges, no way in heck would I be in a hotel room alone with him!

Additionally... it was also announced around that same time - by the LE - that the other family members WERE cooperating with police... so, that would be safe to assume the cops knew where to find them all... Only Misty and Dan have been reported to not cooperate for a period of time.

I think you are comparing apples to oranges.

I don't think it's comparing apples to oranges. No one said that Dan and Misty were even in the same hotel room. All they said was that LE came banging down the door questioning Dan. Tammy (surprise! :floorlaugh:) shared that info. Again...hearsay.

I truly think that Dan and Misty came together as one for the benefit of their daughter, just as Heather and Drew did. I think it was "assault charges be damned" (and not to mention, they actually had gone through LEGAL steps to have the restraining order revised to allow them together during this) they were going to rise above their nasty pasts and do what they could TOGETHER to find their daughter.

They weren't together before (only mention of phone calls when Misty called Dan while Lyric went missing the week prior) and they weren't together after - so I think they were just coming together for a joint effort. Makes it a hell of a lot easier on LE too.

Plus...I don't blame them for ALWAYS wanting to have people around them. That way there wouldn't be any time whatsoever that they were unaccounted for. If LE had been questioning me for hours, did polys and had been accused of having info, I personally wouldn't be left alone for one second because you know damn good and well LE would use it against you as an "opportunity to cover up your tracks".
 
1. No one knew where they were? Tammy knew where both Misty and Dan were as well as where Heather and Drew were. As I'm sure Wylma knew where they were too. I don't doubt that LE knew exactly where BOTH sets of parents were, that would be quite questionable if they didn't, especially if any information (such as they were found) would need to be relayed.

Whether LE chose to "follow" Dan and Misty or if something came up that caused LE barge in on them, I PERSONALLY feel that they were putting the heat on what seemed to be a likely source of information - given their pasts. I don't blame them from lawyering up. They felt they were being wrongly accused and once LE agreed to back off Smock stated they were ALL cooperating.

2. Can you link to me where it is stated by LE that Drew and Heather were being cooperative? Just one link is fine...not the dozens you mention.

I agree with you - none of their behavior is necessarily "stellar" - but I am simply trying to gauge and comment on their behavior in relation to how I would expect a parent to act in this situation...not point fingers at guilt.

I am with you - I'd be beating down the doors of every house, in the face of media doing interviews, posters, on foot, standing on the steps of the police station or command center every day. I saw Misty and Dan, Wylma, and yes even Tammy behaving as desperate family members would.

I can't even remotely relate to Heather or Drews behavior. No on foot searches, no media interviews until WELL into the week following their disappearance. No real solid timeline from the mouths of either one of them. Doing interviews a week later claiming I've forgiven whoever did this, and praying for them...and by the way I don't want to know who you are or what you did.

You said you assumed that the reason they didn't do interviews with the media is because LE asked them not to and Misty and Dan did it anyway. That's your fair assumption. My assumption is that they didn't because they were better off NOT to be on the record of their version of the story.

Misty couldn't have been out searching - she was at work. She didn't know anything about the girls missing until Wylma called and told her, so I see no reason to fault her for that.
Heather didn't worry about it when she got home even after Wylma and Heather's son had already been out looking for the girls and couldn't find them. Drew was also home and he didn't go out either. They sent the son BACK out again (the first ride around was with Wylma) and then when he came back again, Heather finally went out looking while Wylma and Tammy had left (assuming the girls had just run off and would be found).

Drew called Wylma and Tammy back - and Wylma and Tammy went out again. Heather's story of "I went straight to the police" is not true, period. Her son had been out looking (twice) - and so had Wylma. When she drove around herself and realized they weren't in the immediate area she drove to the police station.

Again...I'm looking only at behaviors - if Misty and Dan had behaved like Heather and Drew I would question that as well. It's not about WHO did the behavior for me as much as the behavior itself that bothers me.

The police said they needed 100% family cooperation (I think Janie quoted above)... and then pointed out the morrissey's had not been. If the Collins were not cooperating, then they would have been called out on it as well at this point.

On the foot searches - I went to the fire station several times - every time I was there 1 of the Collins' were there. I'm sure 1 of them wanted to stay with the other kids too... I don't blame them for not out on foot - they were turning away volunteers. As a mother, I don't think I personally could walk under such grief - I would be at the police/fire station waiting for updates and/or at my home with my other kids right by the phone... crying.

However, I do understand each parent grieves differently... if in fact, Misty/Dan were out searching and not sitting crying as I would be - I do not fault them either. Every time I saw Misty/Dan they were at the park doing interviews... and I don't know taht that was bad either - the word needed to get out... If I could keep composure,I'd do interviews and tell the S"OB to bring my kid back! I'm not as concerned with their actions right the first 2 days or so - each person handles things differently.
 
The police said they needed 100% family cooperation (I think Janie quoted above)... and then pointed out the morrissey's had not been. If the Collins were not cooperating, then they would have been called out on it as well at this point.

On the foot searches - I went to the fire station several times - every time I was there 1 of the Collins' were there. I'm sure 1 of them wanted to stay with the other kids too... I don't blame them for not out on foot - they were turning away volunteers. As a mother, I don't think I personally could walk under such grief - I would be at the police/fire station waiting for updates and/or at my home with my other kids right by the phone... crying.

However, I do understand each parent grieves differently... if in fact, Misty/Dan were out searching and not sitting crying as I would be - I do not fault them either. Every time I saw Misty/Dan they were at the park doing interviews... and I don't know taht that was bad either - the word needed to get out... If I could keep composure,I'd do interviews and tell the S"OB to bring my kid back! I'm not as concerned with their actions right the first 2 days or so - each person handles things differently.

Thank you for sharing that. It is good to hear from someone who was actually THERE to witness behaviors during the initial days. :seeya:

I don't disagree with you on the foot searches now that you mention it. As a mother, I'm not sure I'd be out walking fields, searching ditches either. :( But I really think my husband would...I really do. I think he'd be frantically out looking, even if it meant the worst...but I don't know that I could. I'd want to do whatever I could to get the word out, so I guess that is why I relate to Misty and Tammy's behavior the most. I would be doing every interview I could to keep me busy and get the word out and beg and plead to anyone who would listen.

Sadly, I just can't relate to Heather. I want to understand her behavior, but it's just not how I PERSONALLY would act, so I struggle with it. I don't think I could just stand around at the fire station handing out water or food or whatever. I would have to feel like I was contributing in some way - showing effort in an attempt to find them.

I'm sure because you are right there in town you've got different perspectives. I'm local - not as close as you (Cedar Rapids area) but it's all hit way too close to home for me. :( I did however go to 7 Bridges and take videos just to show members what the area looked like, and it was emotionally draining. I had planned to get back there around the July timeframe to show the overgrowth of where they were found etc. but have not yet found one dang day to do it! :(
 
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