PA PA - Bedford, 'Mr. Bones' WhtMale 30-35, 585UMPA, 30-06 rifle, gold dental wk, camping equip, Oct'58

Fishman15 states: "At first I was puzzled with so much ammo left at the scene but if Mr. B was in fact killed and then dumped there it makes sense that the killer would dump the gun there and all ammo he had linking him to the gun as well."

What you say is true about Law Enforcement having less to go on when it comes to tracing shotguns and rifles. Don't hold your breath waiting for them to recover your shotguns and seek you out to return them!

In regard to the large amount of ammunition left at the scene, I feel that there could be a number of explanations. One being, as you state, that a murderer wanted to get rid of any and all connection to that rifle.

Another explanation might be that "Mr. Bones" had moved out of a long time residence and was transporting his own rifle and all his ammunition along with it. Or maybe that he had left the rifle and ammunition with a family member or friend and had recently picked it up and was transporting it.

Another explanation might be that he had just inherited the rifle and ammo or purchased the lot from someone. Unfortunately the story about his death, the rifle and the ammo probably did not get out wide enough to get anyone's attention. Again, an indication that Mr. Bones was a long distance from any friends, family, or acquaintances.

No hunter would go out on a short hunt with such a vast amount of ammo. And Mr. Bones was neither dressed or equipped for hunting. In fact, the time of year that he most likely died would have been in spring rather than in fall during hunting season.

If Mr. Bones was a competative rifle shooter, he might travel with a lot of ammunition, but he would have had other equipment and clothing with him which are used in that sport. And there is no indication that the ammunition was "Match" quality. Certainly the rifle was not of the type used in most rifle matches.

More information about the rifle and ammunition might yet bring forth some useful clues.

Because it leaves such a large wound, it might have been used by a killer to obliterate another type of wound, such as blunt trauma to the head, a pistol wound or knife wound. This would be in the hope that LE would focus on the rifle only.

Using a rifle to commit suicide is certainly effective, but not physically easy. The trigger has to be pulled or pushed with a stick, a branch, or a toe, since the barrel and action would be longer than a person's arm. This is where "in situ" photos taken at the scene would be helpful in making a determination.
 
A story will be published in the newspaper of PMB's hometown next week in an appeal for male line descendants of male siblings to come forth to have their DNA tested vs Mr. Bones. At that time we will be able to freely discuss PMB's identity on this board. I value the input you all can provide. The missing persons unit of the AG's office is aware of the potential match between PMB and Mr. B. (I have been working with them since early this year) and contact info will be included in the article.

Richard, you may be spot on when you speculate that the rifle may have been used to obliterate another wound. I believe that to be true.
 
subscribing


GOOD WORK everyone! Fascinating case... I sure hope the ID comes through for him.
 
subscribing


GOOD WORK everyone! Fascinating case... I sure hope the ID comes through for him.

Thanks Tracy, but bear in mind it is not a slam dunk just yet. I think I have our man but we don't know.....until we know.
I just got word that a story will run tomorrow in the Johnstown Tribune-Democrat, by the same reporter who did the 2007 story back when the DA prevented the sheriff from burying the remains. I understand that Pennsylvania LE has now requested that the case be formally reopened, which will mean that DNA can be tested.

We can discuss this all in greater detail in 24 hours once the story is published.
 
The story ran in the Johnstown Tribune-Democrat today.

I believe that Mr. Bones was Charles Conner of Lima, Ohio.

We hope that the story will lead male line descendants of full brothers to come forward to be tested by the Ohio AG's office. I could go no further without it.
Googling the " Ralph Forsythe Bodiless Murder Trial " will tell you a good bit about it. It was quite a sensation in Lima at the time.
Essentially, Forsythe shot Chuck Conner during a drunken celebration in August 1957 and dumped the body .......somewhere. It was never found. The timeline does permit Conner to have been transported to Bedford.
By the time Mr. Bones was found in October 1958, no one was looking for Chuck Conner and Ralph Forsythe was in prison for the killing. He got out on appeal after ten years and died in the 1980s.
We may never be able to prove the identity, but if Conner's dental records show up - he was a union painter and may have had dental benefits at some point - well, that would be a good Christmas present. More IDs are made by dentals than DNA.
CarlK did a great video overlay of Conner and Mr. B that was an 'aha' moment. I will post it here later.
Joe Bowsher, a Lima detective, made sure the files were microfilmed and saved in the Allen County Museum when he retired. I'd have had nothing to go on if he hadn't.
 
Just tossing in my 2 cents worth...

Wasn't Mr. Bones shot in the back of the head? I seem the recall this as item of discussion in regard to the possibility of a suicide.

How could someone have carried Mr. Bones to the location where he was found? Again, as I recall, the area was some half a mile from the turnpike in a brushy, swampy area (being cleared by a local utility). This would indicate to me that there are no other roads nearby (or weren't at the time). Add to that the weight of the items found with him-the camping gear, the rifle and ammo, the books-Mr. Bones would have almost certainly have to have been driven by way of some motorized conveyance to the location where he was found.
 
Wow! I used to live in Allen County and never heard of this case. I will have to check it out. That definitely would be a long drive. I will have to read up on this.
 
Just tossing in my 2 cents worth...

Wasn't Mr. Bones shot in the back of the head? I seem the recall this as item of discussion in regard to the possibility of a suicide.

How could someone have carried Mr. Bones to the location where he was found? Again, as I recall, the area was some half a mile from the turnpike in a brushy, swampy area (being cleared by a local utility). This would indicate to me that there are no other roads nearby (or weren't at the time). Add to that the weight of the items found with him-the camping gear, the rifle and ammo, the books-Mr. Bones would have almost certainly have to have been driven by way of some motorized conveyance to the location where he was found.

Shadow, thanks so much for posting the link.

No one would ever tell me details of Mr. Bones's head wound. However, if the wound was in the back of the head, one can infer that they would have thrown suicide out as a mode of death.
There are farm roads relatively close to the body's location. He was a big man and it must have been quite a task.I have ideas about who might have helped but no one will ever know at this point. All are beyond earthly justice now and no one talked.
The turnpike was a location reference, I don't anyone ever seriously thought a body was unloaded there and dragged a half mile.
The coordinates are on one of the missing person sites, I forget which one.
 
Throwing this up here. Don't know if it helps or not. It's the Ohio decision reversing his conviction based on pre-trial publicity. I'm posting it only because it lists point by point the articles that covered the case and the dates they ran. Don't know if the Lima News has a digital archive or not, pretty sure that the Citizen has been defunct for some time. But if someone wants to get nutty with microfiche maybe there is some mention of a relative's name somewhere in one of the articles?
 
Throwing this up here. Don't know if it helps or not. It's the Ohio decision reversing his conviction based on pre-trial publicity. I'm posting it only because it lists point by point the articles that covered the case and the dates they ran. Don't know if the Lima News has a digital archive or not, pretty sure that the Citizen has been defunct for some time. But if someone wants to get nutty with microfiche maybe there is some mention of a relative's name somewhere in one of the articles?

Hi Irish,

Already went nutty with microfiche, you're too late!

I can't go into detail but we have a good genealogy of Charles Conner. There are suitable relatives, but by Websleuths rules, under no conditions may we contact them. That's not our function. When the story runs in Lima, I hope they call the AG in Ohio, to whom I gave the info to some time ago.

If they don't wish to be tested no one can compel them to do so.
 
My regular computer is on the fritz or I would post a side by side of Chuck Conner and Mr. B., and a link to the video that Carl did. Carl has known about Charles Conner since last spring, as have a few others I have bounced ideas off of.

Carl, if you saved that link can you post it?

Coordinates of the discovery site I think are 40-02-14N, 78-29-37W. This is in a wooded low area in a field near Camp Chalybeate Rd. You can Google Earth it. If anyone is from the Bedford area, I'd like to know what Camp Chalybeate was. If it was a CCC or WPA camp, it may be that Forsythe had some connection to it. Or it just looked like a likely place to put a body. Or Mr. Bones is not Charles Conner at all......we just don't know yet.

Richard, I directly asked someone about the barrel code on the rifle today. He did not have it handy. You were right that they didn't even start making them until 1948. I never could determine if the gun the dispute was over was the same as the model Richard determined Mr. Bones's rifle to be. If it were so, that would be circumstantial but significant.

The mysterious man with the rifle in September 1957 may have been unrelated, or by the time anyone remembered the incident, they may have mistaken the month. If it was August instead of September it may well have been Ralph Forsythe, and he got lucky once again. I'd like to see the notes on that incident.

I guess my own identity has been found, too, as it is in the news article. You can call me Ed now if you wish.
 
My regular computer is on the fritz or I would post a side by side of Chuck Conner and Mr. B., and a link to the video that Carl did. Carl has known about Charles Conner since last spring, as have a few others I have bounced ideas off of.

Carl, if you saved that link can you post it?

http://youtu.be/26Y8K7XARqg
 
Hi Irish,

Already went nutty with microfiche, you're too late!

I can't go into detail but we have a good genealogy of Charles Conner. There are suitable relatives, but by Websleuths rules, under no conditions may we contact them. That's not our function. When the story runs in Lima, I hope they call the AG in Ohio, to whom I gave the info to some time ago.

If they don't wish to be tested no one can compel them to do so.

I realized right after I hit reply that I didn't even include the link, but when I tried to include it, my computer froze and I had to restart, and then my mom stopped by....blah, blah, blah...Oh well, glad you already had your "fun with fiche" experience.

The frequent fliers here in this forum are pretty schooled on the rules of WS and also just generally have more respect for families than to go intruding on their lives. Sometimes families make the initiative and contact us here and of course that's always helpful and welcome.

I am so intrigued by what you have found and I'm very interested to see how this turns out.
 
The story ran in the Johnstown Tribune-Democrat today.

I believe that Mr. Bones was Charles Conner of Lima, Ohio.

We hope that the story will lead male line descendants of full brothers to come forward to be tested by the Ohio AG's office. I could go no further without it.
Googling the " Ralph Forsythe Bodiless Murder Trial " will tell you a good bit about it. It was quite a sensation in Lima at the time.
Essentially, Forsythe shot Chuck Conner during a drunken celebration in August 1957 and dumped the body .......somewhere. It was never found. The timeline does permit Conner to have been transported to Bedford.
By the time Mr. Bones was found in October 1958, no one was looking for Chuck Conner and Ralph Forsythe was in prison for the killing. He got out on appeal after ten years and died in the 1980s.
We may never be able to prove the identity, but if Conner's dental records show up - he was a union painter and may have had dental benefits at some point - well, that would be a good Christmas present. More IDs are made by dentals than DNA.
CarlK did a great video overlay of Conner and Mr. B that was an 'aha' moment. I will post it here later.
Joe Bowsher, a Lima detective, made sure the files were microfilmed and saved in the Allen County Museum when he retired. I'd have had nothing to go on if he hadn't.

JAG in DC should also be notified in case he was military in any way. I haven't had time to do a trace or check yet; fascinating case. I'd want to know his military history; did he have one? They will have excellent dental records, if they survived. And; they use gold fillings upon request. I dk if it was upon request in 58.
 
That overlay is pretty darn creepy close! The shape of the nose down to the rivets underneath and the eyebrows. Wow!
 
JAG in DC should also be notified in case he was military in any way. I haven't had time to do a trace or check yet; fascinating case. I'd want to know his military history; did he have one? They will have excellent dental records, if they survived. And; they use gold fillings upon request. I dk if it was upon request in 58.

If you know how to do so, your help is more than welcome. Everyone is pitching in on this one. Anna found nothing in the draft records but he may have served. If he didn't, I'd like to know what he was doing during WWII when everyone did something. He may have worked in a defense job,idk. Conner would have been 21 when we entered the war.

LE told me that experts did not feel that Mr. B's dental work was military but it is an avenue worth exploring.
 
That overlay is pretty darn creepy close! The shape of the nose down to the rivets underneath and the eyebrows. Wow!

Yep. It was a real jawdropper. The differences are the things they guess on, the soft tissue that they don't have.
 
From one of Richard's earliest posts in the thread:

<respectfully snipped> Bedford County: ID still a mystery
Monday, January 26, 2004
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The FBI and state police plan to release a composite drawing of a man whose murder has baffled investigators for four decades.The victim was found at a campsite near the Pennsylvania Turnpike in Bedford County in 1958 with an apparent gunshot wound to the back of the head. Authorities believe he died months or years earlier.
Link:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04026/265865.stm

Unfortunately I can't get the link to work, otherwise I would attempt to contact the reporter and see if it can be determined from where the info came.

I'm certainly no expert on anatomy, but from looking at pictures of human skull structure, I suppose its possible for one to shoot themselves in the mouth and have the bullet exit the back of the skull without other significant bone damage occurring.

I would like to see Mr. Bones identified as much as anyone. When a thought pops into my head, however, I gotta let it out.
 
A brief history of Chalybeate Springs, very near to the area where Mr. Bones was found (in response to Magnum P.E.s inquiry).

From the Chalybeate Springs Ministries website (link below)--"Almost 200 years ago, a man named George Funk purchased from John Penn Jr., a descendant of William Penn, a tract of land northeast of Bedford that became known as “Funk Springs.” It was later changed to “Chalybeate Springs,” taking its name from three ever-flowing springs, the most celebrated of the three being the Chalybeate or Iron Spring.
As early as 1825, this spring began to acquire a national reputation for the medicinal properties of its water, which was barreled and sent to many parts of the country. In the period of 1880-1900, a salve made from the sediment of the spring was highly recommended for cure of skin diseases. As late as 1908, the hotel brochure read: “The Chalybeate waters are unsurpassed for their curative powers in ailments of the stomach, liver, and kidneys.”
It is known that Indians camped at these springs as many arrowheads have been found in the adjacent area. In 1786, Mr. Funk built a house where he operated a tavern. More was added to this first building as time went by. The bricks were made on the property: the walls were put together with a clay-type mortar. The hotel still stands and is in use 184 years after its erection. In the early days it was a comfortable haven where men and horses could refresh themselves, for the main road passed close by at that time.
Chalybeate Springs Hotel was built in 1851 and was a health resort and spa in the 19th and early 20th Century. It was once a 56 room complex, situated adjacent to a series of three springs: one, an iron impregnated (with chalybeate) spring; another, a sweet water spring; and the third, a limestone spring." http://chalybeatesprings.org/history-of-chalybeate-springs/

This certainly adds an interesting note as to why Mr. Bones may have been in the area (if he wound up there on his own).
 

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