Who was George Brody?- Part 2.

[Cubby]

raf and Amy,

I'm a little confused too. Trying to clarify to make sure we're all understanding correctly:

raf, are you asking Amy to post the declaration of intention?

By your concern, do you mean the 1940 census is left empty/blank for year of immigration for Brody and that nothing is filled in for the year of immigration? That no column exists for year of immigration on the 1940 census? or that it is cut off from the copy you viewed?

I hope that isn't too jumbled and understandable. (Haven't had enough coffee yet!)

thanks!

 

[Annasmom]

Raf,
I'm very tired and not really following all of this well tonight. lol. I am attaching an image of the census page with "Seo J Brady' that I found matching the voter registration info. I don't think that the 1940 census recorded immigration year, though. If this doesn't work or is unreadable, PM me your email and I will send it to you directly to see if it is the same one you are talking about.

Amy

It's difficult to read, but this census sheet looks to me as if there are two George J. Brody(s) listed, one born in Russia with occupation listed as laborer, the other born in California with occupation listed as "cooper" (barrel-maker). By the way, that is definitely a cursive "G" and not an "S" on the name. This is a truly amazing discovery, Raf and Amy. I hadn't realized how amazing until now.

 

[Amy74]

Raf,
I understand now. I did not realize that you had already found this information. Sorry, I'm not trying to take credit for what you had already done, especially considering the amount of time a manual search takes (that's how I found it, too). As far as the immigration year, you are correct,and I mis-typed; the immigration year is not on the 1940 census, only on the Declaration and also on a 1930 Census form for a "George Brody/Brady" in Mass. that I may have confused with this one. Sorry for the confusion and good luck with your continued search.

Amy

Amy,
as I said the 1940 census that you found , it is the same that I found( by hand search) and I posted here some month ago.
My concern is abt the immigration year that you said 1921.. but on 1940 census are not the immigration column ...

thanks a lot,
raf

 

[Cubby]

It's difficult to read, but this census sheet looks to me as if there are two George J. Brody(s) listed, one born in Russia with occupation listed as laborer, the other born in California with occupation listed as "cooper" (barrel-maker). By the way, that is definitely a cursive "G" and not an "S" on the name. This is a truly amazing discovery, Raf and Amy. I hadn't realized how amazing until now.

Hmm. I hadn't noticed this either.

While it is difficult to read, is it just me or are the two George Brody's on the census next to each other?

Why would they be on the list next to each other in order?

I'm not familiar with the census forms, and which order they are written. Are they taken in address order? If so, I'd almost think our GB took on his neighbors name?

Or am I missing something here? What are the odds two non related GB's would be listed next to each other on a census?

As odd as our GB was, it wouldn't surprise me to learn he took on a neighbors name/identity. Especially in a time when identity theft wasn't the problem it is today. It almost sounds like something our GB could 'blend' into easily to become someone else. Especially if our GB admired the California born GB who was the cooper.

 

[raf]

Cubby:
I know that not immigration year column in 1940 census.. that is sure.

-I my first reply to Amy, I asked where she read the immigration year of GB in 1940 census :

Originally Posted by Amy74
I have located census records for a Geo J Brody, erroneously transcribed as "Seo J Brady". This person lived on 12th St in Oakland in 1940, this matched voter registrations previously discussed here. The voter registrations are for a George Brody who is listed as a "Jr Research Asst". The census lists this persons occupation as Construction;Place of Birth as Russia, Year of Birth 1905; Year of immigration 1921.

I asked abt that because the 1940 census have not the immigration year column... this column is in the previous censuses but no in 1940 census....

-And I also asked abt declaration of intention abt Josef Wachbroit; Amy wrote:

I have extensively searched immigration and naturalization records and found a Josef Wachbroit, born in Russia 1905, immigrated to US 1921. Josef changed his name to George Brody sometime between 1921 an his Declaration of Intention on Sept 14, 1923.

that is all.... just for to read abt this Josef ;
I know that Josef had brown eyes and our GB had blue eyes .... so cannot be our GB..
all the best,
raf

 

[Amy74]

The cooper's name is actually Geo J Brown.

It's difficult to read, but this census sheet looks to me as if there are two George J. Brody(s) listed, one born in Russia with occupation listed as laborer, the other born in California with occupation listed as "cooper" (barrel-maker). By the way, that is definitely a cursive "G" and not an "S" on the name. This is a truly amazing discovery, Raf and Amy. I hadn't realized how amazing until now.

 

[raf]

thanks Amy!
raf

 

[Tamerlan]

Please accept my apologies for my English, my first language is Russian. I just wanted to add some details regarding the possible Russian origins of GB.
There is a tiny town of Brody in Western Ukraine, located right on the border between the Austrian-Hungarian Empire and Russia.
The city of Grodno is in Belorussia, close to the border between Russia, Poland and Lithuania.
The Jewish families which escaped from Russia in early 20-th century frequently used the names of the places they came from as their surnames.
There is no second name or middle name in Russian, we have patronymics. So the middle initial in Russian name will be the first letter of father's first name. Patronymics are hard to spell and pronounce, so many immigrants just omit them in the new country.
Benedo is not a Russian name. May it be Italian?
The spelling of Brody in Ukrainian is Brodiy. Russian last names that can also be transformed to Brody are Brodin, Brodov, Brodnik, Borodin, Brodovich, Brodnitsky.
Brody - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Grodno - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I realize that these details do not help a lot, but I am happy to contribute.url
My respect to everyone. Your determination is inspiring.
Thank you for reading.

 

[Cubby]

Thank you Tamerlan and welcome to WS! :welcome:

Thank you for your interest in Anna's case.

 

[Firefly75]

Sorry if this has been discussed to infinity - do we know if there's anyone out there who knew Brody personally and who remembers him? Except for Annasmom, of course. I'm curious about what stories (well, lies, probably) he told them. If he was anyone else's guru.

 

[Annasmom]

Sorry if this has been discussed to infinity - do we know if there's anyone out there who knew Brody personally and who remembers him? Except for Annasmom, of course. I'm curious about what stories (well, lies, probably) he told them. If he was anyone else's guru.

I think he was only "guru" to Margaret Kukoda and George Waters. Nobody else GW introduced him to was much interested in him, and one fellow doctor suggested that coronary insufficiency was probably affecting his (GB's) thinking. As you can imagine, GW promptly "severed relations" with that doctor--that was the term GW used when he broke off with former friends. Yes, there are people around who knew GB, but they don't have anything to add to the dialogue. We certainly wish somebody from his past would speak up, but so far we haven't found that person.

 

[Firefly75]

Thank you, Annasmom. Interesting, that bit about coronary insufficiency; inadequate blood supply to (part of) the brain, I suppose. I wish I knew how that can affect behaviour and thought process. Very interesting. I wonder if his delusions of grandeur could have been caused by that rather than some form of mental illness. Incidentally, has GB's behaviour ever been discussed c an expert in psychiatry to see if it pointed at any particular condition?

I am curious when GB's idea that he could be someone's guru came into being. Was dr. Waters his first victim/disciple? I appreciate we can't know that, I wonder if he tried to have a "cult" of followers, seeing as he seemed to be keen to influence that mysterious lady called Seka.

Did GB see any other doctor except for Dr. Waters (for any length of time, before severing relations because they said something he didn't like)? Are there any medical files on him? (Although I fear access to such documents would be denied anyway.)

Those who we know knew GB, did they know him through Dr. Waters or has anyone been identified who knew him independently? What methods have been used to try and identify people from his past?

I'm sorry if I'm asking too many questions and making anyone uncomfortable. If you'd rather I didn't, please do say so.

 

[Firefly75]

Why is this thread tagged with 'joseph j sgroe'? Is this a potential pseudonym of GB?

 

[Annasmom]

Thank you, Annasmom. Interesting, that bit about coronary insufficiency; inadequate blood supply to (part of) the brain, I suppose. I wish I knew how that can affect behaviour and thought process. Very interesting. I wonder if his delusions of grandeur could have been caused by that rather than some form of mental illness. Incidentally, has GB's behaviour ever been discussed c an expert in psychiatry to see if it pointed at any particular condition?

I am curious when GB's idea that he could be someone's guru came into being. Was dr. Waters his first victim/disciple? I appreciate we can't know that, I wonder if he tried to have a "cult" of followers, seeing as he seemed to be keen to influence that mysterious lady called Seka.

Did GB see any other doctor except for Dr. Waters (for any length of time, before severing relations because they said something he didn't like)? Are there any medical files on him? (Although I fear access to such documents would be denied anyway.)

Those who we know knew GB, did they know him through Dr. Waters or has anyone been identified who knew him independently? What methods have been used to try and identify people from his past?

I'm sorry if I'm asking too many questions and making anyone uncomfortable. If you'd rather I didn't, please do say so.

Questions are good. The tag you mentioned (can't see it right now...Joseph something) came, I believe, from an old newspaper story which had Brody's name in it. Somebody punched somebody in the nose. It's on the Forum somewhere. As far as I know, GB never saw a doctor until he became very ill, and then GW took care of him for the most part. I have a hospital record for him, but it doesn't tell anything we don't know. Margaret Kukoda was his first "follower" as far as I know. Seka had some kind of association with him, but it seems to have been broken off rather suddenly. I never heard of anybody who knew GB independently.

As to methods used to try to identify GB, I can't think of anything we HAVEN'T tried.

 

[Firefly75]

Thank you. I vaguely remember the article, but not the names. I think I saw Mr. Sgroe's obit somewhere online the other night.

Do you know where or how Dr. Waters and Brody met? It's interesting how he just materialized on the scene. The man must have a past, but what is it???

Incidentally, and this will surely seem idiotic to people in the US, but what were the consequences of not having an SS number back then? Not being able to get a job? Anything else, like not opening a bank account perhaps? Did one need it to get medical care? What activity would there be on one's SS number? (As you can tell, I'm not from the US.) Did one apply for it or would one have been issued an SS number at birth or at a certain age? What about immigrants and their children? How would they get theirs?

 

[Firefly75]

Supposing Brody had an SS number... Is there a way of finding out which SS numbers stopped having any activity on them at a certain time? (say around his death, give or take a few weeks, if he indeed had and used one)

 

[Annasmom]

Thank you. I vaguely remember the article, but not the names. I think I saw Mr. Sgroe's obit somewhere online the other night.

Do you know where or how Dr. Waters and Brody met? It's interesting how he just materialized on the scene. The man must have a past, but what is it???

Incidentally, and this will surely seem idiotic to people in the US, but what were the consequences of not having an SS number back then? Not being able to get a job? Anything else, like not opening a bank account perhaps? Did one need it to get medical care? What activity would there be on one's SS number? (As you can tell, I'm not from the US.) Did one apply for it or would one have been issued an SS number at birth or at a certain age? What about immigrants and their children? How would they get theirs?

Firefly, sorry I didn't see this post until just now. Dr. Waters was treating MK, Brody's girlfriend, at the hospital; that's how they met.

 

[SherlockJr]

Supposing Brody had an SS number... Is there a way of finding out which SS numbers stopped having any activity on them at a certain time? (say around his death, give or take a few weeks, if he indeed had and used one)

For a small fee, the SSA can send you a copy of a deceased persons Social Security Application. It is supposed to take about 10-20 days to get a response. I sent a request in almost 6 weeks ago for an ancestor of mine and still no response. I called this morning to follow up and left my number, but no call yet.

 

[Firefly75]

Firefly, sorry I didn't see this post until just now. Dr. Waters was treating MK, Brody's girlfriend, at the hospital; that's how they met.

Annasmom, please don't apologize, you've nothing to apologize for! If anything, you answer questions really quickly, and if you didn't, that would be totally understandable; after all, you have the day-to-day life that you need to get on with, and we all know how things sometimes get in the way. I really appreciate your efforts and willingness to answer questions all the time, I know it can be really difficult going through all this over and over. I am especially grateful because I know at least some of the answers to my questions are in your book, but I mislaid it when we moved house and can't find it right now. I know it's somewhere, but I've got so many books and not enough time these days.

 

[Firefly75]

For a small fee, the SSA can send you a copy of a deceased persons Social Security Application. It is supposed to take about 10-20 days to get a response. I sent a request in almost 6 weeks ago for an ancestor of mine and still no response. I called this morning to follow up and left my number, but no call yet.

How interesting! Thank you for letting us know. I'm sorry it's taking them such a long time to respond to you, it must be really frustrating.

So one has to apply for it then?

This triggers more questions:

Did GB have one/did he ever apply for one?
If he did, what name was it in (if GB wasn't actually his name)?

I must look into the whole SS number business in the US in general.